The clowns of Shariah4Pakistan have postponed their conference

[indian_jigar]

Pakistan should grant visas to these guys other wise it can harm Pakistani government they can issue fatwa from anywhere so allowing them will be better

And what exactly are fatwas going to do to a Govt?

 

[Setting]

You mean all the 50+ muslim states of the world are haram ?

I did not say anything. I am saying What Muslims are telling.

This is no way to solve the problem of nationalism, if you want then you can form a muslim union.

According to Muslims, Quran is one and is unchanged since it was revealed. So is Islam and any of its Fundamentals. You also said the same thing above. How can the Caliphate be rejected in any way? Just because of a modern concept of 'Nationalism'?

Isn't that What Munafiq actually means!

The so called Extremist Muslims (Zarvan as you like refer him) and Shariah4Pakistan Kind of Groups only want Muslims not to fall/deviate from the basic fundamentals of Islam.

 

[Sugarcane]

Are the so called Extremist Muslims saying different?

Yes - read my previous post they want us to follow things which they associate with Islam but they don't hold against Quran but political motivated things introduced by different rulers or cultures. When a Muslim highlight that these are against basic principles and guidelines of Quran they label them Munafiq/Kharajii. Infect they themselves are munafiq because they don't believe Quran is complete guidance.

 

[Setting]

1. In one have to support the truth & justice, in some cases this can go against your country's policy but it's the right thing to do.

So you are advocating doing Taqiyya to achieve your interests or objectives?

Taqiyya - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

2. No there is no where in Quran it's written that Caliphate is true Islam, Infect first Caliph was selected by people (In modern dictionary Democratically)

When did I say that it is written in Quran? That is the view among Muslims.

What difference is there in Muslim World, Caliphate, Islamic Empire?

Muslims also tell that all Muslims are a part of the same body. If one is hand, the other is leg, All Muslims are brothers and are inseparable just like the parts of a body.

Isn't the Muslim World or the Foundations of Islamic Brotherhood based on the above beliefs?

Then how can you discard the brotherhood for just a Modern Concept which was not existing in 1,200 Years of Islam?

 

[Sugarcane]

In fact first four caliphs were recommended by prophet muhammed,in their order..Just after that,muslims including sahaba started fighting over who should be the caliph..

Where? Which one you think was first Caliph?

 

[Setting]

Yes - read my previous post they want us to follow things which they associate with Islam

Can you give us some examples? Also let us know How it is different from Islam?

but they don't hold against Quran but political motivated things introduced by different rulers or cultures.

Again some examples to support your claim?

When a Muslim highlight that these are against basic principles and guidelines of Quran they label them Munafiq/Kharajii. Infect they themselves are munafiq because they don't believe Quran is complete guidance.

They also mean the same. Just like the example of Nationalism above, the so called Good Muslims are Munafiqs who are withering away from True Islam.

Why they should be called Extremist then and Why can't we call the Good Muslims as Extremist?

Isn't that Hypocrisy?

 

[Sugarcane]

So you are advocating doing Taqiyya to achieve your interests or objectives?

I don't know the Taqiyaa is because i don't complicate my belief - It's simple for me i.e. if i see Pakistan is doing wrong and injustice than i should raise my voice against it and support the party who is in truth (This action is described as better than worship of thousands years) and if i don't have courage to raise my voice than it's better of me to keep silent instead of endorsing the action of Pakistan.

When did I say that it is written in Quran? That is the view among Muslims.

What difference is there in Muslim World, Caliphate, Islamic Empire?

Muslims also tell that all Muslims are a part of the same body. If one is hand, the other is leg, All Muslims are brothers and are inseparable just like the parts of a body.

Isn't the Muslim World or the Foundations of Islamic Brotherhood based on the above beliefs?

Then how can you discard the brotherhood for just a Modern Concept which was not existing in 1,200 Years of Islam?

Well - I am not here to justify politically motivated mullahs (as i am already against them) - For the highlighted, i believe in that part but after Prophet's death muslim ignored this guidance, Brotherhood rants today are nothing but to achieve political objectives and influence.

 

[Setting]

Your talking about the literalist Islam like Wahabism?

Wahabism means True Islam (according to its own definition)

It aims to eradicate Kuffar Practices which according to them have come inside Islam over time and now they have become acceptable part of Islam. They only want to eradicate such practices and Shariah4Pakistan is only doing that.

e.g.:- Nationalism.

Maybe the Good Muslims are themselves Munafiqs who fear being Punished on the Judgement Day and also on the Earth by True Muslims (Extremist Muslims) for refusing to back to True Islam and getting Deviated from True Islam?

You know that "Gand Fathti hai".

Even they can't agree 100% with each other. No two human beings, despite their religion, will ever agree in Exigo with another.

The other debators just said that Islam is the only true Religion and Quran is undisputable, unchallenged. No one objected to it and all Muslims gleefully agreed.

 

[Mujahid]

I did not say anything. I am saying What Muslims are telling.


According to Muslims, Quran is one and is unchanged since it was revealed. So is Islam and any of its Fundamentals. You also said the same thing above. How can the Caliphate be rejected in any way? Just because of a modern concept of 'Nationalism'?

Isn't that What Munafiq actually means!

The so called Extremist Muslims (Zarvan as you like refer him) and Shariah4Pakistan Kind of Groups only want Muslims not to fall/deviate from the basic fundamentals of Islam.

As you are following the discussion, Shariah4Pakistan are the same type of people who fight for getting power/govt. by exploiting Islam. As simple as that.

Munafiq means, a person who externally accepts Islam but inside is against Islam.

Its vague that Shariah4Pakistan Kind of Groups only want Muslims not to fall/deviate from the basic fundamentals of Islam.
Its difficult to say that they want muslim states to unite, they want to get authority in the name of Islam just like Taliban.

As far as nationalism is concerned, the 50+ muslim states or nations are a reality. No one can use the term of nationalism to degrade this fact.

The challenge is to unite the muslim states.

 

[Setting]

I don't know the Taqiyaa is because i don't complicate my belief - It's simple for me i.e. if i see Pakistan is doing wrong and injustice than i should raise my voice against it and support the party who is in truth (This action is described as better than worship of thousands years) and if i don't have courage to raise my voice than it's better of me to keep silent instead of endorsing the action of Pakistan.

Basically, You are just doing What I am saying. You are Rejecting/Discarding a part of Islam

i believe in that part but after Prophet's death muslim ignored this guidance

Also you are doing Taqiyya to achieve Political Objectives (Here rejecting a part of Islam). You accuse the Extremist Muslims/Mullahs of doing the same. At the end of day, You are a Munafiq. (According to Technical Definition) and you yourself accepted that.

 

[Redbull]

Wahabism means True Islam (according to its own definition)

It aims to eradicate Kuffar Practices which according to them have come inside Islam over time and now they have become acceptable part of Islam. They only want to eradicate such practices and Shariah4Pakistan is only doing that.

e.g.:- Nationalism.

Maybe the Good Muslims are themselves Munafiqs who fear being Punished on the Judgement Day and also on the Earth by True Muslims (Extremist Muslims) for refusing to back to True Islam and getting Deviated from True Islam?

You know that "Gand Fathti hai".

What does "Gand fathi hai" mean?

Wahabism claims to remove inovated practises from Islam, however, that's not necesarrily what they do; instead they remove cultural practises such as those of Muslims in the subcontinent and impose Arab cultural practices. We saw this in Zia's time when Pakistan became less Hindu Muslim and more Arab.

Wahabism is a cultural movement with the garb of "Cleansing uninslamic religous rituals".

The other debators just said that Islam is the only true Religion and Quran is undisputable, unchallenged. No one objected to it and all Muslims gleefully agreed.

The quranic text is very much challanged and disputed every day. The meaning of words and their contextes and how they can be adopted into our lives. These are all contentions one faces in the understanding of foreign 7th century texts.

This is for you my friend.

Have a Cup of Tea/Coffee and read it.

http://www.cspipublishing.com/statistical/pdf/Statistical_Islam.pdf

Jist: the Koran devotes 64% of its text to the subject of the unbeliever.

Can you summarize what the document contains?

 

[Setting]

As you are following the discussion, Shariah4Pakistan are the same type of people who fight for getting power/govt. by exploiting Islam. As simple as that.

If I believe your statement that Shariah4Pakistan has Political Objectives to do it, then Is it different from What Muslims have done in the past? Achieving Political Objectives by doing Taqiyya, being a Munafiq, Attacking others (As Shariah4Pakistan, Taliban do to Good Muslims according to you).

 

[rashid.sarwar]

Shariah4Pakistan

a very hip hop term,

yo man Shariah4Pakistan, implemented by Molana of Lal masjid who used girl students as sheild during lal masjid operation and was caught running in burqa (veil ),

and this man will be going to implement sharia. wow...

No problem with that, we already have sharia of jamat islami, sharia of molana diesel and now sharia of shariah4Pakistan

One more pathetic sharia for the confused nation

 

[Redbull]

Sometimes you are really very funny Sir in Arabic their are different styles of writting the wording is the same wording is not different this survey was done by a German University they collected more than 30000 copies of Quran old and new and their was no difference and Secularism is not a choice it is kufr and Muslims stand against kufr not follow it but Muslims not kafirs

Where exactly did you get this "30,000" figure? Othman compiled the first 4 manuscripts in 651, however, no manuscript of the 7th century survives today. So to say "the Quran has been unchanged for 1400 years" is not a provable proposition.

 

[Sugarcane]

Can you give us some examples? Also let us know How it is different from Islam?

Let's take very basic example - Other than murder there punishment for no other crime is written (in this world), Even in case of murder there is clearly written under which condition death penalty is applied - even than victim's relative can forgive that but these mullahs handover death penalty for almost everything. [/QUOTE]

They also mean the same. Just like the example of Nationalism above, the so called Good Muslims are Munafiqs who are withering away from True Islam.

Why they should be called Extremist then and Why can't we call the Good Muslims as Extremist?

Isn't that Hypocrisy?

What's the concept of term brotherhood you have in your mind, it's important to clarify that first.