The Pakistan Navy | Transformation from Fledgling Force to a Fighting Machine

[Kompromat]

this is an old news mate

Than i guess the friend of mine who told me about it was there for some ship upgrades.

And i said, recently...means after the Aman-13.

 

[RAMPAGE]

There are speculations that army has an effective weaponry so the budget is more focused on PN acquiring new ships. The type 054A even if is inducted by next wont be publicly announced unless leaked. I have heard that PN is focusing on 20 ship force for PN. ohp and 2 of type 54A and some F22p newer variant. Type 42 destroyer is still on request waiting for green signal by UK. Furthermore the Aircraft carrier capabilities might not bring enough edge as same or equivalent avionics jet fighter JF17 in PN fleet will be operational by the same time the mig 29k is inducted in carrier. right now 7-8 are operational but they are yet to be given full operational capabilities(im not sure about this mig 29k).

Qing Class submarine deal is done by some trading so having money $$$$$ is not problem here no matter what sub deal is made as compulsory...

these used destroyers ? Type 42 destroyer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

There are speculations that army has an effective weaponry so the budget is more focused on PN acquiring new ships. The type 054A even if is inducted by next wont be publicly announced unless leaked. I have heard that PN is focusing on 20 ship force for PN. ohp and 2 of type 54A and some F22p newer variant. Type 42 destroyer is still on request waiting for green signal by UK. Furthermore the Aircraft carrier capabilities might not bring enough edge as same or equivalent avionics jet fighter JF17 in PN fleet will be operational by the same time the mig 29k is inducted in carrier. right now 7-8 are operational but they are yet to be given full operational capabilities(im not sure about this mig 29k).

Qing Class submarine deal is done by some trading so having money $$$$$ is not problem here no matter what sub deal is made as compulsory...

First mig-29K sq has already been inducted.
Jf-17 does not have equivalent avionics,its KLJ-7 radar is much weaker than ZHUK-M.It also lacks the 'equalizer' the aim-120 amraam for BVR fights that f-16 has.
Its flight performance in speed,angle of attack,rate of climb,TW ratio are no match for mig-29k and most imp in BVR it lacks HOB WVR missile like R-73 archer of mig-29k without which it suffers serious disadvantage.

these used destroyers ? Type 42 destroyer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Again sea dart missiles are obsolete and are nearly defenseless against supersonic ASCMs,they have limited value against subsonic weapons like harpoon,kh-35,exocet.

 

[RAMPAGE]

Again sea dart missiles are obsolete and are nearly defenseless against supersonic ASCMs,they have limited value against subsonic weapons like harpoon,kh-35,exocet.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Sea dart is SAM on board type 42,so PN would essentially be buying a near defenceless set of ships.
What PN needs are fleet air defence destroyers like chinese type 52 destroyers with navalized HQ-9 in absence of other options.

 

[RAMPAGE]

Sea dart is SAM on board type 42,so PN would essentially be buying a near defenceless set of ships.
What PN needs are fleet air defence destroyers like chinese type 52 destroyers with navalized HQ-9 in absence of other options.

hmmm....i would go for 4 Daring-class destroyers, Horizon-class frigates or Sachsen-class frigate ! to be inducted in 5-6 years

 

[That Guy]

A fun read, though a bit exaggerated in places.

 

[Nishan_101]

The Above news is not a Source of Official Verdict.

From what I have heard on PDF, Pn might going to go:
Newer F-22P Block-II(4-7)
Some Corvettes(4-6)
More FAC like Azmat(about 8+ of them: Pakistan Navy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
Submarines are on discussion but depends on Money and more likely to be a JV with Chinese or like people wish it should be with Germans on 3000 tons SSK and 1500 tons SSKs.

UAVs are already coming and they are planning to get some P-3C Hawkeye 2000 AEW&Cs and may be some 4 more P-3C Orions too.

 

[Contrarian]

@Aeronaut, I did not write out in full because others had written out the flaws in the article.

It looks a lot like an article meant to give a scare report the politicos of Delhi in times of budget cuts particularly as the Navy is not getting its 6 additional subs as it wanted.

Scare mongering is now becoming very common by the Indian Armed Forces to get its gadgets.

As far as technical points are concerned, Austerlitz wrote all there is to write.

PN purchases while great for PN and great for peace time duties, pale woefully in comparison to what IN is procuring and consequently, most of the purchases end up being targets instead of packing a punch against a Navy like IN which is procuring more and more jets(carrier and land borne) and stealth ships(all classes).

The only saving grace of PN is its submarine fleet. We shall talk about JF-17 the day Pakistan Navy has them under its own colours.

 

[Kompromat]

@AUSTERLITZ

Your "comparison" is incorrect between Mig-29 and JF-17. Both jets have identical capabilities and if you have simply ignored the fact that the JF-17s will be supplemented by ZDK-03 AWACS, it depicts your biased point of view.

Here is what Sukhoi Chief had to say about the JF-17. http://www.defence.pk/forums/jf-17-thunder/70114-jf-17-extremely-close-mig-29-mikhail-pogosyan.html

Moreover, JF-17 can be armed with a wide array of state of the art stand off weapons like, CM-400AKG,C-802A,SD-10A,Raad ALCM and Exocest. You have simply ignored my repeated statements that PN has a defensive sea denial doctrine and no offensive ventures will be carried out. You on the other hand are consistently comparing two navies on par to par basis which either means that you haven't read the article totally or you simply aren't aware of whats actually being discussed here.


Best Regards.

 

[jamesseo89]

@Aeronaut, I did not write out in full because others had written out the flaws in the article.

It looks a lot like an article meant to give a scare report the politicos of Delhi in times of budget cuts particularly as the Navy is not getting its 6 additional subs as it wanted.

Scare mongering is now becoming very common by the Indian Armed Forces to get its gadgets.

As far as technical points are concerned, Austerlitz wrote all there is to write.

PN purchases while great for PN and great for peace time duties, pale woefully in comparison to what IN is procuring and consequently, most of the purchases end up being targets instead of packing a punch against a Navy like IN which is procuring more and more jets(carrier and land borne) and stealth ships(all classes).

The only saving grace of PN is its submarine fleet. We shall talk about JF-17 the day Pakistan Navy has them under its own colours.

So the news which I heard was correct that IN is not looking too much keen towards French subs. Please tell your other INDIAN fellows.

I think like many people believe that PN should have concentrated on procuring 6 Agosta-90Bs instead of 3. As they can extend the contract as well. More over it had the potential to sell about 3 or more submarines to BDs along with training as well with French confirmation.

 

[Contrarian]

So the news which I heard was correct that IN is not looking too much keen towards French subs. Please tell your other INDIAN fellows.

IN does not want 6 more Scorpenes.
It is open to 6 of the any other submarine. The point is that any company will have to win the contract from MoD. IN will be happy to accept whatever they get.

I think like many people believe that PN should have concentrated on procuring 6 Agosta-90Bs instead of 3. As they can extend the contract as well. More over it had the potential to sell about 3 or more submarines to BDs along with training as well with French confirmation.

They should have. But as of now, they have no money to buy French subs, or any subs except for Chinese which would be bought on soft loans.

Secondly, there is no scope of BD buying a Pakistani built sub. They require financing as well, and Pakistan cannot finance the sub. When they buy, the most likely outcome is Russian subs..Akula

The second would be that when they buy Akula, they automatically get access to Indian facilities and yards and tactics which IN has developed over long years.

 

[surya kiran]

Akula

That is a SSN. No way Russia will lease an SSN to BN.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

IN does not want 6 more Scorpenes.
It is open to 6 of the any other submarine. The point is that any company will have to win the contract from MoD. IN will be happy to accept whatever they get.


They should have. But as of now, they have no money to buy French subs, or any subs except for Chinese which would be bought on soft loans.

Secondly, there is no scope of BD buying a Pakistani built sub. They require financing as well, and Pakistan cannot finance the sub. When they buy, the most likely outcome is Russian subs..Akula

The second would be that when they buy Akula, they automatically get access to Indian facilities and yards and tactics which IN has developed over long years.

Seems to be some erroneous conclusions in the underlined parts. No way that an 'Akula' will be made available to BD. What the Russians may agree to transfer is the Kilo EKM subs. The second underlined statement applies to Kilos as well since India has some facilities for Kilo maintenance. Of course the Russians will consult with India prior to any negotiations on Kilos.

 

[Contrarian]

Apologies...I meant to write Kilo, not Akula.