There is no future for an 'apartheid Israel'

[Developereo]

Doesn't the world survive on self-interest ? Russian'sare staunch anti-chech's ... and pakistan is getting closer to russia.. isnt that self interest my friend ?

Of course many people are motivated by self-interest.
All I am doing is asking people to admit it instead of claiming they are representing high ideals or humane principles.

i never said i liked what israel is doing!!i don't like people getting killed but i am merely offering an explanation for their actions.

The Nazis were also doing what the justified necessary actions to save the Aryan race from threat by Jews.

Just because one group of fanatics justifies their actions does not make them right,

 

[Mr.S.Singh]

u r forgetting chechans r russian citizans they enjoy all the rights as the rest of russians and russians dont bomb them every week and niether do chechans they have buried the past and have moved on the analogy doesnt works

chech's are active terrorist that are fighting because they are suppressed. They are still fighting for independence.

 

[he-man]

Doesn't the world survive on self-interest ? Russian'sare staunch anti-chech's ... and pakistan is getting closer to russia.. isnt that self interest my friend ?

don'

So you are admitting that your comments are based on self-interest, not on fundamental principles?

That's fine (we knew it) but it's good that you admit it.



While I don't approve of anyone killing civilians, Palestinians killing Israelis is like Indians killing British in British India.

The colonial occupier must sleep with one eye open.



It's clear that you haven't read similar passages in other religious books, including the Torah and Bible, about non-believers.

The passages in the Quran are about a specific tribe, not Jews in general.

Muslims saved Jews from persecution for centuries. And this is how they get paid back.

The current state of Israel is a colonial imposition by the West, and every group of people has a right to resist their colonial overlords. Just because this particular group of colonialists happen to be Jewish does not give them a carte blanche.

as if no one knows whats written in quran!!
u are not the only one with translations here,,,there are 2-3 threads running on supposed jewish state destruction as written in quran,,,go and talk ur idea of peace there.

if u can't do that then accept the fact that jews have the power now and u can't do shit about it

 

[Mr.S.Singh]

Of course many people are motivated by self-interest.
All I am doing is asking people to admit it instead of claiming they are representing high ideals or humane principles.

Wouldn't shy away, Israel has alot to teach India on counter terrorism
we maintain both good relationship with Israelis and Palestinians. We hope for a peaceful resolve, India has many times voiced concerns to Israelis.
Keeping that aside, we have strategic importance with the Israelis

 

[Developereo]

It seems clear to me you have not read the many interpretations of those verses in the Quran.
Those interpretations make it clear its against Jews in general.Would you like me to call a few esteemed Muslim members to present those on this forum?

There are plenty of self-proclaimed experts who interpret verses as they see fit.

What is clear is that YOU don't have the intellectual honesty to admit that many religious books, including the Torah, have similar verses about non-believers. The verses in the Torah make the Quran look positively benign.

Just because YOU lack the knowledge or intellectual honesty to see the whole picture doesn't mean others will give you a pass.

Just because you are Muslim, does not mean you get a carte blanche to preach hatred to your children against Jews because your 'God wills it' theme. If you think you can cut ice against educated people with hypocrisy, you are wrong.

The issues of Israel would be solved if the Muslims there abjured violence. But you have another theme of 'jihad' for that, another 'God wills it' theme which wont allow peace.

Spare me the tantrum.

History reveals that Muslims and Jews got along reasonably well -- relatively speaking -- through the centuries. Muslims protected Jews from Christian tyranny. The current conflict was ignited by the Israel - that's right Israeli -- decision to frame the colonization of Palestine in religious terms.

Just because YOU are intellectually dishonest won't change the history of how/why the Zionists framed their cause.

 

[he-man]

Of course many people are motivated by self-interest.
All I am doing is asking people to admit it instead of claiming they are representing high ideals or humane principles.



The Nazis were also doing what the justified necessary actions to save the Aryan race from threat by Jews.

Just because one group of fanatics justifies their actions does not make them right,

muslims should be the last people to preach about peace looking at whats happening all over the world.
i mean

muslims vs hindus
muslims vs sikhs
muslims vs jews
muslims vs buddhists
muslims vs sri lankans
muslims vs russians
muslims vs muslims in afganistan,syria,libya,iraq,nigeria,pakistan

what are ur expert views on that??
far more people are killed everyyear in karachi than palestine,,,what are ur views there??

Wouldn't shy away, Israel has alot to teach India on counter terrorism
we maintain both good relationship with Israelis and Palestinians. We hope for a peaceful resolve, India has many times voiced concerns to Israelis.
Keeping that aside, we have strategic importance with the Israelis

There are plenty of self-proclaimed experts who interpret verses as they see fit.

What is clear is that YOU don't have the intellectual honesty to admit that many religious books, including the Torah, have similar verses about non-believers. The verses in the Torah make the Quran look positively benign.

Just because YOU lack the knowledge or intellectual honesty to see the whole picture doesn't mean others will give you a pass.



Spare me the tantrum.

History reveals that Muslims and Jews got along reasonably well -- relatively speaking -- through the centuries. Muslims protected Jews from Christian tyranny. The current conflict was ignited by the Israel - that's right Israeli -- decision to frame the colonization of Palestine in religious terms.


do u want me to quote the verses and shame u here??

quit lying here man,,,everyone knows jews are eternal enemies of muslims,have always been from the prophet's times(pbuh)

Just because YOU are intellectually dishonest won't change the history of how/why the Zionists framed their cause.

 

[Contrarian]

There are plenty of self-proclaimed experts who interpret verses as they see fit.

What is clear is that YOU don't have the intellectual honesty to admit that many religious books, including the Torah, have similar verses about non-believers. The verses in the Torah make the Quran look positively benign.

Just because YOU lack the knowledge or intellectual honesty to see the whole picture doesn't mean others will give you a pass.

I disagree. I dont see the Jews all over the world finding and beating up Muslims in their neighbourhoods. I see Muslims globally doing that.


While there are verses in the Torah that talk against non-believers, The Quran surely takes things a step forward by talking about Jews directly (and I am paraphrasing here) as 'one of the biggest enemies of Muslims', and their hadiths talking about ' O Muslims, hunt the Jews' and a lot more on these lines.

Spare me the tantrum.

History reveals that Muslims and Jews got along reasonably well -- relatively speaking -- through the centuries. Muslims protected Jews from Christian tyranny. The current conflict was ignited by the Israel - that's right Israeli -- decision to frame the colonization of Palestine in religious terms.

Just because YOU are intellectually dishonest won't change the history of how/why the Zionists framed their cause.

Why should I spare you the tantrum? Because its the inconvenient truth?
Go back in history and you will find that the Jews were living there before Islam even came as a religion. So by what means do you take the 1940's boundaries as the defining lines of geography?

 

[Developereo]

as if no one knows whats written in quran!!
u are not the only one with translations here,,,there are 2-3 threads running on supposed jewish state destruction as written in quran,,,go and talk ur idea of peace there.

As I wrote, there was conflict with certain tribes who happened to be Jewish.
I don't deny that there are people who interpret verses in a wider context.

if u can't do that then accept the fact that jews have the power now and u can't do shit about it

I have never denied that Israel has the military might.
So did the Nazis in their time. So what?
What does might have to do with legitimacy?

muslims should be the last people to preach about peace looking at whats happening all over the world.
i mean

muslims vs hindus
muslims vs sikhs
muslims vs jews
muslims vs buddhists
muslims vs sri lankans
muslims vs russians
muslims vs muslims in afganistan,syria,libya,iraq,nigeria,pakistan

what are ur expert views on that??
far more people are killed everyyear in karachi than palestine,,,what are ur views there??

Muslims are spread all over the world.
There are lots of conflicts happening all around the world, and they involve different groups.
You can take the same statistics and show that Christians or any other group are involved in conflict everythere.

 

[he-man]

I disagree. I dont see the Jews all over the world finding and beating up Muslims in their neighbourhoods. I see Muslims globally doing that.


While there are verses in the Torah that talk against non-believers, The Quran surely takes things a step forward by talking about Jews directly (and I am paraphrasing here) as 'one of the biggest enemies of Muslims', and their hadiths talking about ' O Muslims, hunt the Jews' and a lot more on these lines.


Why should I spare you the tantrum? Because its the inconvenient truth?
Go back in history and you will find that the Jews were living there before Islam even came as a religion. So by what means do you take the 1940's boundaries as the defining lines of geography?

exactly,,,

advent of islam killed many,,maimed many jews and converted the rest and got hold of their land just like in other places.

 

[Mr.S.Singh]

Non-believers are once who don't believe in Humanity, lets not get religious lots of mud can be slashed at each other

 

[he-man]

As I wrote, there was conflict with certain tribes who happened to be Jewish.
I don't deny that there are people who interpret verses in a wider context.



I have never denied that Israel has the military might.
So did the Nazis in their time. So what?
What does might have to do with legitimacy?



Muslims are spread all over the world.
There are lots of conflicts happening all around the world, and they involve different groups.
You can take the same statistics and show that Christians or any other group are involved in conflict everythere.

no u can't do that,,,and even u know that.
muslims are suffering as moderated are not coming forwards and saying that this needs to stop.

have u ever condemned what isis or alqaeda is doing??

Non-believers are once who don't believe in Humanity, lets not get religious lots of mud can be slashed at each other

i don't care,,,i am an atheist anyways.
religion sucks big time,,especially for fanatics

 

[Developereo]

I disagree. I dont see the Jews all over the world finding and beating up Muslims in their neighbourhoods. I see Muslims globally doing that.

There are ways to kill directly, and there are ways to get others to do your killing.

While there are verses in the Torah that talk against non-believers, The Quran surely takes things a step forward by talking about Jews directly (and I am paraphrasing here) as 'one of the biggest enemies of Muslims', and their hadiths talking about ' O Muslims, hunt the Jews' and a lot more on these lines.

As I mentioned, they are in the context of certain localized conflicts with tribes who happened to be Jewish, not "Jews" as a religion. Islam respects Moses and Judaism.

Why should I spare you the tantrum? Because its the inconvenient truth?

No, because you are most specifically NOT quoting the truth.

Go back in history and you will find that the Jews were living there before Islam even came as a religion. So by what means do you take the 1940's boundaries as the defining lines of geography?

Ridiculous example.

Jews were a tribe in Hebron; other parts of Palestine were populated with other groups, including Canaanites. Palestinians can trace their ancestry to some of these groups.

Many different groups of people came and conquered that land. There is nothing special about the ancient Jewish occupation that gives them special rights over any one else.

 

[Mr.S.Singh]

i don't care,,,i am an atheist anyways.
religion sucks big time,,especially for fanatics

I am religious nothing wrong with being one.
Fact that people forget is every religion talks about humanity and peaceful co-existence. Religion talks about how one can take one self close to good, for salvation.

the above two points have been forgotten centuries ago

 

[Developereo]

advent of islam killed many,,maimed many jews and converted the rest and got hold of their land just like in other places.

You need to learn the difference between converting someone to a religion, and displacing people.

Islam converted many people but the people remained the same people (with different religion).
The current colonization of Israel displaced the residents with a colonialist overlords from Europe.

have u ever condemned what isis or alqaeda is doing??

I am talking about this topic. What do those have to do with the Israel/Palestine conflict?

 

[KingMamba]

There is no Islamic world. There is at best a Sunni world and even there Bangladesh, Turkey and Indonesia would stay 10 foot away from such a group.

That is what you hope however we will get through this latest saga of bloodletting and then exhibit a united front, the last time such a thing happened the Euros were dumped out of the Levant so it is best the Israelis agree to some sort of settlement before history repeats itself. Needless to say patience and time is running out for any sort of two state solution.

exactly,,,

advent of islam killed many,,maimed many jews and converted the rest and got hold of their land just like in other places.

Islam was a blessing for Jews in the Levant, it was the Muslims who allowed them back into Jerusalem, it was under the Muslim rule that the golden age of Judaism commenced, and it was again under the Muslims that the fleeing Jews of Spain found refuge.