The new enemy...

[Indus Pakistan]

This is not even an argument, but a universal truth. Religion has no business being intertwined with matters of State.

Trust me I know. I don't spend my time thinking how to convince the converted. You need simple sound bites to gnaw away at those who sing the Khalifa songs.

We the secularist have to go out and win people to our way of thinking or at least try.

 

[Norwegian]

This is not even an argument, but a universal truth. Religion has no business being intertwined with matters of State.

Infidel! How dare you even say that? @Zarvan

 

[RescueRanger]

This is not even an argument, but a universal truth. Religion has no business being intertwined with matters of State.

Amen brother!

 

[Norwegian]

We the secularist have to go out and win people to our way of thinking or at least try.

Religious nuts believe secularism is some sort of an ideology. Its not. Secularism only means separation of state and religious affairs. How difficult it is to understand that religion is not a totalitarian thing. Rather a part of our lives.

 

[VCheng]

Trust me I know. I don't spend my time thinking how to convince the converted. You need simple sound bites to gnaw away at those who sing the Khalifa songs.

We the secularist have to go out and win people to our way of thinking or at least try.

Careful now. You might be declared the next "retard" "thing" on PDF.

 

[Norwegian]

We have 2.5 million Muslims in UK. More are on the way. So clearly that is 2.5 million reasons why secularism is NOT inimical to Islam. Argument won !!!

Even if Muslims were 25 million, Britain would still be a secular state. Muslims can't change the system of governance to their Shariah BS anyway.

 

[Maira La]

Simply introducing secularism and separating religion from matters of state will not solve Pakistan's problem. You need to de-radicalize the people and prevent further radicalization. How do you do that?

 

[Gufi]

There is no else to blame for what Pakistan has become today but Pakistan itself, and the solution will come from nowhere but Pakistan itself. Let me be very clear, once again.

What you are saying means that all drug related violence being brought from Mexico is the fault of the Americans who are affected, and the number of illegal Mexicans crossing the border is also the fault of the American people and Government.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Even if Muslims were 25 million, Britain would still be a secular state. Muslims can't change the system of governance to their Shariah BS anyway.

Your missing the point Norweigian. What I am saying can be summed up in the following two sentances.

Secularism acceptable to 2.5 million Muslims in UK
Secularism acceptable to 200 million Muslims in Paklistan.

We the secularists have to win the argument on the ground with the average person who is not going to be interested in works of Thomas Paine, John Locke or Thomas Jefferson. We need to use simple logic to win our argument with people like Zaravan or Azad Kashmiri who represent the other side of the argument, Right now I am afraid they have the numbers.

@Maira La We know that. Secularism is the goal. We have to have a target to work toward. This will now take at least a generation if not longer.

 

[VCheng]

What you are saying means that all drug related violence being brought from Mexico is the fault of the Americans who are affected, and the number of illegal Mexicans crossing the border is also the fault of the American people and Government.

You are partly correct. The drug trade would not exist to the extent it does without the demand from US drug addicts. The Mexicans migrating illegally is more due to economic reasons, so probably due to the success of the US economy.

 

[Gufi]

You are partly correct. The drug trade would not exist to the extent it does without the demand from US drug addicts. The Mexicans migrating illegally is more due to economic reasons, so probably due to the success of the US economy.

Yes just like that Pakistan being blamed for the situation at hand is partly correct, but not the whole truth. The USSR, USA and KSA as well as other proxies are all to blame. Because your logic would also imply that 9/11 was the fault of the USA because it did happen in their borders. Other actors in every situation have to be partly blamed because the creators of a system are ultimately responsible for what happens. In very simple terms cars with a faulty ignition will be ultimately at fault, whether they outsource or produce themselves
And off the topic but Americans do end up employing illegal immigrants, and big companies are involved which throws the onus on America.

 

[Maira La]

We know that. Secularism is the goal. We have to have a target to work toward. This will now take at least a generation if not longer.

Respectfully disagree. Wealth is the goal. Secularism is a side effect. Trying to enforce secularism, or even reforming the constitution as a symbolic gesture, will further radicalize Pakistani society.

 

[Norwegian]

The Mexicans migrating illegally is more due to economic reasons, so probably due to the success of the US economy.

Due to "success" of the US economy?

 

[VCheng]

Yes just like that Pakistan being blamed for the situation at hand is partly correct, but not the whole truth. The USSR, USA and KSA as well as other proxies are all to blame. Because your logic would also imply that 9/11 was the fault of the USA because it did happen in their borders. Other actors in every situation have to be partly blamed because the creators of a system are ultimately responsible for what happens. In very simple terms cars with a faulty ignition will be ultimately at fault, whether they outsource or produce themselves
And off the topic but Americans do end up employing illegal immigrants, and big companies are involved which throws the onus on America.

What happens in USA is 100% the responsibility of USA, 9/11 included, as is the responsibility to respond to it. Can you say the same for Pakistan?

Due to "success" of the US economy?

Oh yeah, right, I forgot. The dollar died three years ago.

 

[Norwegian]

Respectfully disagree. Wealth is the goal. Secularism is a side effect. Trying to enforce secularism, or even reforming the constitution as a symbolic gesture, will further radicalize Pakistani society.

Secularism cannot be "enforced". Its nothing there to be "imposed" in secularism. Secularism means nothing but the separation of politics and religion. Get it straight in your thickheads.

 

[Gufi]

What happens in USA is 100% the responsibility of USA, 9/11 included, as is the responsibility to respond to it. Can you say the same for Pakistan?

So then the attacks on Afghanistan were acts of terrorism because the US agencies were at fault??