The new enemy...

[VCheng]

Ottoman empire and Hitler had limited reach, unlike America.

Actually the Ottoman Empire was the largest power in the the world of its time. Technological advances are inevitable, of course, but that is a different matter.

 

[Arsalan]

No more and no less than any other dominant nation in history. Just the same as the Ottoman Empire in Armenia, for example.

We are surely not going to compare with the early Romans or Napoleon or Mongols. We both know we are talking about the modern era, the countries we see TODAY, in these, US lead by some margin in such acts of global aggression and terrorism!!
PLUS, even that accounted for US is in the same league as the historically barbarian mongols and the likes of that.
UK were THE DOMINANT force of there time not so long ago, still US atrocities beat them by a long distance.

Again???
Did I miss something???

nah it is not that we had a fight!!
But it is always good to come to an agreement after a long debate

 

[VCheng]

We are surely not going to compare with the early Romans or Napoleon or Mongols. We both know we are talking about the modern era, the countries we see TODAY, in these, US lead by some margin in such acts of global aggression and terrorism!!
PLUS, even that accounted for US is in the same league as the historically barbarian mongols and the likes of that.
UK were THE DOMINANT force of there time not so long ago, still US atrocities beat them by a long distance.

We surely seem to be set on demonizing USA due to our own biases. But it's okay. With the role of he sole superpower on its shoulders, things like this are only to be expected. It doesn't matter much, since your right to hold a personal opinion is sacrosanct.

 

[Arsalan]

We surely seem to be set on demonizing USA due to our own biases. But it's okay. With the role of he sole superpower on its shoulders, things like this are only to be expected. It doesn't matter much, since your right to hold a personal opinion is sacrosanct.

Nah i am not backing out on this one
I am not SET to demonizing anyone here, just stating the facts. These can be compared to other modern ear powers, British empire, even Nazi Germany, you will see the US killings outnumbering them all, by a significant margin!!
And yes, they normally do so in name of RESPONSIBILITY so someone calling it the same here again is expected.

 

[VCheng]

Nah i am not backing out on this one
I am not SET to demonizing anyone here, just stating the facts. These can be compared to other modern ear powers, British empire, even Nazi Germany, you will see the US killings outnumbering them all, by a significant margin!!
And yes, they normally do so in name of RESPONSIBILITY so someone calling it the same here again is expected.

Sir, you are stating your opinions here, which is okay by me. Please do carry on for I do not need you to back off. My stance speaks for itself.

 

[T-123456]

Nobody has called Assad an angel, he's just a lesser evil.

Lesser evil?
Assad- 200.000+ dead.
ISIS - 20.000 dead at most?

 

[Levina]

Lesser evil?
Assad- 200.000+ dead.
ISIS - 20.000 dead at most?

The comparison was against America.

 

[T-123456]

The comparison was against America.

Oops,and thats why you are the teacher.

 

[Levina]

Oops,and thats why you are the teacher.

You bet!!!!


Can I just troll once on my thread??? Pls pls pretty pls.....

Dear Turk ...this suits you



( I'm just joking )

 

[Arsalan]

Sir, you are stating your opinions here, which is okay by me. Please do carry on for I do not need you to back off. My stance speaks for itself.

It is not speaking much in this case dear

 

[VCheng]

It is not speaking much in this case dear

Again, your opinion. If you chose not to listen or see, there is not much I can do about it.

My stance is clear, and please allow me to reiterate it:

In international geopolitics, things change all the time. At one time it served the US national interest to support the jihadis against the USSR. Then things changed after the breakup of the USSR. Then things changed again after 9/11. Now things will change again. And so on. What is your point? That USA at one time supported certain organizations? Of course, whatever serves the national interest. USA attacked Vietnam too, but now there is increasing trade. So showing a photo of the mujaheddin in the Oval Office has no importance today, except in the historical context, or to say that USA supported the predecessors of Al-Qaeda. At one time OBL may have been a supported agent. Then things changed.

What are we supposed to conclude here? Eternal damnation for USA because steps taken a quarter century ago have changed with the normal and inevitable state of flux of international geopolitics? No, it is the just normal way things are, and not just with USA, with all countries.

(I think this thread has reached an impasse, unless someone else takes it forward.)

 

[T-123456]

@levina you might like this video.

Fox News Angry Harvard Students Know Stuff - YouTube

 

[Levina]

At one time it served the US national interest to support the jihadis against the USSR. Then things changed after the breakup of the USSR. Then things changed again after 9/11. Now things will change again. And so on. What is your point? That USA at one time supported certain organizations? Of course, whatever serves the national interest. USA attacked Vietnam too, but now there is increasing trade. So showing a photo of the mujaheddin in the Oval Office has no importance today, except in the historical context, or to say that USA supported the predecessors of Al-Qaeda. At one time OBL may have been a supported agent. Then things changed.

You make it sound so simple.
In your opinion America's nefarious activities should be pardoned by the world because it has the right to protect itself( every other country be damned!!). I'm not sure you would 've supported a country like Russia/China with such zeal had they done similar peccadilloes.

 

[VCheng]

You make it sound so simple.

Actually, it is really that simple. Nobody needs to pardon any country including USA for its activities. Every country also has to face the backlash for whatever it does, and so does the US. Compare Russian actions in Chechnya or Ukraine, and Chinese actions in Tibet and the South China Sea with the same standards and you will see that what I have posted above is correct. Just because somebody does it better than anyone else is no reason to single any one out. And they all inevitably fall into decline too. Always.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Actually, it is really that simple. Nobody needs to pardon any country including USA for its activities. Every country also has to face the backlash for whatever it does, and so does the US. Compare Russian actions in Chechnya or Ukraine, and Chinese actions in Tibet and the South China Sea with the same standards and you will see that what I have posted above is correct. Just because somebody does it better than anyone else is no reason to single any one out. And they all inevitably fall into decline too. Always.

I don't have a problem with USA or any other country pursuing their self interest. That is entirely expected I only wish Pakistan would do the same. However what annoys me is the short term memory that US exhibits with regards to Pak.

Almost all the terrorism coming out of Pakistan is from the very area that was developed as the staging ground for the Afghan Jihad. Most of our problems today in Pakistan are also connected with the US-Saudi-Pak organized jihad against the Soviets. I quote Zbigniew Brzezinski former USA NSA.

Brzezinski: Regret what? That secret operation was an excellent idea. It had the effect of drawing the Russians into the Afghan trap and you want me to regret it? The day that the Soviets officially crossed the border, I wrote to President Carter: We now have the opportunity of giving to the USSR its Vietnam war. Indeed, for almost 10 years, Moscow had to carry on a war unsupportable by the government, a conflict that brought about the demoralization and finally the breakup of the Soviet empire.

Q: And neither do you regret having supported the Islamic [integrisme], having given arms and advice to future terrorists?

Brzezinski: What is most important to the history of the world? The Taliban or the collapse of the Soviet empire? Some stirred-up Moslems or the liberation of Central Europe and the end of the cold war?

It would be nice today that this fact was acknowledged rather than picking on Pakistan as the global "terror central" and source of all problems. It annoys me today to find East Europeans swamping UK and then I think how Pakistan has become the bad guy when the (Afghan blood ) and Pakistan today are paying the prce for this. I don't expect any god damn thankl yous but at least own up top your own role in the royal mess up we have in Pakistan today.