There are more Indian migrants living in Pakistan than the United States

[adil_minhas]

I'd say the same thing about states of India if there was an irrational flow based on philosophy. There should be a limit. Subcontinent is very diverse and we must preserve it.

I agree about the imaginary line. My personal opinion is that we should remove the line in a few decades and be brethren. Do you agree?

There was and has always been a line. And there is nothing imaginary about it.

It's called the Indus.

Kudos.

 

[Kabira]

It has already been mentioned all 170 million (or if the figure is larger) will not want to come because of the terrorism situation and lack of economic progress. Few thousand will each year and in the past 10 years about 100000. This is a tiny number compared to 3 million Afghans who are very poor and cannot give back. But those who do come should be appreciated if they are committed to the ideology of Pakistan.That is what should count.

Many afghanis are rich in Pakistan but that doesn't give them free pass. Everyone agree they should go back. As far as Indian muslims are concerned. Stop lying through your teeth again and again, I already debunked your BS several times but here is source.

"INDIAN Muslims, according to the Sachar Committee report, are slipping below Dalits in terms of economic and educational status and the committee has given large data in this regard. This has also been acknowledged by the government of India."
https://www.dawn.com/news/881292/indian-muslims-in-a-sorry-state-getting-worse-than-dalits

Few millionaires are welcome to invest but vast majority of them will be burden on Pakistan economy. There is nothing they can provide that actual Pakistanis can't, that include Pakistani muhajirs as well. You only want to bring educated lot in? News flash many educated people in Pakistan are jobless. I'm not against you bringing your wife from India but against open borders for Indian muslims in general.

We will call anyone we want as long as he is patriotic or has the ability to merge within the Pakistani fabric. Deal with it. We have trust in our rest of Punjabi and other brothers who accept us as citizens.

What is our fault that we couldn't migrate earlier? What is our fault that our houses were taken over in Lucknow? What is our fault that RSS took our lands? What is our fault that the courts supported them. I know our allies even in Hyderabad going through hell just to get back their ancestral lands.

The stand of allowing loyalists of Pakistan from Lucknow improves Pakistan's prestige. It also gives us the chance to do the morally right thing. I am Pakistani. An actual Pakistani. No one can take that away from me.

As I said I will not stop if another one of my cousins uncles or others is suffering in Indian occupied lands. I will call them and help them work for Pakistan. I will help them get citizenship like my father, mother grandfather from my fathers side was. You can do nothing about it. Thankfully so.

How is that Pakistan fault if hindus treat you badly in India? You are delusional fool if you think they can just come in like that. Look at what is happening to Afghanis, same will happen to muhajirs to separate legals from illegals. Then you will cry about ethnicity again.

Indian national residing illegally in Karachi over five years arrested

KARACHI: Law enforcement agencies have reportedly arrested an Indian national from Karachi who was living illegally in the metropolis for more than five years.

The accused, identified as Arshad Hussain, was arrested during a raid near Jail Chowrangi in Karachi by the Foreigners Registration Cell (FRC).

“He had arrived in Karachi from Bombay in 2011,” said FRC official Arif Adukat.

“Later he arranged fake Pakistani passports, CNIC, educational and other documents to prove his Pakistani nationality and started living in the country illegally by pretending to be a legal Pakistani,” he added.

https://tribune.com.pk/story/1098885/raw-agent-rounded-up-in-karachi-raid/

Erroneous

Whatever his motives, Jinnah had made his views on the two nation demand quite clear to the Congress and Britain by early 1940 (even earlier if certain letters to Gandhi are used). The Lahore Declaration itself was in March 1940 so your reference to 1946 is completely incorrect.

You never heard of 1946 cabinet mission? He used Pakistan as bargaining chip till then.

 

[Mentee]

@war&peace @Doordie @The Sandman @tps77 @Kaptaan

The thread, in my opinion, has reached to a conclusion . That, Pakistan was carved out of British Indian union for Muslims so, by default Muslims from around the world are welcomed here and preferably from a specifically chosen group of folks dwelling on our eastern side. And to top it off when those folks from different racial backgrounds arrive, should be treated as a new ethnic group .

 

[adil_minhas]

@haviZsultan

Bhaijan, sun liya?

Ya aur kuch sunna baki hai?

Kudos.

 

[django]

Can you tell me how an Urdu speaker Indian Muslim claims to be a Panjabi Rajput?

LoL bro,,,he is a fake,,,known as doppelganger in the past.,,,,welcome back.

 

[haviZsultan]

Many afghanis are rich in Pakistan but that doesn't give them free pass. Everyone agree they should go back. As far as Indian muslims are concerned. Stop lying through your teeth again and again, I already debunked your BS several times but here is source.

Nawaz Sharif's lost son. Go register multiple votes so that Nawaz Sharif doesn't get kicked around in the next election. No one agrees we should go back. For Pakistan's expansion a new policy will have to be devised and it will be done by people with a larger mind and no narrow mindedness. I am grateful to be accepted as most migrants are. We contribute to the economic well being of the country. Baba Nawaz will give you a lollipop since you have been so loyal to him.

"INDIAN Muslims, according to the Sachar Committee report, are slipping below Dalits in terms of economic and educational status and the committee has given large data in this regard. This has also been acknowledged by the government of India."
https://www.dawn.com/news/881292/indian-muslims-in-a-sorry-state-getting-worse-than-dalits

I acknowledge this. But my whole family is not economically unstable. In the start maybe but not now. Those that have come in 2000's are well educated and financially sound. The process of vetting exists so that those that will be a burden will be refused. Though there are some Rohingya and Bengali refugees as well as citizens in Pakistan who are from the lower strata of economic power. They will be nationalists and grateful to Pakistan and its ethnic diversity in the future. Unlike you son of Nawaz. A person who does not respect the ethnic diversity of the country is the one who belongs to the Arabian sea. Not migrants.

Few millionaires are welcome to invest but vast majority of them will be burden on Pakistan economy.

Ghenda wants a cracker... Gendha wants a cracker. Kawww Kaww. Keep repeating like a parrot. You can do nothing. As I said a few thousand cannot change demographics. There is benefit in having them. More than the loss.

There is nothing they can provide that actual Pakistanis can't, that include Pakistani muhajirs as well.

Thank you for finally accepting us as Pakistanis. This is progress.
Tommorrow if there is a chance you will give up ethnic voting-sitting in the lap of Nawaz with dudu bottle then it will be a victory for Pakistaniat.

You only want to bring educated lot in? News flash many educated people in Pakistan are jobless.

The middle and upper classes have a duty to generate jobs. Being from this group I know we hire people like maids (our aunt even teaches them to write urdu-english and learn), watchmen, guards, gardeners among others. We give back. We provide jobs. We aren't just taking from Pakistan-we give back to the community. But I agree with the general idea. Provide first for the poor. Then think about immigration. Know beforehand that the man will not be dirt poor and a burden on the economy. Ideology isn't enough if we come and find ourselves with new problems when we have left our old ones in Lucknow, escaping is not enough.

I'm not against you bringing your wife from India but against open borders for Indian muslims in general.

We are also against open borders. They are our enemy, the Indians. But I am supportive of muslim immigration to Pakistan as this was why it was formed.

How is that Pakistan fault if hindus treat you badly in India?

Champion of Nawaz why was Pakistan actually created and in whose drawing rooms the AIML leaders sat? Read Jaswant Singhs book and it will note reasons for Pakistan coming to be. One reason was Hindutva intolerance and that was why we migrate. Now we are Pakistani. Do whatever you want you can't change that.

You are delusional fool if you think they can just come in like that. Look at what is happening to Afghanis, same will happen to muhajirs to separate legals from illegals. Then you will cry about ethnicity again.

Indian national residing illegally in Karachi over five years arrested

KARACHI: Law enforcement agencies have reportedly arrested an Indian national from Karachi who was living illegally in the metropolis for more than five years.

The accused, identified as Arshad Hussain, was arrested during a raid near Jail Chowrangi in Karachi by the Foreigners Registration Cell (FRC).

“He had arrived in Karachi from Bombay in 2011,” said FRC official Arif Adukat.

“Later he arranged fake Pakistani passports, CNIC, educational and other documents to prove his Pakistani nationality and started living in the country illegally by pretending to be a legal Pakistani,” he added.

https://tribune.com.pk/story/1098885/raw-agent-rounded-up-in-karachi-raid/

He was rightly arrested. Whatever the reasons you can't live illegally in the country. You have to accept the due process and even if save gendha is sitting on the immigration bench chewing paan and gurgling alcohol and denies we should accept. But what happened happened. And it will happen again as long as there is oppression

You never heard of 1946 cabinet mission? He used Pakistan as bargaining chip till then.

The first time Jinnah began thinking Pakistan would have to be a reality was 38. In 40 he was certain it needed to be done. Read history and Jaswant Singh's book. If what you saw was true Lucknow pact and Lahore resolution wouldn't exist.

@haviZsultan

Bhaijan, sun liya?

Ya aur kuch sunna baki hai?

Kudos.

People like save gendha are a minority. No need to smile in your sleep over this thinking that hindutvas will spare you. It is migrants own fault that we haven't built a more patriotic image of ourselves so people think we are a burden and are keen to displace other people like Sindhis and Punjabis to get stronger. I think most of our brothers understand that us keeping links with our Lucknowi independence seeking allies and relatives is good. If there is voluminous support for the idea that we abandon such links we will do so. As I said we see muslim loyalists to India as collaborators. Part of the problem. I suggest you change. India is not a country. And muslims are a separate nation.

 

[adil_minhas]

Nawaz Sharif's lost son. Go register multiple votes so that Nawaz Sharif doesn't get kicked around in the next election. No one agrees we should go back. For Pakistan's expansion a new policy will have to be devised and it will be done by people with a larger mind and no narrow mindedness. I am grateful to be accepted as most migrants are. We contribute to the economic well being of the country. Baba Nawaz will give you a lollipop since you have been so loyal to him.



I acknowledge this. But my whole family is not economically unstable. In the start maybe but not now. Those that have come in 2000's are well educated and financially sound. The process of vetting exists so that those that will be a burden will be refused. Though there are some Rohingya and Bengali refugees as well as citizens in Pakistan who are from the lower strata of economic power. They will be nationalists and grateful to Pakistan and its ethnic diversity in the future. Unlike you son of Nawaz. A person who does not respect the ethnic diversity of the country is the one who belongs to the Arabian sea. Not migrants.



Ghenda wants a cracker... Gendha wants a cracker. Kawww Kaww. Keep repeating like a parrot. You can do nothing.



Thank you for finally accepting us as Pakistanis. This is progress.
Tommorrow if there is a chance you will give up ethnic voting-sitting in the lap of Nawaz with dudu bottle then it will be a victory for Pakistaniat.

The middle and upper classes have a duty to generate jobs. Being from this group I know we hire people like maids (our aunt even teaches them to write urdu-english and learn), watchmen, guards, gardeners among others. We give back. We provide jobs. We aren't just taking from Pakistan-we give back to the community. But I agree with the general idea. Provide first for the poor. Then think about immigration. Know beforehand that the man will not be dirt poor and a burden on the economy. Ideology isn't enough if we come and find ourselves with new problems when we have left our old ones in Lucknow, escaping is not enough.





Champion of Nawaz why was Pakistan actually created and in whose drawing rooms the AIML leaders sat? Read Jaswant Singhs book and it will note reasons for Pakistan coming to be. One reason was Hindutva intolerance and that was why we migrate. Now we are Pakistani. Do whatever you want you can't change that.

You are delusional fool if you think they can just come in like that. Look at what is happening to Afghanis, same will happen to muhajirs to separate legals from illegals. Then you will cry about ethnicity again.



He was rightly arrested. Whatever the reasons you can't live illegally in the country. You have to accept the due process and even if save gendha is sitting on the immigration bench chewing paan and gurgling alcohol and denies we should accept. But what happened happened. And it will happen again as long as there is oppression

You never heard of 1946 cabinet mission? He used Pakistan as bargaining chip till then.
The first time Jinnah began thinking Pakistan would have to be a reality was 38. In 40 he was certain it needed to be done. Read history and Jaswant Singh's book. If what you saw was true Lucknow pact and Lahore resolution wouldn't exist.


People like save gendha are a minority. No need to smile in your sleep over this thinking that hindutvas will spare you. It is migrants own fault that we haven't built a more patriotic image of ourselves so people think we are a burden and are keen to displace other people like Sindhis and Punjabis to get stronger. I think most of our brothers understand that us keeping links with our Lucknowi independence seeking allies and relatives is good. If there is voluminous support for the idea that we abandon such links we will do so. As I said we see muslim loyalists to India as collaborators. Part of the problem. I suggest you change. India is not a country. And muslims are a separate nation.

Bhaijan as your younger brother I assure you that even if qayamat comes I will not change.

Forget me. Two of the Lucknow bombers backed out when they heard of the anti national plot.

I was hoping for you that your parents made it to Pakistan in time. You say 2000s. I'm sorry but you are always going to be seen as an Indian ....

 

[haviZsultan]

Bhaijan as your younger brother I assure you that even if qayamat comes I will not change.

Forget me. Two of the Lucknow bombers backed out when they heard of the anti national plot.

I was hoping for you that your parents made it to Pakistan in time. You say 2000s. I'm sorry but you are always going to be seen as an Indian ....

My parents moved earlier. Some of my relatives have moved in 2000's mostly girls for marriages. Even this takes committment considering the Indian sponsored terror activity in the country. They didn't leave us in Lucknow now are not leaving us in Pakistan-understandable as the hindutvas will always be our enemies. Better realize that now and change rather than waking up later. Cheers.

Also people are calling you a Hindu impersonator. Even so if I won't change and neither would you whats the point other than me repeating myself about Indian atrocities which you will choose to ignore until it happens to you.

 

[EndangeredSpecies]

My parents moved earlier. Some of my relatives have moved in 2000's mostly girls for marriages. Even this takes committment considering the Indian sponsored terror activity in the country. They didn't leave us in Lucknow now are not leaving us in Pakistan-understandable as the hindutvas will always be our enemies. Better realize that now and change rather than waking up later. Cheers.

Also people are calling you a Hindu impersonator. Even so if I won't change and neither would you whats the point other than me repeating myself about Indian atrocities which you will choose to ignore until it happens to you.

Janaab, Before coming Pakistan what was the general financial condition of your family? A lot of Muslim face oppression in India because they are poor not because they are Muslim. The current growth in India has been unequal with rich getting much bigger pie. Someone's financial condition usually is a better predictor of their freedom than anything else.
BTW, this is coming from a Muslim whose extended family has a variety of financial outcomes.

 

[adil_minhas]

My parents moved earlier. Some of my relatives have moved in 2000's mostly girls for marriages. Even this takes committment considering the Indian sponsored terror activity in the country. They didn't leave us in Lucknow now are not leaving us in Pakistan-understandable as the hindutvas will always be our enemies. Better realize that now and change rather than waking up later. Cheers.

Also people are calling you a Hindu impersonator. Even so if I won't change and neither would you whats the point other than me repeating myself about Indian atrocities which you will choose to ignore until it happens to you.

Bhaijan django is just miffed that I pointed out his paindu angrezi.

He seems to have a private tharki click. And naturally they are all against me.

Ek doosre ki peeth khujlate hain.

Kudos

 

[haviZsultan]

Janaab, Before coming Pakistan what was the general financial condition of your family?

That is a big question because our relatives have moved out at different times. With the first moving in 52. The latest in two thousand something (I don't know because we don't talk about this topic and because they are more distant cousins). Then (in 52) our entire families financial condition wasn't well. My dada (paternal grandfather) who came a little later was a schoolteacher. By 70's the financial circumstances were gradually in a process of change. By the time other relatives moved their condition was improving. Both in Lucknow and original Pakistani territory. Now there are no members in our extended family who are uneducated or earning less than 100,000 ruppees. I might be wrong but I haven't met any though I haven't asked their salary.

A lot of Muslim face oppression in India because they are poor not because they are Muslim. The current growth in India has been unequal with rich getting much bigger pie. Someone's financial condition usually is a better predictor of their freedom than anything else.

Every where the rich get it better. But in our case our economic superiority by the time we faced bigger problems than just our land being taken (which was an issue from the start) did not help us.

BTW, this is coming from a Muslim whose extended family has a variety of financial outcomes.

Wish you luck. Though surprising how everyone becomes a muslim Indian on PDF. If true I would give you the same advise as adil minhas.

 

[Kabira]

Nawaz Sharif's lost son. Go register multiple votes so that Nawaz Sharif doesn't get kicked around in the next election. No one agrees we should go back. For Pakistan's expansion a new policy will have to be devised and it will be done by people with a larger mind and no narrow mindedness. I am grateful to be accepted as most migrants are. We contribute to the economic well being of the country. Baba Nawaz will give you a lollipop since you have been so loyal to him.

You are blind nationalist muhajir who doesn't see that Nawaz have little to do with it. Its because of Pakistan hating nationalist muhajirs like you that no one in Pakistan want to open borders ever again. You guys are easy recruits for RAW. You can't change Altaf Hussain blood in your veins.

I acknowledge this. But my whole family is not economically unstable. In the start maybe but not now. Those that have come in 2000's are well educated and financially sound. The process of vetting exists so that those that will be a burden will be refused. Though there are some Rohingya and Bengali refugees as well as citizens in Pakistan who are from the lower strata of economic power. They will be nationalists and grateful to Pakistan and its ethnic diversity in the future. Unlike you son of Nawaz. A person who does not respect the ethnic diversity of the country is the one who belongs to the Arabian sea. Not migrants.

They can be grateful for Pakistan in middle of ganga nala as long as they stay there. There is no vetting process, only in exceptional cases Indian muslims are allowed to be nationalized. Marriage for exemple. Rest are illegals and rightly deserve to be harassed by rangers and thrown in to arabian sea. They will eventually throw themselves in arabian sea and die.

Thank you for finally accepting us as Pakistanis. This is progress.
Tommorrow if there is a chance you will give up ethnic voting-sitting in the lap of Nawaz with dudu bottle then it will be a victory for Pakistaniat.

The middle and upper classes have a duty to generate jobs. Being from this group I know we hire people like maids (our aunt even teaches them to write urdu-english and learn), watchmen, guards, gardeners among others. We give back. We provide jobs. We aren't just taking from Pakistan-we give back to the community. But I agree with the general idea. Provide first for the poor. Then think about immigration. Know beforehand that the man will not be dirt poor and a burden on the economy. Ideology isn't enough if we come and find ourselves with new problems when we have left our old ones in Lucknow, escaping is not enough. We are also against open borders. They are our enemy, the Indians. But I am supportive of muslim immigration to Pakistan as this was why it was formed.

Yes I'm ethnic nationalist while you want to bring millions of your kin just to increase numbers in expense of actual Pakistanis, thanks but no thanks. You can wipe your *** with paper where ideology of Pakistan is written. While your kin doesn't even want rest of Pakistanis to migrate to Karachi, ironic.

Champion of Nawaz why was Pakistan actually created and in whose drawing rooms the AIML leaders sat? Read Jaswant Singhs book and it will note reasons for Pakistan coming to be. One reason was Hindutva intolerance and that was why we migrate. Now we are Pakistani. Do whatever you want you can't change that.

It was created for us but our big hearts allowed you in for decades. Afghanis also though they will never go back, they brought properties, married etc But look at them now.

 

[EndangeredSpecies]

Wish you luck. Though surprising how everyone becomes a muslim Indian on PDF. If true I would give you the same advise as adil minhas.

Janaab, it is self selection bias. When you introduce yourself as a Pakistani national whose family migrated from India (from 54 to 2000) the group of Indian people who will reply to you, about the post you are making will tend to be in near or similar situation. An Indian Muslim is in a much closer situation than a Hindu from India.

Every where the rich get it better. But in our case our economic superiority by the time we faced bigger problems than just our land being taken (which was an issue from the start) did not help us.

My observation was rather general. I believe discrimination is not the fact that you are getting a shitty deal, it is the fact that only you are getting a shitty deal. Many middle class and poor hindus also get really shitty deal from society, law and government.

That is a big question because our relatives have moved out at different times. With the first moving in 52. The latest in two thousand something (I don't know because we don't talk about this topic and because they are more distant cousins). Then (in 52) our entire families financial condition wasn't well. My dada (paternal grandfather) who came a little later was a schoolteacher. By 70's the financial circumstances were gradually in a process of change. By the time other relatives moved their condition was improving. Both in Lucknow and original Pakistani territory. Now there are no members in our extended family who are uneducated or earning less than 100,000 ruppees. I might be wrong but I haven't met any though I haven't asked their salary.

I do not know the entire story and I think it will not be prudent to probe that here, but in general, IMHO, poverty may be the reason why some of your family may have faced oppression in India. That said I do not deny that there is an unequal or discriminatory treatment in India, only the scale of it. Money usually is much bigger factor. The worst off folks among Muslims are those who are too poor to even migrate anywhere.

 

[haviZsultan]

You are blind nationalist muhajir who doesn't see that Nawaz have little to do with it. Its because of Pakistan hating nationalist muhajirs like you that no one in Pakistan want to open borders ever again. You guys are easy recruits for RAW. You can't change Altaf Hussain blood in your veins.

One rupee champion, I will give Altaf's hand in marriage to you. That fat roly poly man with mustache would be the dream of your lifetime.

You deserve a division promoting toad like him. He will sing lullaby to you so you can go to sleep.

They can be grateful for Pakistan in middle of ganga nala as long as they stay there. There is no vetting process, only in exceptional cases Indian muslims are allowed to be nationalized.

So what is your problem? They are accepted on "exceptional cases"... and I said the same thing. Not every tom dick and harry is given citizenship.

Marriage for exemple. Rest are illegals and rightly deserve to be harassed by rangers and thrown in to arabian sea. They will eventually throw themselves in arabian sea and die.

No one harasses us. We are happy and rangers are happy with us. We have even joined the army. You know the background checks there. Did they deny us a chance because we came from Indian occupied parts like you would?

Yes I'm ethnic nationalist while you want to bring millions of your kin just to increase numbers in expense of actual Pakistanis, thanks but no thanks.

I already blew apart this myth that "millions" will come. Only a few thousand come each year. And 100,000 in a decade plus. Those are the figures I have. As Adil Minhas proved all don't want to move. Obviously with Nawaz Sharif's little touts how will they see Pakistan positively and as the land made for them. Even nawaz is a Kashmiri but apparantly anyone shouting jaag punjab jaag deserves your vote. Next you will vote for Jhangvi leaders because they are from Jhang. Btw why don't you kick Nawaz out? He is Kashmiri. Doesn't he deserve your ire like us. He is acceptable to you but not us?

You can wipe your *** with paper where ideology of Pakistan is written.

Now that is not an insult to me but the very idea of Pakistan. I knew a PMLN supporter can only be a traitor to Pakistan. That is why you will never change your voting habits. And if you don't change them nothing in Pakistan will change for the better. We met Jinnah and believe in his Pakistan ideology. You can cry all you want but one day true sons of Pakistan will run the country.

While your kin doesn't even want rest of Pakistanis to migrate to Karachi, ironic.

Who said that roly poly toly toly dudu bottle baby in a dirty diaper? "Baba baba, read me a story of maula jatt. Baba Nawaz Sharif give me dudu"

Most pakistanis are satisfied with migrants. We have our faults, we have our strengths. One is our educational and financial level. Muhajirs are economically the most richest community in Pakistan. I just wish were more sympathetic to other races and less nationalistic in the ethnic sense or willing to ground anyone to get our way. But I have lived in Lucknow and seen the problems. I want to change things. But one rupee soldiers of Nawaz begging for another rupee from Altaf can't see the changes real muhajirs want to bring and the benefit of these changes for Pakistan.

It was created for us but our big hearts allowed you in for decades.

And they will allow more for a decade because Pakistan benefits. We have trust in real Punjabis not nooras.

Afghanis also though they will never go back, they brought properties, married etc But look at them now.

Anyone who hates Pakistan should go back. But we could have nationalized some of these Afghans and used them as a tool of policy. We never see our advantage where it exists.

 

[adil_minhas]

@haviZsultan I'll be honest with you. Many Indian Muslims do not come to PDF because they are actually scared of any even indirect link with Pakistan in the current political climate in India with ugly pustules bursting forth all around. This is fact and I personally know more than a few roji roti waale who are afraid of being found visiting a Pakistani forum. Fir IT waalon ke liye visa shisa ka bhi chakkar ho sakta hai.

Hamara kuch nahin. Hum apne maalik hain. But not everyone is as cool or unconcerned.

Then there are many Muslims here who might be silently reading only or posting without being obvious who they are. You must have gauged why.

Bottom line is there are close to 200 million of us. In terms of the upper crust on the Internet the numbers would be around the same as well.

So it should not surprise you in a board full of Pakistani Muslims to bump into some Indian ones as well.