The Fraud in Chinese Air-Conditioning

[Hamartia Antidote]

I think you are living in a hole.
Every air condition in Saudi needs to be AHRI certified in addition to SASO, GMark and Energy Star rating.

Thumbs up for Saudi requiring https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_Star
https://defence.pk/threads/team-usa.306182/page-53#post-5924707

 

[somebozo]

We have our own energy star system

For a normal consumer like me, are the gree and haier A/C's available in Pakistan good quality?

LAGTHA HAI SIRF MITSUBISHI YA DAIKAN HEE LENA PAREGA

Stick to Japanese, Thailand or Korean.
Gree and Haier sold in Pakistan may not necessarily be the same quality as those sold in middle east.
Also anything with Panasonic or Siam Mitsubishi inverter compressor in good.

The quality of copper tubes is important in air-conditioner and there is no Chinese copper tube manufacturer which comes close to the quality of international market. Even Iranian company Qaem makes better quality copper tubes than China...

 

[Hellfire]

Bhai hum tu khanoo main bhi logon ko gadhay ka gosht khila daytay hain ... Aap AC ki baat kar rahay hain.

Good one !!!!

how do Indian suppliers stand on the scale, equally unethical, worse or better?

Burj Khalifa is air-conditioned by Voltas - a TATA subsidiary ... as also the fact that roughly all the top air conditioners in India use compressor of Voltas ....!!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burj_Khalifa

But then that is one company .. we have some people who give low quality stuff too .. but its changed a lot now as more and more manufacturers realise that if they don't give quality they yield the market to Chinese goods which are cheaper and as useless in quality at times.

 

[MilSpec]

I think you are living in a hole.
Every air condition in Saudi needs to be AHRI certified in addition to SASO, GMark and Energy Star rating.

Alright genius, going back to your original post, your first sentence says about your capacity tolerance of 5% which seems to be consistent for AHRI 550/590 which is used for Water Chillers both air and water cooled types. The tolerance is about -5% to +2% on capacity and similar 5% on EER or kw/ton at full load (sec 5.6 of the standard tol1 eq). If that is consistent with the the standard to which your units were tested, then the manufacturer's unit satisfies the test criterion. And yes in HVAC industry the advertised capacity or efficiency is the rated capacity and efficiency, where the actual can fall under the negative tolerances available. You will see the same with almost all manufacturers trane, daikin, carrier, york, mcquay, etc and not just chinese ones at least at full load operations.

 

[Tipu7]

I have two air conditioner of GREE with one ton capacity (DC inverter) in my house.
They are working fine......
Satisfactory cooling and satisfactory bill......

 

[MilSpec]

Good one !!!!



Burj Khalifa is air-conditioned by Voltas - a TATA subsidiary ..

Burj Khalifa HVAC is provided by Trane. There are about 42000 tons of refrigeration provided by Trane Centravac Chillers along with some RTAC and CGAM tand by units.

I don't think VOltas has done all of it it had some workshare in the residential part of the building.

 

[Beast]

We have our own energy star system

Stick to Japanese, Thailand or Korean.
Gree and Haier sold in Pakistan may not necessarily be the same quality as those sold in middle east.
Also anything with Panasonic or Siam Mitsubishi inverter compressor in good.

The quality of copper tubes is important in air-conditioner and there is no Chinese copper tube manufacturer which comes close to the quality of international market. Even Iranian company Qaem makes better quality copper tubes than China...

That is BS. There are plenty of Chinese companies making Air condition and I am sure you want to maximise profit by choosing the Cheapest. There are reputable Chinese brand like Haier ,TCL and Midea which has business expanded worldwide. There are not the cheapest but their good quality are widely recognized.

 

[Roybot]

Burj Khalifa HVAC is provided by Trane. There are about 42000 tons of refrigeration provided by Trane Centravac Chillers along with some RTAC and CGAM tand by units.

I don't think VOltas has done all of it it had some workshare in the residential part of the building.

http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/...bai-downturn-voltass-latest-engineering-feat/

 

[MilSpec]

http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/...bai-downturn-voltass-latest-engineering-feat/

10000 tons by Voltas, compare to 42000 tons by trane.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/...bai-downturn-voltass-latest-engineering-feat/

http://www.constructionweekonline.com/article-4822-chillers-in-the-burj-dubai/

Trane has gone to great heights on Emaar Properties’ iconic Burj Dubai, having supplied and installed chillers on the 155th and 159th floors.

What was supplied?

• 159th floor: Two scroll CCUN-206 chillers. Weight: 1240kg. Dimensions: 2520mm x 880mm x 1240mm.
• 155th floor: Two CGAN-450 chillers. Weight: 1267kg. Dimensions: 3200mm x 1100mm x 2100mm.
• Basement communications room: RTAD-115 air-cooled screw chiller. Weight: 3655kg. Dimensions: 4426mm x 2260mm x 2095mm.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trane

 

[cloud_9]

Alright genius, going back to your original post, your first sentence says about your capacity tolerance of 5% which seems to be consistent for AHRI 550/590 which is used for Water Chillers both air and water cooled types. The tolerance is about -5% to +2% on capacity and similar 5% on EER or kw/ton at full load (sec 5.6 of the standard tol1 eq). If that is consistent with the the standard to which your units were tested, then the manufacturer's unit satisfies the test criterion. And yes in HVAC industry the advertised capacity or efficiency is the rated capacity and efficiency, where the actual can fall under the negative tolerances available. You will see the same with almost all manufacturers trane, daikin, carrier, york, mcquay, etc and not just chinese ones at least at full load operations.

Even the AS/NZS standard states Variation% <-5% for Cooling Capacity,not sure how the Saudis expect a Variation%<+5% from a manufacturer.But thumb of rule is that all Chinese manufacturer data should be validated onshore.

 

[somebozo]

That is BS. There are plenty of Chinese companies making Air condition and I am sure you want to maximise profit by choosing the Cheapest. There are reputable Chinese brand like Haier ,TCL and Midea which has business expanded worldwide. There are not the cheapest but their good quality are widely recognized.

Nope I am looking to buy the best..that's why I changed to Japanese ODM...if you read my post properly...I said..there are handful of high quality manufacturers and they already have their market set..so they will not sell you out of factory...the intention here is to save money..by buying directly out of factory...and not the dealer in between...go back and read my post again..don't be sentimental.

Burj Khalifa is air-conditioned by Voltas - a TATA subsidiary ... as also the fact that roughly all the top air conditioners in India use compressor of Voltas ....!!

My dear I have tried Voltas split unit and it is crap...also Copeland compressor Made in India is crap...I can trust brand products coming out of China..brand products coming out of India are still crap!

I have two air conditioner of GREE with one ton capacity (DC inverter) in my house.
They are working fine......
Satisfactory cooling and satisfactory bill......

Yes branded products may be better..but I have see side by side comparison of Samsung and Gree..and still Samsung wins. Also there are some very high EER Japanese units available powered directly by Solar.

Alright genius, going back to your original post, your first sentence says about your capacity tolerance of 5% which seems to be consistent for AHRI 550/590 which is used for Water Chillers both air and water cooled types. The tolerance is about -5% to +2% on capacity and similar 5% on EER or kw/ton at full load (sec 5.6 of the standard tol1 eq). If that is consistent with the the standard to which your units were tested, then the manufacturer's unit satisfies the test criterion. And yes in HVAC industry the advertised capacity or efficiency is the rated capacity and efficiency, where the actual can fall under the negative tolerances available. You will see the same with almost all manufacturers trane, daikin, carrier, york, mcquay, etc and not just chinese ones at least at full load operations.

Even the AS/NZS standard states Variation% <-5% for Cooling Capacity,not sure how the Saudis expect a Variation%<+5% from a manufacturer.But thumb of rule is that all Chinese manufacturer data should be validated onshore.

I don't care about the standards..I am demanding high engineering quality..which means the actual capacity unit..does not fall below the advertised label...variations should only be on the positive side...there will always be variations with in the same batch as well...

 

[HttpError]

I think "General" USA is very famous for AC in middle east as well as Gibson.

 

[somebozo]

I think "General" USA is very famous for AC in middle east as well as Gibson.

Yes they are both made locally by AL Essa and excellent quality.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

I think "General" USA is very famous for AC in middle east as well as Gibson.

Its hard to make a US company recommendation since most new construction uses integrated whole home units.