the myth of punjab domination

[ghoul]

True, you guys are called potoharis rather then punjabis by us. For outsiders all these groups are punjabis. Though there is no movement to make any potohar province. But if KPK is going to be divided then why not punjab. I personally want hazara province to piss of afghanis. At least then they will stop including Hazara in their maps.

6 provinces out of punjab seem right. Hopefully punjabi card will die with new provinces.

Tribes are still important, only maybe in urban centers they are not. And cities are multi ethnnic anyways. And 70-80% of potohar population live in rural areas.

6 is just way too much. 4 should be fine I think. Bahawalpur should be a different province altogether. If a northern Punjab or Potohar province gets made, then the Awan dominated area of Mianwali such as Kalabagh should also be included in it as the Mianwali awans speak "Awankari" rather than Saraiki.

And who cares about those Afghanis? Most of their online trolls are living in western countries on refugee visas and mostly living on welfare. They have no clue about Hazara at all. Southern Hazara people are ethnic Potoharis like Karlals, Gujjars and Gakhars.

 

[Kabira]

6 is just way too much. 4 should be fine I think. Bahawalpur should be a different province altogether. If a northern Punjab or Potohar province gets made, then the Awan dominated area of Mianwali such as Kalabagh should also be included in it as the Mianwali awans speak "Awankari" rather than Saraiki.

And who cares about those Afghanis? Most of their online trolls are living in western countries on refugee visas and mostly living on welfare. They have no clue about Hazara at all. Southern Hazara people are ethnic Potoharis like Karlals, Gujjars and Gakhars.

Mianwali will be included with Seraiki/Multan. Never seen any hindko calling himself potohari. Hindko is distinct dialect from personal experience. Potohari is more closer to central punjabi. But again it depends because i have seen people from Faisalabad speaking just like indian punjabis and at first it can be difficult to understand for us.

I have no idea about Awankari, there are dozens of dialects like that all over punjab. I know about hindko and potohari because of family relations with these groups.

 

[ghoul]

Mianwali will be included with Seraiki/Multan. Never seen any hindko calling himself potohari. Hindko is distinct dialect from personal experience. Potohari is more closer to central punjabi. But again it depends because i have seen people from Faisalabad speaking just like indian punjabis and at first it can be difficult to understand for us.

I have no idea about Awankari, there are dozens of dialects like that all over punjab. I know about hindko and potohari because of family relations with these groups.

. I saw a linguistic report by a British ethnographer which showed that some dialects in Chakwal and attock like dhani for instance are actually dialects of Hindko rather than potohari. Chakwali dialects sound a lot like Hindko. No wonder many ppl mistook that Chakwal group song on coke studio for Hindko

But yeah hindkowana are distinct people but ethnically are potohari and pathan

And mianwali based awans wrote many letters to newspaper that they don't want to be in seraiki province and consider themselves potoharis like their neighbours in Chakwal

 

[Kabira]

. I saw a linguistic report by a British ethnographer which showed that some dialects in Chakwal and attock like dhani for instance are actually dialects of Hindko rather than potohari. Chakwali dialects sound a lot like Hindko. No wonder many ppl mistook that Chakwal group song on coke studio for Hindko

But yeah hindkowana are distinct people but ethnically are potohari and pathan

And mianwali based awans wrote many letters to newspaper that they don't want to be in seraiki province and consider themselves potoharis like their neighbours in Chakwal

I wonder if little differences will mean no province is made? We see this in Sindh and even small district of Mianwali. Mianwali has always been included Seraiki suba movement. Doubt awan letters will mean anything.

 

[ghoul]

I wonder if little differences will mean no province is made? We see this in Sindh and even small district of Mianwali. Mianwali has always been included Seraiki suba movement. Doubt awan letters will mean anything.

There were shutter down strikes in Mianwali when Seraiki province was anounced. It was Multanis deciding the future of Mianwali basically, and thus a lot of letters criticized the decision. And awans are big players in Mianwali. In Kalabagh, no one can win the election without the blessings of Kalabagh nawab. Some of their villages are quite influential like Wan Bacharran.

 

[Kabira]

There were shutter down strikes in Mianwali when Seraiki province was anounced. It was Multanis deciding the future of Mianwali basically, and thus a lot of letters criticized the decision. And awans are big players in Mianwali. In Kalabagh, no one can win the election without the blessings of Kalabagh nawab. Some of their villages are quite influential like Wan Bacharran.

Do Niazis want to be part of Seraiki suba? Also you are right, thats why i wonder what will happen to Hazara province. Because many areas are pashtun majority. Anyway PML Q is big on more provinces, i wonder why? Lol If niazis and awans are against it then no way they will include Mianwali in to Seraiki suba.

Read this

Protest in Mianwali, they say Shujhat should include Gujrat in Seraiki suba instead of Mianwali. I think Q knows they can't win all over punjab unlike N. So divided punjab is their best option to be in power somewhere.

 

[ghoul]

Do Niazis want to be part of Seraiki suba? Also you are right, thats why i wonder what will happen to Hazara province. Because many areas are pashtun majority. Anyway PML Q is big on more provinces, i wonder why? Lol If niazis and awans are against it then no way they will include Mianwali in to Seraiki suba.

Read this

View attachment 83072

Protest in Mianwali, they say Shujhat should include Gujrat in Seraiki suba instead of Mianwali. I think Q knows they can't win all over punjab unlike N. So divided punjab is their best option to be in power somewhere.

They're trying to get separatist support lol. Just like PTI and PML-N used sooba hazara rhetoric to get votes of hazarewal. Of course once elected, they didn't give a rat's a** about Hazara province. As they say in urdu/punjabi "phuddu laga diya" haha.

And I think Niazis want to join KPK, and Awans want to join Potohar.

 

[Samandri]

6 is just way too much. 4 should be fine I think. Bahawalpur should be a different province altogether. If a northern Punjab or Potohar province gets made, then the Awan dominated area of Mianwali such as Kalabagh should also be included in it as the Mianwali awans speak "Awankari" rather than Saraiki.

And who cares about those Afghanis? Most of their online trolls are living in western countries on refugee visas and mostly living on welfare. They have no clue about Hazara at all. Southern Hazara people are ethnic Potoharis like Karlals, Gujjars and Gakhars.

Pashto is also spoken in kalabagh by khattaks.

 

[Kabira]

They're trying to get separatist support lol. Just like PTI and PML-N used sooba hazara rhetoric to get votes of hazarewal. Of course once elected, they didn't give a rat's a** about Hazara province. As they say in urdu/punjabi "phuddu laga diya" haha.

And I think Niazis want to join KPK, and Awans want to join Potohar.

Yep, Q have been big supporter of more provinces especially in Punjab. PPP have backed out because of Karachi province, they will be seen as hypocrate supporting more provinces but against dividing Sindh.

But Q have no such a fear.

 

[ghoul]

Pashto is also spoken in kalabagh by khattaks.

Yes that's why ANP doesn't want to make Kalabagh dam as it wants Kalabagh to become a part of KPK first. I'm not sure about the demographics there but I think Awans dominate by numbers. And the nawabs of Kalabagh have ruled the region for the past 300 years, but their reign is said to have been real rough and bloody. They got attacked by the Sikhs as well. I read a book by some British guy recently, and he mentioned Kalabagh being a Potohari area with awans maliks, ghebas, etc as the local people.

I believe Khattaks are migrants rather than local people and Kalabagh has always been a Potohari area. It was populated and ruled by the Gakhars, but Abdali attacked them in Mianwali from whence they fled. As soon as Gakhars vacated the area, the Awans from Talagang moved in. I believe Khattaks must have also moved in after Gakhars left.

 

[Samandri]

Yes that's why ANP doesn't want to make Kalabagh dam as it wants Kalabagh to become a part of KPK first. I'm not sure about the demographics there but I think Awans dominate by numbers. And the nawabs of Kalabagh have ruled the region for the past 300 years, but their reign is said to have been real rough and bloody. They got attacked by the Sikhs as well. I read a book by some British guy recently, and he mentioned Kalabagh being a Potohari area with awans maliks, ghebas, etc as the local people.

I believe Khattaks are migrants rather than local people and Kalabagh has always been a Potohari area. It was populated and ruled by the Gakhars, but Abdali attacked them in Mianwali from whence they fled. As soon as Gakhars vacated the area, the Awans from Talagang moved in. I believe Khattaks must have also moved in after Gakhars left.

Nope, actually khattak villages of bhangi khel were once part of kohat. They are not recent economic migrants and kalabagh was not under any awan nawab before advent of british.
And i have checked attock gazetteer 1901 in library to check about your claim whether pathans of attock are recent economic migrants. You are wrong, there is quite large pashtun population in attock in 1901, about 38 thousands (would be around (3.8 lakh nowadays). Not economic migrants, but wrested the area from awans in 18th century. Some families are even older than that.
@save_ghenda

 

[Samandri]

Bhangi khel and other khattak clans moved to karak and kalabagh (kalabagh lies west of indus and is contineous with karak) from shawal valley of waziristan, nearly 800 years ago. Khattaks and bannuchis are considered earliest pashtun settlers in southren KPK.

 

[Kabira]

Nope, actually khattak villages of bhangi khel were once part of kohat. They are not recent economic migrants and kalabagh was not under any awan nawab before advent of british.
And i have checked attock gazetteer 1901 in library to check about your claim whether pathans of attock are recent economic migrants. You are wrong, there is quite large pashtun population in attock in 1901, about 38 thousands (would be around (3.8 lakh nowadays). Not economic migrants, but wrested the area from awans in 18th century. Some families are even older than that.
@save_ghenda

There are many pashtuns in Attock. Pakistani crickter Hammad Azam from Attock is of pashtun origin. Attock district also have sizeable population of hindko speakers.

 

[ghoul]

Nope, actually khattak villages of bhangi khel were once part of kohat. They are not recent economic migrants and kalabagh was not under any awan nawab before advent of british.
And i have checked attock gazetteer 1901 in library to check about your claim whether pathans of attock are recent economic migrants. You are wrong, there is quite large pashtun population in attock in 1901, about 38 thousands (would be around (3.8 lakh nowadays). Not economic migrants, but wrested the area from awans in 18th century. Some families are even older than that.
@save_ghenda

Read "chief families of note in Delhi, jallandhar, derajaat and Peshawar division" by some Brit guy. It details the history abt kaka agh nawab. It predates Brits. And awans weren't exactly displaced as they're quite big shots in chaach, particularly shamsabad.

 

[Samandri]

There are many pashtuns in Attock. Pakistani crickter Hammad Azam from Attock is of pashtun origin. Attock district also have sizeable population of hindko speakers.

Yup. They are landowners rather than economic migrants. I had doubts due to ghoul's claims but its cleared after checking 1901 gazetter of attock. I have little information about attock but i have very good info about mianwali as i have frequently visited it, kalabagh , isa khel town and chasma are picnic spots for us marwats. Isa khel people also frequently visit lakki .

Read "chief families of note in Delhi, jallandhar, derajaat and Peshawar division" by some Brit guy. It details the history abt kaka agh nawab. It predates Brits. And awans weren't exactly displaced as they're quite big shots in chaach, particularly shamsabad.

I will check it but whatever villages are in the possession of pathans/pashtuns in chach, they have wrested it from awans through wars. It shouldnt surprise you, 18th century was the end of mughal empire's presence in attock which prevented any settlement/occupation of areas east of indus by pashtuns. 18th century is also marked by rise of afghan empire, thats why sarhang niazis established themeselves east of indus in 18th century. Jadoons, tareens, mashwanis etc also entered into hazara in 18th century.