The Case for Mini Aircraft Carriers for Indian Navy

[Whazzup]

Flat tops are good. Are they not? Japan has many.

They are for Japan as they cannot have Aircraft carriers as per Article 9 and use them to operate ASW helis to counter subs of PLAN , But in a war time an AC would be more important for country like India hence we went for them .
But in peace times they can be really useful like helping other countries in times of natural calamities as their primary load is choopers which are used in SAR operations and have plenty of room inside for the rescued people .

On topic we don't need to operate Tejas from them we have more than enough platforms for that and more gonna join in the future . We need them for their heli capability as of now .

 

[Perpendicular]

LPD's or LHD's can't replace the effectivness, power projection firepower of a CBG. Plus it will be waste of resources that will be required to operate a fixed wing aircraft from these things (LHD, LPD) regardless even if IN gets F35B's. On top of that every ship of this class would certainly carry a small battle group along.
All comes down to money, as it will be huge undertaking.
For the current size and budget of IN this seems to be a good idea but if India is really looking to go beyond IOR than these flat tops are not the answer.
Nuclear powered IAC Vishal would set the direction of IN.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

While smaller ships sound good on paper in practice they have some drawbacks.

Pretty much every ship needs standard items like radars, engines, defensive/offensive weapons, etc. These take up a surprising amount of space and cost about the same if it is on a small ship or a large one. So money savings isn't usually the case with some of the most expensive items.

While a large ship is certainly a bigger target there is less of a chance of it sinking immediately if hit.
For instance some aircraft carriers have had fires where some of the bombs on planes exploded. It certainly wreaked havoc with massive holes, fires , and flooding..but the ships didn't sink.

While people point and say the US Navy doesn't have as many ships as it has had in the past if you look closely you will see the ships are actually much larger these days.

 

[#hydra#]

waste of money if we goes for such a vessel. The logical option will be another Vikrant type armed with a mix of N-LCA & mig29k as a stop gap arrangement, the existing expertise CSL can make another Vikrant type in a less time frame.

 

[raktaka]

It would be VERY nice if we can allocate another 1.5 billion $ to continue production of 1 more Vikrant Class

40-45 K ton will do very nicely.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

This Destroyer took a terrorist blast that blew a 12 meter wide hole at the waterline.

The thing that saved it was the ship's size.

 

[Ind4Ever]

I doubt our LPDs/LHDs would be with displacement of 40000 tons. There have been some misinformation about it in media.

Actually official RFI by Indian Navy had requirement for 40000 LHD /LPD . And the second reissued RFI don't have any mention of weight.

On topic : Operating Tejas and helicopters on LHD will he very tricky and more space have to be wasted for ski jump and arrester hook. .

But the theme of the article is very important. Having 6-7 fighter jets to guard against Naval or air threat is more viable and good thought strategy. With range, payload, speed!!! Fighter jets would cripple enemies offensive or defensive tactics against our landing parties. Having said that space for aircrafts are very little when compared aircraft carrier.

Solution? No other solution to have this massive air campaign capabilities other than vertical take off and vertical landing fighters. Which can provide video range of advantages. India should focus of these kind of aircraft so it can be used from large ships, our islands belt, damaged runways or no runways areas. If LCA N is developed in such a way it's good. But if AMCA is modified to take off vertical and landing will be the real game changer. India should go for F35. Am saying this again. F35 may not be a good choice for IAF. But at sea these are beast which can blind shipboard radars and lock and destroy targets from far away.

30 f35 for three to four LHD will be like Columbus and natives...

It would be VERY nice if we can allocate another 1.5 billion $ to continue production of 1 more Vikrant Class

40-45 K ton will do very nicely.

Absolutely yes... We should

 

[$@rJen]

Actually official RFI by Indian Navy had requirement for 40000 LHD /LPD . And the second reissued RFI don't have any mention of weight.

On topic : Operating Tejas and helicopters on LHD will he very tricky and more space have to be wasted for ski jump and arrester hook. .

But the theme of the article is very important. Having 6-7 fighter jets to guard against Naval or air threat is more viable and good thought strategy. With range, payload, speed!!! Fighter jets would cripple enemies offensive or defensive tactics against our landing parties. Having said that space for aircrafts are very little when compared aircraft carrier.

Solution? No other solution to have this massive air campaign capabilities other than vertical take off and vertical landing fighters. Which can provide video range of advantages. India should focus of these kind of aircraft so it can be used from large ships, our islands belt, damaged runways or no runways areas. If LCA N is developed in such a way it's good. But if AMCA is modified to take off vertical and landing will be the real game changer. India should go for F35. Am saying this again. F35 may not be a good choice for IAF. But at sea these are beast which can blind shipboard radars and lock and destroy targets from far away.

30 f35 for three to four LHD will be like Columbus and natives...


Absolutely yes... We should

I'm telling the same thing since the begining of this year... Once we start to build the IAC-2 most probably the talks for the air wing will take place which is defiantly going to be F-35C if we're going for EMALs.. then its better to buy a few more of them and put the on the LHD.. 1 AC with 1-2 LHD on each side of the naval command is going to give a nightmare to the opponent

 

[kaykay]

Actually official RFI by Indian Navy had requirement for 40000 LHD /LPD . And the second reissued RFI don't have any mention of weight.

On topic : Operating Tejas and helicopters on LHD will he very tricky and more space have to be wasted for ski jump and arrester hook. .

But the theme of the article is very important. Having 6-7 fighter jets to guard against Naval or air threat is more viable and good thought strategy. With range, payload, speed!!! Fighter jets would cripple enemies offensive or defensive tactics against our landing parties. Having said that space for aircrafts are very little when compared aircraft carrier.

Solution? No other solution to have this massive air campaign capabilities other than vertical take off and vertical landing fighters. Which can provide video range of advantages. India should focus of these kind of aircraft so it can be used from large ships, our islands belt, damaged runways or no runways areas. If LCA N is developed in such a way it's good. But if AMCA is modified to take off vertical and landing will be the real game changer. India should go for F35. Am saying this again. F35 may not be a good choice for IAF. But at sea these are beast which can blind shipboard radars and lock and destroy targets from far away.

30 f35 for three to four LHD will be like Columbus and natives...


Absolutely yes... We should

Are you sure 40000 ton displacement part? because afaik Indian navy issued RFI for 5 future fleet tankers where they put weight as 40000 tons back in 2012-13. Also I remember an article right after that where they mixed up fleet tanker to MRSV and since then this 40000 ton part keep popping up every now and then.

Actually official RFI by Indian Navy had requirement for 40000 LHD /LPD . And the second reissued RFI don't have any mention of weight.

On topic : Operating Tejas and helicopters on LHD will he very tricky and more space have to be wasted for ski jump and arrester hook. .

But the theme of the article is very important. Having 6-7 fighter jets to guard against Naval or air threat is more viable and good thought strategy. With range, payload, speed!!! Fighter jets would cripple enemies offensive or defensive tactics against our landing parties. Having said that space for aircrafts are very little when compared aircraft carrier.

Solution? No other solution to have this massive air campaign capabilities other than vertical take off and vertical landing fighters. Which can provide video range of advantages. India should focus of these kind of aircraft so it can be used from large ships, our islands belt, damaged runways or no runways areas. If LCA N is developed in such a way it's good. But if AMCA is modified to take off vertical and landing will be the real game changer. India should go for F35. Am saying this again. F35 may not be a good choice for IAF. But at sea these are beast which can blind shipboard radars and lock and destroy targets from far away.

30 f35 for three to four LHD will be like Columbus and natives...


Absolutely yes... We should

Are you sure 40000 ton displacement part? because afaik Indian navy issued RFI for 5 future fleet tankers where they put weight as 40000 tons back in 2012-13. Also I remember an article right after that where they mixed up fleet tanker to MRSV and since then this 40000 ton part keep popping up every now and then.

 

[Echo_419]

While smaller ships sound good on paper in practice they have some drawbacks.

Pretty much every ship needs standard items like radars, engines, defensive/offensive weapons, etc. These take up a surprising amount of space and cost about the same if it is on a small ship or a large one. So money savings isn't usually the case with some of the most expensive items.

While a large ship is certainly a bigger target there is less of a chance of it sinking immediately if hit.
For instance some aircraft carriers have had fires where some of the bombs on planes exploded. It certainly wreaked havoc with massive holes, fires , and flooding..but the ships didn't sink.

While people point and say the US Navy doesn't have as many ships as it has had in the past if you look closely you will see the ships are actually much larger these days.

F35 is the one of the best aircraft & is perfectly suited to our requirements.The only problem is US policy

 

[black-hawk_101]

Link/?? this is never gonna happen atleast not for another decade... it'll cost more than of Pakistan's defence budget

I saying used ones from NATO countries.

 

[GURU DUTT]

F35 is the one of the best aircraft & is perfectly suited to our requirements.The only problem is US policy

just a noob question since these so called mini aircraft carriers are designed as helicopter carriers can they some how instal AAGs to them cause without them no fixed winged fighter could land on them ?

 

[$@rJen]

I saying used ones from NATO countries.

oh k. but sir that still costs billions.. you've to pay bilion for LHD then Billions for frigates,subs and other ships.. then have to buy new rotatory wing for the LHD along with missiles and torpedoes. then again Defensive and offensive missile for LHD and surface ships.. main Maintanance costs... It'll still cost more than five times the budget of PN

 

[Echo_419]

just a noob question since these so called mini aircraft carriers are designed as helicopter carriers can they some how instal AAGs to them cause without them no fixed winged fighter could land on them ?

I guess you could,Americans are doing this right now (landing planes on LHDs)

 

[Ind4Ever]

Are you sure 40000 ton displacement part? because afaik Indian navy issued RFI for 5 future fleet tankers where they put weight as 40000 tons back in 2012-13. Also I remember an article right after that where they mixed up fleet tanker to MRSV and since then this 40000 ton part keep popping up every now and then.


Are you sure 40000 ton displacement part? because afaik Indian navy issued RFI for 5 future fleet tankers where they put weight as 40000 tons back in 2012-13. Also I remember an article right after that where they mixed up fleet tanker to MRSV and since then this 40000 ton part keep popping up every now and then.

I posted the original RFI long back ago on this same query. I will do it again. Give me some time. Am sure about displacement part... But second RFI dint have any 40 K, T

I'm telling the same thing since the begining of this year... Once we start to build the IAC-2 most probably the talks for the air wing will take place which is defiantly going to be F-35C if we're going for EMALs.. then its better to buy a few more of them and put the on the LHD.. 1 AC with 1-2 LHD on each side of the naval command is going to give a nightmare to the opponent

Yes of course. Now we will have to decide between Rafale M a bomb truck with 4+ generation capability (including nuclear delivery) , F35 pure 5th generation fighter made for ground attacks and Naval warfare. But buying f35 will give us additional options for LPD, Back up fighter incase of runway destroyed, island operation and coastal defence role.

Question is will vertical takeoff is enough to select F35 with more problems looming over F35 project. ?