The Extreme 996 Work Culture in China

[MH.Yang]

These two terms are largely synonyms. Even in China, they are used almost interexchangably.

They have the same goal, which is remove the inequality among human beings. As the result, they have the same economic policy: planned economy, which is inevitable if you want to remove the very source that makes the society unequal - - the desire for profit by each person. But this very source is also the source of vitality of market, without which the price is no longer able to serve as a signal to guide more efficient, thus more profitable use of scarce resources.

But if you truly want to be nitpicking, what I just said isn't entirely accurate. If you think communism means Marxism communism, then communism has no economic policy. Marx didn't bother to speculate on how communistic economy would work at all. He believed that communism will arrive naturally and inevitably so to him it seems to be pointless to discuss how its economy would work. It was only when Lenin took over Russia, he suddenly faced this question that Marx never gave an answer to. Naturally he did what a socialist would do : create a planned economy, which quickly led to disasters and prompted him to adopt NEP, which looks a lot like what Deng did in 1978. Unfortunately, Stalin abandoned it soon after his death. Stalin apparently wanted a pure socialism.

People are desiring equality, not socialism.

If communism and socialism were really the same, Lenin and Trotsky would not break up.

Well, I won't argue with you about this issue, because theoretical argument often consumes too much time.
I just need to say this: China will do something at this stage, continue to adhere to the public ownership economy as the main body, improve people's welfare, narrow the gap between the rich and the poor, reduce exploitation and develop higher productivity.
This is the socialist road that China will continue to follow.

 

[MH.Yang]

People are desiring equality, not socialism.

The reason why we choose to be a Communist is that we want to create an equal and fair world. A world without oppression, exploitation, poverty and war.
Since we were born in this world, we must realize our value in our short life. Being a Communist is the path we choose.
We will all die in the end, but our death will be as bright as a meteor. Because a Communist is born of great, he must die of great.

 

[V. Makarov]

In 2017, I worked in Shenzhen Yingdali Technology Co., Ltd. as a salesperson. I'll answer this question

Let me tell you how Chinese technology companies force employees 996.
According to Chinese law, they leave work at 5 p.m, but you can volunteer to work overtime, and overtime must be paid.
Even with overtime pay, most Chinese don't like overtime.
But most Chinese technology companies will provide free dinner at 6 p.m., as shown in the figure below, so many employees will work overtime for an hour and go home after dinner.

View attachment 774732

View attachment 774733

Most Chinese technology companies offer free wash clothes ticket at 7 p.m., so, you know.
Most Chinese technology companies provide taxis at 8 p.m
Most Chinese technology companies offer double overtime pay at 9 p.m., so, you know.
...
It's 996 now. I go to work at 9 a.m. and get off at 9 p.m.

This is just fuckin' sad. Time with family, or personal entertainment, has no price.

 

[Splurgenxs]

In 2017, I worked in Shenzhen Yingdali Technology Co., Ltd. as a salesperson. I'll answer this question

Let me tell you how Chinese technology companies force employees 996.
According to Chinese law, they leave work at 5 p.m, but you can volunteer to work overtime, and overtime must be paid.
Even with overtime pay, most Chinese don't like overtime.
But most Chinese technology companies will provide free dinner at 6 p.m., as shown in the figure below, so many employees will work overtime for an hour and go home after dinner.

View attachment 774732

View attachment 774733

Most Chinese technology companies offer free wash clothes ticket at 7 p.m., so, you know.
Most Chinese technology companies provide taxis at 8 p.m
Most Chinese technology companies offer double overtime pay at 9 p.m., so, you know.
...
It's 996 now. I go to work at 9 a.m. and get off at 9 p.m.

Insightful , in India it is also the same , with cabs and lunch, at least for big companies with in house mess.
But for some reason the double overtime pay never caught on here.

In India very rare you get paid for overtime, So people naturally are brash about working overtime , and people that want to work overtime find a second freelance gig .

 

[serenity]

Common to work until 9pm in Australia. Law companies or business consulting. Some think 9pm is funny at some levels of the pay is amazing. Of course also free dinner voucher for $20 to $50 and taxis too.

In China, the engineering field is hyper competitive. It is not just about 996 but 996 and also results!

This is for top tier companies though. Most will have conditions and expectations of career progress and results in many domains of measuring results. If not by certain level at a certain age and conducted and completed certain types of jobs, you are gone. But this is for top companies again and middle level engineer to middle management.

For lower level companies it is much more relaxing.

I remember working on some projects involving residential and one commercial project. Morning starts around 8am or 9am depending on the engineer's job and title. Tea, snacks, breaks, smoking, chatting, very comfortable (second tier city roughly population around 5 to 10 million). Lunch break for whole hour and afternoon nap break. Work until 5pm to 6pm depending how much work on typical day. After 6pm occasionally.

Our lunch and dinners all paid for. Some are catering services who deliver boxed meals of very nice quality (I liked it but many complain wasn't good enough but honestly about $20 lunch in Australia level of quality). Some worksites on construction site will have cafeteria food with chefs there and whenever you are hungry, grab a bite. No limit to how much you can eat but of course no one wants to look like a pig. Also cafeteria quality will be one level lower although I am a bit of a pig and think it's great. Free food!

Technology companies particularly in digital technologies is a bit fancier mostly especially top tier or large companies. Those jobs are dream jobs. You need to believe everyone wants to do 996 to maintain their spot otherwise literally 1 million other Chinese engineers wish for their position and are smart enough and qualified enough for it.

You can choose to start your own business or go with lesser company. Pay is also lower then and no prestige. If you say you work for top companies, finding partners becomes a lot easier when it comes to their parents and family approval hahaha. Lots more perks too. First class travel. First class hotels. Expense accounts and personal driver and nice cars.

Some outside will think 996 is cruel. This isn't forced on anyone and is a result of too many skilled people competing for same jobs rather than new businesses starting to make use of those people. I would say most of Chinese workers are not doing 996 and the environment is more relaxing in most fields than you think. I think Japanese and Americans work a bit harder than us.

Every industry and field and every pay level is different. 996 might seem harsh for some members but it also is quite common in lots of places in the world. They want to be competitive to other countries and the workers want to outcompete other workers for the job and performance. It becomes natural this environment unfortunately forces harder work longer hours more demanding on results. This gives a country progress but often is not appropriate.

Don't worry though like I said, most Chinese are not 996. It became a popular slogan and mostly because people were angry that some company leaders expect that without much, much higher pay returns. Anyway this is focused mostly in software engineering, electrical engineering, and finance fields.

 

[Beast]

Imagine having the power to ban gaming beyond 3 hours a week but can only discourage 996, maybe the government doesn’t care about the people?

Discourage? CCP already stated 996 is illegal. Whoever flout the law will face the music.

 

[Song Hong]

Common to work until 9pm in Australia. Law companies or business consulting. Some think 9pm is funny at some levels of the pay is amazing. Of course also free dinner voucher for $20 to $50 and taxis too.

In China, the engineering field is hyper competitive. It is not just about 996 but 996 and also results!

This is for top tier companies though. Most will have conditions and expectations of career progress and results in many domains of measuring results. If not by certain level at a certain age and conducted and completed certain types of jobs, you are gone. But this is for top companies again and middle level engineer to middle management.

For lower level companies it is much more relaxing.

I remember working on some projects involving residential and one commercial project. Morning starts around 8am or 9am depending on the engineer's job and title. Tea, snacks, breaks, smoking, chatting, very comfortable (second tier city roughly population around 5 to 10 million). Lunch break for whole hour and afternoon nap break. Work until 5pm to 6pm depending how much work on typical day. After 6pm occasionally.

Our lunch and dinners all paid for. Some are catering services who deliver boxed meals of very nice quality (I liked it but many complain wasn't good enough but honestly about $20 lunch in Australia level of quality). Some worksites on construction site will have cafeteria food with chefs there and whenever you are hungry, grab a bite. No limit to how much you can eat but of course no one wants to look like a pig. Also cafeteria quality will be one level lower although I am a bit of a pig and think it's great. Free food!

Technology companies particularly in digital technologies is a bit fancier mostly especially top tier or large companies. Those jobs are dream jobs. You need to believe everyone wants to do 996 to maintain their spot otherwise literally 1 million other Chinese engineers wish for their position and are smart enough and qualified enough for it.

You can choose to start your own business or go with lesser company. Pay is also lower then and no prestige. If you say you work for top companies, finding partners becomes a lot easier when it comes to their parents and family approval hahaha. Lots more perks too. First class travel. First class hotels. Expense accounts and personal driver and nice cars.

Some outside will think 996 is cruel. This isn't forced on anyone and is a result of too many skilled people competing for same jobs rather than new businesses starting to make use of those people. I would say most of Chinese workers are not doing 996 and the environment is more relaxing in most fields than you think. I think Japanese and Americans work a bit harder than us.

Every industry and field and every pay level is different. 996 might seem harsh for some members but it also is quite common in lots of places in the world. They want to be competitive to other countries and the workers want to outcompete other workers for the job and performance. It becomes natural this environment unfortunately forces harder work longer hours more demanding on results. This gives a country progress but often is not appropriate.

Don't worry though like I said, most Chinese are not 996. It became a popular slogan and mostly because people were angry that some company leaders expect that without much, much higher pay returns. Anyway this is focused mostly in software engineering, electrical engineering, and finance fields.

Not common to work until 2100 in Australia. All shop close by 1600.

 

[MH.Yang]

Discourage? CCP already stated 996 is illegal. Whoever flout the law will face the music.

This problem is not so easy to solve. Yes, the CCP can enforce it by executive order.
But Can CCP be sure of its judgment? Will cause more opposition? Or more support? Who's sure?

 

[Beast]

This problem is not so easy to solve. Yes, the CCP can enforce it by executive order.
But Can CCP be sure of its judgment? Will cause more opposition? Or more support? Who's sure?

At least, the worker has the right to sue the company who try such 996 enforcement.

 

[serenity]

Not common to work until 2100 in Australia. All shop close by 1600.

There is more than simply working in shops.

 

[313ghazi]

Anyone who thinks 996 or any equivalent long shift anywhere else in the world is productive is grossly mistaken.

Tech and creative work especially is not a factory line - you need to have a fresh rested mind is important.

I sometimes work 12 hours, but many of those hours are long self regulated breaks.

 

[REhorror]

Anyone who thinks 996 or any equivalent long shift anywhere else in the world is productive is grossly mistaken.

Tech and creative work especially is not a factory line - you need to have a fresh rested mind is important.

I sometimes work 12 hours, but many of those hours are long self regulated breaks.

I notice that my productivity increases when I take noon nap, I can't imagine working without that.
Sleep deprivation is one hell of a drug, soon you are gonna see double.

 

[nang2]

The reason why we choose to be a Communist is that we want to create an equal and fair world. A world without oppression, exploitation, poverty and war.
Since we were born in this world, we must realize our value in our short life. Being a Communist is the path we choose.
We will all die in the end, but our death will be as bright as a meteor. Because a Communist is born of great, he must die of great.

No problem there and completely understandable. The issue is that human beings are NOT born equal and that is a hard fact. If people are happy with living in primitive condition, that should be not an issue. In fact, early human society WAS largely egalitarian. As soon as people want better life, it becomes essential to let those who are born with more talents exert more. They won't do that unless they have sufficient incentives, which will inevitably lead to unequal results.

This is a pathetic condition our human beings live in though it is a reality. The problem with communists is that they don't recognize this reality and try to overcome it by force. People have long warned that socialism is not compatible with human nature. For that warning, Karl Kautsky responded: "But if socialism is a social necessity, then it would be human nature and not socialism which would have to readjust itself, if ever the two clashed." That is how arrogant communists are.

If communism and socialism were really the same, Lenin and Trotsky would not break up.

Well, I won't argue with you about this issue, because theoretical argument often consumes too much time.
I just need to say this: China will do something at this stage, continue to adhere to the public ownership economy as the main body, improve people's welfare, narrow the gap between the rich and the poor, reduce exploitation and develop higher productivity.
This is the socialist road that China will continue to follow.

Lenin and Trotsky didn't break up. It was Stalin and Trotsky who broke up.

Equality IS socialism.

The USSR remains one of the most equal societies to ever exist, far more than any of the Nordic countries.

Socialism is just one of many ways people devise to achieve equality. Don't mix means with ends.

 

[nang2]

You do not put word into Chinese mouth. CPC is advocating China style socialism 中国特色社会主义. All status quo today is just a transitional phase.

I only put truth back to CCP's mouth. Even back in 1980s when this so-called "China-style socialism" was all over the places, people knew it was simply making a right turn while flashing the left-turn signal. An outright lie was needed for CCP's own survival. But lying is always problematic. That was why at the same time Deng prohibited all discussions on the true nature of it.

 

[MH.Yang]

Lenin and Trotsky didn't break up. It was Stalin and Trotsky who broke up.

Yes, I made a mistake, not Lenin, but Stalin. I mean Trotsky insisted on continuous revolution, eliminating the state and class, and directly realizing communism. Stalin hoped to build a socialist first, and then move towards communism step by step through the Soviet Union. If there is no difference between communism and socialism, why should they break up.

No problem there and completely understandable. The issue is that human beings are NOT born equal and that is a hard fact. If people are happy with living in primitive condition, that should be not an issue. In fact, early human society WAS largely egalitarian. As soon as people want better life, it becomes essential to let those who are born with more talents exert more. They won't do that unless they have sufficient incentives, which will inevitably lead to unequal results.

This is a pathetic condition our human beings live in though it is a reality. The problem with communists is that they don't recognize this reality and try to overcome it by force. People have long warned that socialism is not compatible with human nature. For that warning, Karl Kautsky responded: "But if socialism is a social necessity, then it would be human nature and not socialism which would have to readjust itself, if ever the two clashed." That is how arrogant communists are.

And we look through history. Is the most extreme elitist society a capitalist society? No, slave society is the most extreme elitism. The second is the feudal society. So why did the more extreme elitist society perish earlier?
Because elites tend to stop the times rather than progress, because it is in their interests. The proletariat is the one who promotes the progress of the times.
For example, James Watt, the inventor of the improved steam engine, and James Hargreaves, the inventor of the Jenny spinning machine, are such proletarians who have changed the times.

I only put truth back to CCP's mouth. Even back in 1980s when this so-called "China-style socialism" was all over the places, people knew it was simply making a right turn while flashing the left-turn signal. An outright lie was needed for CCP's own survival. But lying is always problematic. That was why at the same time Deng prohibited all discussions on the true nature of it.

Your idea is very much like Lee Kuan Yew's elitism, and Thomas Carlyle, a British populist in the 18th century, was the earliest elitist, and Lee Kuan Yew's idea actually comes from Russian populists. Do you know how Russian Populism failed?
Elitism is based on difference theory, which recognizes the ability gap between people. Therefore, we must use Meritocracy to give full play to the ability of elitism.
Yes, you are right. The CCP is such a regime. But why does the CCP advocate socialism while using the elite theory? Because to realize Meritocracy, we must have the mobility of social strata and give the bottom elite a way to rise. Without socialist, Meritocracy will only lead to class solidification and the birth of an aristocratic country disguised as democracy.


With the in-depth development of socialism, the division of production is becoming more and more detailed, and the impact of differences between people will be smaller and smaller. Finally, communism will be completely realized.