"Their claim is false, but they still believe it"

[SQ8]

Repeat something long enough in a loud enough voice, it becomes the truth.

 

[Solomon2]

Repeat something long enough in a loud enough voice, it becomes the truth.

Yes. For decades the denial has been a priority of the Turks. I'm not sure why.

 

[SQ8]

Yes. For decades the denial has been a priority of the Turks. I'm not sure why.

It holds true for any nation, any subject.

 

[Solomon2]

It holds true for any nation, any subject.

I think your judgment is superficial. The books of the Jews detail the conquest of Canaan, the U.S. releases most everything after thirty years, Germany has released much of their records of the Holocaust, etc.

I think what you're trying to imply is that everyone is equally good or bad or dishonest.

 

[SQ8]

I think your judgment is superficial. The books of the Jews detail the conquest of Canaan, the U.S. releases most everything after thirty years, Germany has released much of their records of the Holocaust, etc.

I think what you're trying to imply is that everyone is equally good or bad or dishonest.

Yes, everyone. Be it the Jewish people, the Muslims, Christians .. all have lied respectively to get their ways.

 

[Solomon2]

Yes, everyone. Be it the Jewish people, the Muslims, Christians .. all have lied respectively to get their ways.

One can't make a moral judgment on the lying until one delves into the specifics of "their ways" - that is, what each party was or is seeking by telling fibs or concealing the truth.

 

[SQ8]

The same one cant "cleanse" one party of all wrongdoing based on the "wolf!" theory. Repeat a falsehood many a times, fabricate evidence.. and then justify any immoral action based on past events.

 

[Solomon2]

The same one cant "cleanse" one party of all wrongdoing based on the "wolf!" theory. Repeat a falsehood many a times, fabricate evidence.. and then justify any immoral action based on past events.

Yes. That's greatly reduced when people have freedom to speak to contest such things without fear of retribution.

 

[usernameless]

I don't think it's a question of whether the authorities in Armenia or Europe have better access to info than you or I. As for why they don't "confront the Turkish govt", some of them, like the French, already have. What do you think jailing a historian on the Turkish government payroll for denying the Armenian holocaust was all about?

What more "proof" do you want?

I'm not sure what you mean. There were no photographs; diplomats state clearly that the Turks did not permit them. I don't see why Turks need wait for the Armenians to open their archives before opening their own. The U.S. doesn't wait for other nations to open their archives before declassifying, collating, and releasing much of its own. That's what makes Foreign Relations of the United States such a valuable resource, not just for Americans but for researchers world-wide.

I suppose you should just accept that the Armenian holocaust happened, then.

so, as you said, if the armenians didn't open their archives yet just because Turkey didn't do it either, then how can they go around claiming a genocide happened without proving it first? no matter what you say, the facts are that Turkey is willing to discuss it, armenia and such only claim and show some pictures to win sympathy. your other statements have no value at all. this whole happening is just a political tool (and that tool is armenia) of the west against Turkey, nothing else.

 

[Solomon2]

so, as you said, if the armenians didn't open their archives yet just because Turkey didn't do it either -

Check again. I didn't write that.

...how can they go around claiming a genocide happened without proving it first?

A better question is, why aren't YOU making the effort to determine the truth as best as you can, rather than pushing the burden onto others? With your kind of attitude, there isn't ANY kind of proof others could present you that you would accept, is that not so?

The same one cant "cleanse" one party of all wrongdoing based on the "wolf!" theory.

Sorry, what you're trying to say isn't clear to me.

 

[usernameless]

Check again. I didn't write that.

A better question is, why aren't YOU making the effort to determine the truth as best as you can, rather than pushing the burden onto others? With your kind of attitude, there isn't ANY kind of proof others could present you that you would accept, is that not so?

Sorry, what you're trying to say isn't clear to me.

i honestly fail to understand why you're still desperately trying to make a point out of something that is not the fundamental problem.
The situation is clear from Turkish side;

Either Armenians must bring the battle to the battlefield, or

simply shut up and stop lobbying to the world with the strong media and moral backing of the west. it's simple as that.

 

[Solomon2]

Either Armenians must bring the battle to the battlefield, or simply shut up and stop lobbying to the world with the strong media and moral backing of the west. it's simple as that.

What proofs would you recognize as convincing? If you refuse to list them, we'll know you're not a serious person.

 

[Hakan]

What proofs would you recognize as convincing? If you refuse to list them, we'll know you're not a serious person.

I already gave you evidences and presented our position, the simple fact that the armenians are not responding to the Turkish governments calls for historians to analyze the events using all documents which are archived is suspicious. If I knew I was right about something I wouldn't be scared to debate. It seems that armenian historians are scared to debate.

 

[usernameless]

What proofs would you recognize as convincing? If you refuse to list them, we'll know you're not a serious person.

with all sincerity, im not a historian, and neither are you, i guess. So it's a waste of time for you and me to discuss about this. Plus we don't have access to all sources. I only look at the fact that Turkish side made an invitation for a common research with sources from 3rd parties as well. If we still haven't seen a common neutral research to this day, i blame the Armenians and Europeans for not urging each other to accept the challenge and prove Turkey wrong. It's logical for them to continue as it is anyway. Many of the developed world have a bias against Turks due the past, so they'd like this status quo and continue with their propaganda and media fable stories. Lastly, i don't care if i seem dishonest or not, facts speak for themselves.

 

[xenon54 out]

If I knew I was right was right about something I wouldn't be scared to debate. It seems that armenian historians are scared to debate.

The thing is Amenians want that the Genocide is accepted as an undeniable fact without presenting the proof in their archives and recognizing the deaths on Turkish side, while we want a investigation with open archives in Ankara, Yerevan and Moscow, for me its pretty obvious who has something to hide.

Im sure the world wouldnt belive them that easily once they see how many people died on booth sides once the archives are opened, the definition of a Genocide is something whole different than what many documents from that time show us.

In other words they wanna condemn us without giving us the right to tell the story from our side.