"Their claim is false, but they still believe it"

[iajj]

If you keep reading the U.S. diplomatic record it becomes more and more clear that the expulsions, massacres, and starvation experienced by the Armenians were carried out with not only the knowledge but the approval of the Turkish government. The final straw for U.S. diplomats was when the "Sublime Porte" demanded that the U.S. life insurance policies held by deceased Armenians should be paid to the Porte, for their heirs were also dead which meant the Porte was now the beneficiary.

it is disgusting to watch turkics denying armenian genovide, and more disgusting still to watch jews/angloamericans and turkics going at each other over this issue: other races - russians, europeans, chinese, and armenians themselves - highlight turk atrocity to seek redress and the elimination of the poisonous panturkicism once and for all. jews and americans play this to blackmail and keep turkics in their own genocidal camp.

animalistic these people all are

 

[Solomon2]

I already gave you evidences and presented our position, the simple fact that the armenians are not responding to the Turkish governments calls for historians to analyze the events using all documents which are archived is suspicious.

No, it's not. Part of the proof of the genocide has to do with what is missing - documents and artifacts that SHOULD be there if the Armenians hadn't been destroyed. If Turks like yourself accept only a narrow definition of "proof" then why should the Armenians bother?

If you're really concerned, the Armenians shouldn't have to prove anything; you should simply support opening the Turkish archives yourself.

If I knew I was right about something I wouldn't be scared to debate. It seems that armenian historians are scared to debate.

I have some sympathy for the Armenians here: who would believe in the 1933-45 Holocaust if the Allies and Russians hadn't conquered Germany before the Nazis could destroy all documents and evidence?

 

[Hakan]

No, it's not. Part of the proof of the genocide has to do with what is missing - documents and artifacts that SHOULD be there if the Armenians hadn't been destroyed. If Turks like yourself accept only a narrow definition of "proof" then why should the Armenians bother?

If you're really concerned, the Armenians shouldn't have to prove anything; you should simply support opening the Turkish archives yourself.

I have some sympathy for the Armenians here: who would believe in the 1933-45 Holocaust if the Allies and Russians hadn't conquered Germany before the Nazis could destroy all documents and evidence?

Your acting like we are trying to hide something while at the same time we are calling for an investigation which includes anlayzing documents from various countries by 3rd party historians.

 

[xenon54 out]

it is disgusting to watch turkics denying armenian genovide, and more disgusting still to watch jews/angloamericans and turkics going at each other over this issue: other races - russians, europeans, chinese, and armenians themselves - highlight turk atrocity to seek redress and the elimination of the poisonous panturkicism once and for all. jews and americans play this to blackmail and keep turkics in their own genocidal camp.

animalistic these people all are

A Chinese is the last one to condemn us...

The worst genocides of the 20th and 21st Century

Mao's Great Leap Forward 'killed 45 million in four years' - News - Books - The Independent

Causes of the Genocide - The Chinese Cultural Revolution

 

[Solomon2]

with all sincerity, im not a historian, and neither are you, i guess. So it's a waste of time for you and me to discuss about this.

That's a pretty big evasion on your part. Two thumbs down.

If we still haven't seen a common neutral research to this day -

You evaded my question earlier on the grounds you're not a historian, yet you're passing judgment here as if you are one.

i blame the Armenians and Europeans for not urging each other to accept the challenge and prove Turkey wrong.

You can't expect people to act instantly.

Many of the developed world have a bias against Turks due the past, so they'd like this status quo and continue with their propaganda and media fable stories.

Germany was Turkey's ally and the U.S. not only was neutral at the time but had a decades-long relationship supplying arms (especially shipyards) to the Ottomans.

- facts speak for themselves.

Facts need to be interpreted by placing them in context - that's the flaw in @Kaan's proofs.

Furthermore, just as Sherlock Holmes famously solved a case by noting "the dog did not bark", so does the absence of facts that should be there also require explanation. This last Turks like yourself do not accept.

All diplomats who witnessed events record that the Turks, at the time, refused to allow photographs. It appears that not even the Germans had access to the written orders given to Ottoman authorities in Eastern Anatolia, which is strange because so much of the Ottoman military was under German command. And unlike the Germans in 1945, the Ottoman archives were never occupied and dissected by the Allied armies. So I ask you once again, whether the Armenian genocide is 100% true or false, what sort of evidence could the Armenians possibly be expected to have?

 

[Hakan]

@Solomon2

Answer this question.

Would it hurt the Armenians if they brought their evidences and we brought ours and they were analyzed and assessed by thrid party historians? Also all documents would be made availiable by all sides. Russian, americans, turks, germans, etc.

 

[Solomon2]

@Solomon2

Answer this question. Would it hurt the Armenians if they brought their evidences and we brought ours and they were analyzed and assessed by thrid party historians?

I don't know any Armenians. Speaking for myself, it's deeply hurtful when the inheritors of those who slew my grandparents, cousins, aunts, and uncles suddenly confront me and demand proof that they ever existed, or if they did that they were slain in the camps or shot. If such people really cared at a moral level, they'd examine their own sources through their own efforts, rather than worry about incriminating proofs in the possession of others. That's the standard I'm applying here.

 

[Hakan]

I don't know any Armenians. Speaking for myself, it's deeply hurtful when the inheritors of those who slew my grandparents, cousins, aunts, and uncles suddenly confront me and demand proof that they ever existed, or if they did that they were slain in the camps or shot. If such people really cared at a moral level, they'd examine their own sources through their own efforts, rather than worry about incriminating proofs in the possession of others. That's the standard I'm applying here.

LOL.

 

[Solomon2]

LOL.

Yes, I have to deal with people laughing at my pain. Doesn't say much for you, does it?

 

[Hakan]

Yes, I have to deal with people laughing at my pain. Doesn't say much for you, does it?

No im laughing at the fact that now you are using emotions as an excuse for legit historical debate where all documents are available for discussion by thrid party historians. I dont see how this could hurt someones feelings especially if they believe that they will win the debate.

 

[Solomon2]

No im laughing at the fact that now you are using emotions as an excuse for legit historical debate -

I made no excuses; you asked about feelings and that's the answer you got.

To answer your second point: I engage in such debates, but it's still hurtful, time-consuming, and I don't do it on demand; parties have to show they are open-minded and I'm not just an object of their hatred.

(Actually, since the opening of the Bad Arolsen archives, a few years back, I haven't had to engage in such debates anymore; records are there for researchers to see.)

I dont see how this could hurt someones feelings especially if they believe that they will win the debate.

You can be happy it's never happened to you.

I'd now like an apology.

 

[Hakan]

You can be happy it's never happened to you.

Actually it has happened to me. Armenians have killed muslims in ww1 in the millions. So I would like an apology from you for denying that.

Also I am sad for anyone that dies not just my own. What happend in ww1 was very bad. Turks, Kurds and Armenians lived in peace for a long time but foreign powers messed this up.

 

[iajj]

A Chinese is the last one to condemn us...

The worst genocides of the 20th and 21st Century

Mao's Great Leap Forward 'killed 45 million in four years' - News - Books - The Independent

Causes of the Genocide - The Chinese Cultural Revolution

no two killings are alike, politically or judicially. the killing of a rootless jew at hands of germans and the killing of an armenian at the hands of rootless turkics cannot be more different. given how historical we chinese are and how many different sorts of killings and mass murders we practice, i can assure you turkics that we know. and that is why i am still amused at the sight of jews and turkics going at each other, turkics to deny armenian genocide to hide their inhumanity and crime against continental eurasians, and jews to make use of armenian genocide to obscure their true agenda to more firmly tether the rootless turkics to the rootless cause of jews.

that both turkics - by their typically turkicist act of killing and massacring - and jews - by mocking armenian genocide and cheapening it by comparison to the execution of @Solomon2's aunties - committed crimes against armenians is plainly clear.

 

[Solomon2]

Actually it has happened to me. Armenians have killed muslims in ww1 in the millions. So I would like an apology from you for denying that.

You don't evince any evidence of personal feeling or trauma so I don't believe your claim. And since you seem determined to needlessly inflict pain upon others I'm leaving this thread now - and much more sympathetic to the Armenians than I was before.

 

[Hakan]

You don't evince any evidence of personal feeling or trauma so I don't believe your claim. And since you seem determined to needlessly inflict pain upon others I'm leaving this thread now - and much more sympathetic to the Armenians than I was before.

I thought you just implied that you were armenian.

Besides I dont have to have any special place in my heart for a group of people that want reparations from my country and my land based on half truths and exaggerated numbers. I find it astonishing that they show no heart for my people that died.