THE FALL OF OTTOMAN EMPIRE & LONGING

[forummurat]

I see some comments of some degenerate and parasitic Turks in this forum.. I respect ox the more than them.. The name of "Ottoman" make very angry these types of ox like the red color.. Ottoman is their red line.. They begin the slanders, lies, prejudices, hatreds and ignorant perspectives when the hear the name of Ottoman.. Really feel sorry for these ignorant, pseudo-scientists !!! But i will give a bad news them.. "Your scientific! west" is crashing and Ottoman coming back as the more greater !!!

 

[Quasar]

 

[TheCommander]

Well armstrong, we may disagree. But I think both of us have already made our point... Going further may only lead to unnecessary diversions.. And we are not giving the chance to native Turkish members to debate about this...

Let's see what they think of this pan Islamism vs nationalism and Ataturk vs Islamism

Summarily, in my opinion, Islamists are there just to drag the world 1400 years back and nothing more. Same for Pan islamism and other BS. We live in 2012 not 700 with Ayesha-Ali, Yazid and other tribal warlords fighting nor do we want that system.

King Solomon;

I know it is really really hard to convince someone who already set his mind. I am not going to try to convince you. What I am gonna do is some clarification about the Islam. Today our one of the important problems in the muslim world is that we misunderstand and misinterpret the islam. Therefore, we are not properly representing the Islam and this causes a perception that the islam is a religion that drags the world back. How might it be possible that a religion`s first revealed verse saying “Read in and with the Name of your Lord, Who has created (Al-ALAQ [THE CLOT] Part 30, Surah 96 (1))” and the prophet of this religion encouraged his companions and ummah about education, science, knowledge can drag the world back? The prophet Muhammad (pbuh) said that “Information is obligatory every Muslim to learn” and “loss of knowledge/ science is the property of Muslims, so go where you can find it, even if it is in China”

If you carefully look at the history (without biases), you can see that the improvement of science, technology, knowledge in technical sciences, medicine, astronomy, algebra and chemistry so on so forth are because of the muslim world (look at the Dark Ages or Dark Era of Europe. While they call this era as the Dark Ages, the muslims call it the Golden Ages, think about it, why is this like that). Today the western countries owe muslims for their the science, knowledge and technology they were able to improve. The western people got the knowledge and learned from the muslims and improved it while the muslims abandoned the science, knowledge and technology.

If you are so willing to find a religion which may have potential to drag the world back, the Christianity has that potential. Check the history and answer my question “Why did the European countries separate the church and state from one another and restrict the power of the church?” (My guess is you are a Jewish (correct me if I am wrong), but you can still answer my question)

***

About Pan Islamism if you define the Pan-Islamism as "A desire or plan for the union of all Mohammedan nations for the conquest of the world" then I would say this is and should a GOAL for the muslims to reach. Our prophet Hz. Muhammad (pbuh) says that "One day my name will reach wherever the sun rise and set". We believe this will happen and work for the sake of our Prophet. Most importantly, the Islam came to all nation, therefore, the Pan Islamism is necessary for all muslims to fulfill our prophet hadith.

 

[Ottoman-Turk]

we dont need to compare an empire that lasted more than 600 years to a sick country called USSR that alsted very little , we dont need to compare or Russia , if we could call Ottomans sick man , a man can get sick after 600+ years but USSR got f...d in 60 years so i dont know you can compare son

Good attempt at derailing the topic. A usual tactic of trolls when they run out of arguments.

I won't offend any Turkish members here by comparing USSR, Russian Empire or Russia for that matter with Turkey/Ottoman Empire.

ALSO REMEMBER THE MARCH OF THE JANISARIES TO MOSCOW , HAHAAH DID YOU COME CLOSE TO ISTANBUL AT OUR WORST TIMES?

 

[explorer9]

Neo-Ottomans back inn the form of AKP !!!

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

It is quite sad we lose the greatest history of Ottoman Empire over thousand years rule the world, we shall be back !

This pakistani dude wants to steal Turk history .

Somebody tell this guy Pakistanis were not Ottomons. It was the Turks form Turkey .

 

[Ottoman-Turk]

i dont support AKP , myself but i like all Turkish Empires .

To Solomon , the reason why we couldnt industrialise alot is because of 2 main things , 1. is nationalism of different ethnicities 2. is we had so many wars , so many casualties aswell , we got tired , spent too much money , as you know our empire wasnt like british which focused on economy that much it was invade , and then build an economy on that land , also although in WW1 we wasnt the top 5 power in the world , we was still a strong empire that gave big casualties to enemies , also we industrialized in the last centuries abit , we were making railways , building modern things but we were way behind UK and others at the time , but even though , if our side won WW1 today the world would have been very different . Also we didnt rape many people languages like many colonial empires did although we could have

Neo-Ottomans back inn the form of AKP !!!

 

[Saleem]

the duchy (?!) was moscow a tributary of the muslims for a long, long time....there were musjids in Karkhov and Kiev at one time...no trace remains....
regarding "modernizing"....from the sunni islamic perspective we ned to understand that all regimes followng the rashidun were illegitimate --- the hereditary nature of government is illegal and abhorrent ---so the khalifas following the rashidun had some elements of legitimacy but, as a whole, were illegitimate....this stems from the nature of sunni islam --- it gives principles and guidelines --- it then expects the person or community to interpret them in line with the belief that everyone is responsible to God for their actions personally and that there will be no intercession by anyone----it is this belief in personal responsibility for one's actions that is expect to drive people to follow the right path -the sunnah.....the successor khalifas had to pacify and placate the populace to continue their rule ----they did this by 1) introducing "religion" (islam is a faith not a religion) and having people follow the mullahs (who khalifas and sultans tried to coopt and bribe --remember in sunni islam mullahs do not have divine sanction unlike priests is other religions who do claim such sanction); and by 2) introducing strict controls on thought and intellect to prevent 'sedition' against the "religion' (in reality the illegitimate rule of the khalifas) ---this, and not "religion", is the real reason why the osmanli develet (and other muslims regimes for that matter) were left so far behind in technology and science.
this continues to this day ----in pakistan you have charlatans who claim legitimacy on the basis of heredity and a populace who worship them on the same basis ----and they get what they are working for, as promised by the Quran: "this is what their hands have earned"....

islamic concept of nationhood is on the basis of faith not race or ethnicity etc.

 

[Don Jaguar]

Fetih 1453 any online link?

 

[explorer9]

was Ottoman empire the longest functional empire?

We all must know that nation building takes decades and in my view Ottoman Infrastructure (even depleted & vintage) helped modern Turkey to evolve as a stronger Nation State.There is much to proud of Ottoman Legacy and the one i like most is Mahtar band

 

[ovarel]

This pakistani dude wants to steal Turk history .

Somebody tell this guy Pakistanis were not Ottomons. It was the Turks form Turkey .

Though Ottomans preserved Turkish culture and language,it was not a nation-state. Thats why it fell apart with the waves of nationalism. If you consider that it held the Europeans and Russians in their places so that delayed foreign hegemony in the region,you may understand the love and respect for the Empire.

 

[Ottoman-Turk]

RUSSIAN - TURKISH MEHTER TOGETHER

Mehter in toronto

MEHTER JAPAN

 

[Deno]

Though Ottomans preserved Turkish culture and language,it was not a nation-state. Thats why it fell apart with the waves of nationalism. If you consider that it held the Europeans and Russians in their places so that delayed foreign hegemony in the region,you may understand the love and respect for the Empire.

Ottoman preserved Turkish culture? only between first century and the last decades of Empire

The ordinary Turks (Turkmen) did not have a sense of belonging to a ruling ethnic group. In particular, they had a confused sense of self-image. Who were they: Turks, Muslims or Ottomans? Their literature was sometimes Persian, sometimes Arabic, but always courtly and elitist. There was always a huge social and cultural distance between the Imperial centre and the Anatolian periphery. As Bernard Lewis expressed it: "in the Imperial society of the Ottomans the ethnic term Turk was little used, and then chiefly in a rather derogatory sense, to designate the Turcoman nomads or, later, the ignorant and uncouth Turkish-speaking peasants of the Anatolian villages."

 

[ovarel]

Ottoman preserved Turkish culture? only between first century and the last decades of Empire

The ordinary Turks (Turkmen) did not have a sense of belonging to a ruling ethnic group. In particular, they had a confused sense of self-image. Who were they: Turks, Muslims or Ottomans? Their literature was sometimes Persian, sometimes Arabic, but always courtly and elitist. There was always a huge social and cultural distance between the Imperial centre and the Anatolian periphery. As Bernard Lewis expressed it: "in the Imperial society of the Ottomans the ethnic term Turk was little used, and then chiefly in a rather derogatory sense, to designate the Turcoman nomads or, later, the ignorant and uncouth Turkish-speaking peasants of the Anatolian villages."

Ottomans applied sharia in society and Turkish customary law inherited from Seljuks in state affairs. Turkmens(if we consider them the real Turks that would make most of us non-Turks) were not only ignored but even killed because of political reasons. Again,Ottomans was not a nation-state but they preserved Turkish culture. They spoke Ottoman Turkish. Persian and Arabic were used in literature but the official language was Turkish. When Mehmed II said that he was going to conquest Istanbul,did he speak Turkish or other languages?

And Turkmen nomads at that time had a sense of identity. They sold us out to Timurids in Battle of Ankara. After that the State screwed them.

The Ottoman culture was an imperial culture that shares many parts of other cultures. The official culture was Turkish. But if you want to see some aspects of a typical nation-state and nationalism in Ottomans,you will waste your time. It was an empire with an imperial culture mainly Turkish.

 

[IbnAlwaled]

here is some basic knowledge on a few vital issues for ...

Düyun-u Umumiye - Vikipedi

The Ottoman Public Debt Administration (OPDA) (Ottoman Turkish: Düyun-u Umumiye-i Osmaniye Varidat-ı Muhassasa İdaresi, or simply Düyun-u Umumiye as it was popularly known), was a European-controlled organization that was established in 1881 to collect the payments which the Ottoman Empire owed to European companies in the Ottoman public debt. The OPDA became a vast, essentially independent bureaucracy within the Ottoman bureaucracy, run by the creditors. It employed 5,000 officials who collected taxes that were then turned over to the European creditors.[1] The OPDA played an important role in Ottoman financial affairs. Also, it was an intermediary with European companies seeking investment opportunities in the Ottoman Empire. In 1900, the OPDA was financing many railways and other industrial projects. The financial and commercial privileges of the non-Muslim foreigners were protected with the capitulations of the Ottoman Empire.

Capitulations of the Ottoman Empire

Ottoman military reform efforts

European balance of power - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I understood that