The Extreme 996 Work Culture in China

[nang2]

Yes, I made a mistake, not Lenin, but Stalin. I mean Trotsky insisted on continuous revolution, eliminating the state and class, and directly realizing communism. Stalin hoped to build a socialist first, and then move towards communism step by step through the Soviet Union. If there is no difference between communism and socialism, why should they break up.

Trotsky was a fairly educated man and very good at organizing. He was more of a pure Marxist than Stalin and preferred international worker uprising than nation-local ones, like those Stalin and Mao preferred. The latter two were much more shrewd politician than Trotsky who was more ideological. He also promoted democracy, like Karl Kautsky did, though Karl and Lenin didn't get along well, either. It is amazing to see so many internal conflicts among communists/socialists themselves.

And we look through history. Is the most extreme elitist society a capitalist society? No, slave society is the most extreme elitism. The second is the feudal society. So why did the more extreme elitist society perish earlier?
Because elites tend to stop the times rather than progress, because it is in their interests. The proletariat is the one who promotes the progress of the times.
For example, James Watt, the inventor of the improved steam engine, and James Hargreaves, the inventor of the Jenny spinning machine, are such proletarians who have changed the times.

There is a naive concept among communists that proletarians are morally superior. In fact, they are depraved as everyone else. Eric Hoffer once remarked that Marx knew about proletarians the same as he knew about choir girls. He was a longshoreman and was a Jew. Such a naive concept distorts the way communists see the world and device policies and plans that often fail miserably.

Everyone has self-interest and that is his primary reason to go on living. It doesn't matter he is rich or poor, smart or dumb.

 

[MH.Yang]

Trotsky was a fairly educated man and very good at organizing. He was more of a pure Marxist than Stalin and preferred international worker uprising than nation-local ones, like those Stalin and Mao preferred. The latter two were much more shrewd politician than Trotsky who was more ideological. He also promoted democracy, like Karl Kautsky did, though Karl and Lenin didn't get along well, either. It is amazing to see so many internal conflicts among communists/socialists themselves.

There is no precedent for communism. So too many ideas lead to too many kinds of communism. A person who takes the initiative to choose Communism must be an idealist. For the sake of ideal, everyone is unwilling to compromise and can only split in the end. So the history of communism is a history of separation.

There is a naive concept among communists that proletarians are morally superior. In fact, they are depraved as everyone else. Eric Hoffer once remarked that Marx knew about proletarians the same as he knew about choir girls. He was a longshoreman and was a Jew. Such a naive concept distorts the way communists see the world and device policies and plans that often fail miserably.

Everyone has self-interest and that is his primary reason to go on living. It doesn't matter he is rich or poor, smart or dumb.

A communist views morality in this way: in class society, morality is an important tool to adjust class contradictions and carry out class struggle. It is an ideological tool, so it must be affected by the relations of production, which will lead to different classes having different morality. There is no point in speaking morally without class.

 

[nang2]

There is no precedent for communism. So too many ideas lead to too many kinds of communism. A person who takes the initiative to choose Communism must be an idealist. For the sake of ideal, everyone is unwilling to compromise and can only split in the end. So the history of communism is a history of separation.

That itself should entail caution and doubts. Yet all factions of communists are so confident despite all the warnings. Maybe that is just emotional calling. Hayek gave another name for such a confidence -- "fatal conceit". As many people in 19th century had warned, socialists want to play God and design the world while all other forms of societies (slavery, feudalism and capitalism) were not from man-made designs and were only a natural evolution when people just looked after themselves.

 

[313ghazi]

I notice that my productivity increases when I take noon nap, I can't imagine working without that.
Sleep deprivation is one hell of a drug, soon you are gonna see double.

This is the best part of working from home - lunch time naps.

 

[MH.Yang]

That itself should entail caution and doubts. Yet all factions of communists are so confident despite all the warnings. Maybe that is just emotional calling. Hayek gave another name for such a confidence -- "fatal conceit". As many people in 19th century had warned, socialists want to play God and design the world while all other forms of societies (slavery, feudalism and capitalism) were not from man-made designs and were only a natural evolution when people just looked after themselves.

The significance of the existence of human society is to realize the liberation and development of human civilization through the development of productive forces. The development of productive forces will inevitably bring about changes in production relations. Socialism is the inevitable outcome of the development of human productive forces to a certain stage.

 

[nang2]

The significance of the existence of human society is to realize the liberation and development of human civilization through the development of productive forces. The development of productive forces will inevitably bring about changes in production relations. Socialism is the inevitable outcome of the development of human productive forces to a certain stage.

Yet, socialism removes the very incentive for people to further develop this productive force while socialists scratch their heads wondering why capitalistic countries are more inventive.

To my mind, socialism is only good for rest when a society has been highly stressed out after fast paced development through competition. It is like regular sleep at night is crucial for healthy body. But expecting developing during the sleep is just absurd.

 

[Leishangthem]

But the thin-is-in-and-hot idea must come from somewhere. When Punjabi actress Shehnaaz Gill participated in Bigg Boss ( Indian version of Big Brother ) what two years ago she was healthy but now she has been brainwashed by the media and general social atmosphere including other women that she should become thin. Now she is and she is showing that new-found thin'ness in photo shoots.

And why are you getting irritated ? Are you a woman and that too thin ?

You really don't get it ,do you? if you were in some major relevant firm with or responsibilities,or someone actually in a relevant position in a decent company, you will get fired if you set about demanding about women to gain or lose weight.

You don't seem to get ,it's pathetic for men to talk about woman to gain weight so to apparently "look better" on behalf of him,she doesn't owe to look better for ya! You don't know her.Also don't compare Indian Punjabi actress in India to Chinese,they have very different sort of body frame with different fat composition and BMI and also there's different culture .

So those Chinese volunteered to work like ants ? To whose profit ?

Apparently nobody put a gun on their head to work .

Surely the budget of the Chinese government space agency is a lot bigger than that of private company SpaceX. And the Chinese space agency has been launching satellites since the 1990s. So what is stopping CNSA from coming up with a Mars-capable 100-crew spaceship like Starship and its launch-from-Earth carrier rocket Super Heavy ?

So what? SpaceX inherited engineers and much of know-how from NASA and pretty much all they did was invest in some rockets ,you are going around typing SpaceX will land human on mars by 2030,shows where your mind floats.BTW ,CNSA is an all-encompassing space agency like NASA but only has like half the budget and started half a century late in comparison to NASA.

 

[MH.Yang]

Yet, socialism removes the very incentive for people to further develop this productive force while socialists scratch their heads wondering why capitalistic countries are more inventive.

To my mind, socialism is only good for rest when a society has been highly stressed out after fast paced development through competition. It is like regular sleep at night is crucial for healthy body. But expecting developing during the sleep is just absurd.

Why do you think capitalist countries are more creative? in fact. Northern Europe, the Soviet Union, Cuba and China are not lack of creativity.

 

[Beidou2020]

Yet, socialism removes the very incentive for people to further develop this productive force while socialists scratch their heads wondering why capitalistic countries are more inventive.

To my mind, socialism is only good for rest when a society has been highly stressed out after fast paced development through competition. It is like regular sleep at night is crucial for healthy body. But expecting developing during the sleep is just absurd.

There are many capitalist countries that are less innovative than China.

 

[DJ_Viper]

This is everywhere. In the US, working with big four consulting companies, I've always heard the employees complain about 6 day work and 45-60 hours are not uncommon. In fact, in the deadline driven Tech sector, it's much more prominent. I personally know an example, with Dell computers, Michael Dell (the CEO) used to have a 7 AM Saturday morning meeting with his executives (while these same people had already worked Monday - Friday evening). So I'm not sure we can blame someone here. In any high growth business, this situation persists, as wrong as it may sound. I still work 16 hours a day despite not really needing to work, I guess old habits of old times.

 

[jamahir]

You don't seem to get ,it's pathetic for men to talk about woman to gain weight so to apparently "look better" on behalf of him,she doesn't owe to look better for ya!

But where is she getting this idea from that thin-is-hot ?

and also there's different culture .

Cultures can change. If China can have a huge political change ( the Communist revolution ) and some social change then the social change can extend to the aspect of Chinese young women becoming voluptuous.

Apparently nobody put a gun on their head to work .

Nevertheless to whose profit ?

you are going around typing SpaceX will land human on mars by 2030,shows where your mind floats.

I am just repeating what SpaceX said.

So what? SpaceX inherited engineers and much of know-how from NASA and pretty much all they did was invest in some rockets

Surely there must be some workplace differences for those engineers and leadership ambitions because of which NASA doesn't have a 100-crew spaceship and SpaceX does.

NASA has a new rover on Mars which is attempting to find interesting rock / regolith samples and collect them in the rover's tubes designated for that purpose. The samples will be collected and returned to Earth at a later time by a separate machine and this later time is not decided yet AFAIK. And this will be another costly and complicated method.

What SpaceX may do is since it has planned to land humans on Mars before 2030 the crew may include a geologist and biologist who will take along equipment to gather environmental samples and do science analysis on them then and there. A simpler arrangement than NASA's. And also bring back more samples to Earth because the Starship has larger payload capacity.

BTW ,CNSA is an all-encompassing space agency like NASA but only has like half the budget and started half a century late in comparison to NASA.

This long article on Astronautix website speaks about the Chinese space program. It seems China started human spaceflight program in the late 1960s but it got disrupted because of local political events and seems later because of more focus on military buildup. Though yes simplifications and miniaturizations in various fields in the world including electronics came successively I feel China did not innovate and be different enough. Hence SpaceX having the 100-crew Starship and CNSA not, despite your point about SpaceX engineers being ex-NASA. Again, even NASA doesn't have a Starship-type spacecraft.

 

[nang2]

Why do you think capitalist countries are more creative? in fact. Northern Europe, the Soviet Union, Cuba and China are not lack of creativity.

It has nothing to do with creativity. Every country is blessed with roughly the equal talent. China, with her biggest population, has never been short of creativity. The difference is whether this creativity is allowed to be developed, matured and eventually manifested into something that benefits the society. To make that happen, people with talents need to have sufficient incentive to make it happen.

Comparing with a free people, slaves are also very talented, smart and creative, but nobody expects them to volunteeringly exercise their talents. All they want to do is to exert just that much to avoid whipping.

There are many capitalist countries that are less innovative than China.

As I mentioned earlier, China is NOT a socialistic country. It has a vibrant market economy, which in many ways is even freer than many capitalist countries. The question is whether you want to change that and go back to planned economy.

 

[Beast]

Hardworking is not 996 culture.

 

[lcloo]

I remember back in 2001, while working in a 2nd tier industrial town in Shenzhen city, we used to have only one day off in a month, and worked from 8am to 11pm. However, the work efficiency was extremely low both in the office and factory floor.

Most of the time our office staff spent many hours playing computer games and doing QQ chat (QQ chat and games were very popular in 2001 to around 2010), especially at night time.

Then a few years later a new boss took over the company and imposed a 8 hours and 5 days work per week (40 hours week), office staff's efficiency improved because people need to complete their tasks within a given time since no over-times are allowed. However, the factory workers complained a lot since their over-time works were reduced, many resign to join other factories.

Today automations and robotics have taken over the facoty floors. So the complaint of lack of over-time for workers is becoming less of an issue. I think 40 hours per week is quite good, but my experience in a particular (and uncommon) company in Malaysia of 39 1/2 hour week was the most satisfying as an employee. We got 1/4 hour off at 10AM for morning tea time, and another 1/4 hour off at 3PM for afternoon tea time.

Also some studies have shown shorter 38 hours week can produce employees efficiencies equal or better than 48 hours week.

 

[Brainsucker]

Yet, socialism removes the very incentive for people to further develop this productive force while socialists scratch their heads wondering why capitalistic countries are more inventive.

To my mind, socialism is only good for rest when a society has been highly stressed out after fast paced development through competition. It is like regular sleep at night is crucial for healthy body. But expecting developing during the sleep is just absurd.

Socialism was born from populist leader who want to get more vote for his / her next election. it is the same as buying people's vote. Or bribe them to vote you