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The betrayal of my beautiful religion, Islam

Remember samjhauta blasts , malegaon blasts abd mecca masjid bombings . These were tagged as saffron terrorism and rightfully so and thank god it was nipped in bud . What i think about hinduism will not change the fact that all these acts were done by people with hinduism as a motive . And motive will will not separate from crime no matter how much we bleach it . It was safrron terrorism .
You even have a colour to give them while for us you throw in the name of our religion :(

Why not Mullah terrorism?


Now if we combine these two examples , think critically and now look at the way why Islamic terrorism is so much in media or why it is termed so it would not be hard to understand
Unfortunately for me...It is tough to understand...coz I know the words as verbs and nouns not just words for you to throw around and add -ist to :D

And not until they say Medicine is a terrorist field coz doctors sale organs and blood and other misdealings....I will not want to understand why my religion is being maligned

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samjhauta blasts , malegaon blasts abd mecca masjid bombings
The courts are still not sure about it. The matter is subjudice. But for Hindu extremist activity you can point out the sati burnings. That is established and unambiguous. Back to today - for example, the LTTE often persecuted non Hindus and so on.

But we know they are evil, and we took/taking steps to remedy it.

Regarding Samjhauta et al - We can discuss it somewhere else, trust me - the matter is very screwed up. A Hindu Org was also somewhat involved(NOT RSS :P).
 
What the lady said in her article is her opinion, to which she is entitled. You may not agree, but she still has the right to say her opinion, just like you are doing too, on PDF.
Yes and hence it is here on PDF :p:

I will give you a hint. What happened when the Church was the source of evil, or when the higher castes did as they pleased in India?
Active resistance. Armed or otherwise. Legislation. Massive popular protests and mass movements. And so on.

You are under no obligation to prove the non Muslims that you are good or anything. You need to do it for yourselves. For your own benefit and yours own alone.

Well lets put it less than an obligation its my humble right to want to remove all misconceptions off my religion!
 
Imagine this - the Arab countries (and the whole lot of them) unites, maybe even coming to an understanding of sorts with Israel/etc and finish the IS on priority.

Imagine the effect such an action, nay even a proclamation can make. Even a volunteer non sectarian (preferably Sunni) armed force can do wonders.


Yes and hence it is here on PDF :p:



Well lets put it less than an obligation its my humble right to want to remove all misconceptions off my religion!
I personally believe this - for example xyz attacks Hinduism/Buddhism/Sikhism etc ie any Indian/Dharmic religion.

I can take offence and turn into a shell. Or I can just ignore it - a snide remark is too puny to have any effect on the idea of faith. :) The recognition of the fact that Hinduism khatre main nahi hain - can help. And after that we have the Courts to silence Togadia from time to time. :P

You will have to find your own way to deal with this, I am afraid. :unsure:
 
Imagine this - the Arab countries (and the whole lot of them) unites, maybe even coming to an understanding of sorts with Israel/etc and finish the IS on priority.

Imagine the effect such an action, nay even a proclamation can make. Even a volunteer non sectarian (preferably Sunni) armed force can do wonders.

This can become reality if Israel accepts Arab Peace Initiative. Instead, Israel is willing to bring the whole region into chaos to advance their interests. We can't tolerate the occupation anymore or the assaults or the abusing of the Palestinian people. If Arab States managed to make those two a priority and Israel actually listened instead of taking isolated extremist path. That would mean all the tens of millions of Islamists would stop having suspicions against Arab governments.

But, in the meantime, Arab governments aren't making a push(They can't really) and the West continues to unconditionally support Israel.
 
It has answered ur question...During a war...in cause for ALLAH....in places in the Quran the war has been described as one strive for truth or one against oppressors or one against those who throw you out of your homes (oppressors)

That is alot to answer...can you summarize...Coz I am not an A'alim but I can only answer how much I can read...and being a normal human I dont have the capacity to go on forever...
The cause of Allah you say, who decides that?


Why quote part of the verse...Do you read part of your course books and answer partly during exam yet expecting your teachers to fully understand you?

IClearly, its not me who quotes, there is the FB page I gave you, were you not asking for links?




You can summarize why they quoted it incorrectly, you are more learned than me and have a better background.
The meaning of the word Fitnah is not given right...it doesnt just mean disbelief it actually is more like mischief + slandering and so on ...

Surah Al-Anfal 8:38-44 -
Towards Understanding the Quran - Quran Translation Commentary - Tafheem ul Quran
It includes disbelief, so how is it wrong?



Yes it is ...it is also 1 of the last resorts when punishing...one could write a whole book on it...



All this is said by ALLAH not by human beings so it will be up to GOD alone to do that

Surah Al-Anfal 8:59-64 -
Towards Understanding the Quran - Quran Translation Commentary - Tafheem ul Quran

There it is said we and also I, do they mean the same?
 
This can become reality if Israel accepts Arab Peace Initiative. Instead, Israel is willing to bring the whole region into chaos to advance their interests. We can't tolerate the occupation anymore or the assaults or the abusing of the Palestinian people. If Arab States managed to make those two a priority and Israel actually listened instead of taking isolated extremist path. That would mean all the tens of millions of Islamists would stop having suspicions against Arab governments.

But, in the meantime, Arab governments aren't making a push(They can't really) and the West continues to unconditionally support Israel.
Ok, even if I agree to your narrative, let's ignore Israel from the equation. What if SA and Iran gets into an agreement of sort(like Iran and Israel did while bombing Osirak!) even temporarily to deal with ISIS? That would send a clear message.

Something like Operation Valkurie is used to show that the entire German leadership was not solidly behind Hitler.
 
Crusades are very popular still. In the games the theme is quite prominent. The Dark Ages is a prominent subject in European history and that is drilled into their kid's heads in school itself.
You would be surprised how twisted the stories are...all hidden and sugar coated :agree: no one will tell you the bad side until and unless you read it up in literature...

Likewise no one is telling you the good side of Islam until and unless you read it up!


And trust me - we are NOT proud of our shortcomings. But we acknowledge that. That was my point actually.
I am acknowledging the short comings of people who appear in media and are incapable of adding 2 good words or realities of Islam and instead agree with what they are being questioned making people believe it is all a part of Islam! Yup thats the purpose of the thread!


There are Islamic Reform Movements as well(I bet Hazzy will be mad at this), but ... well, you know the issues more than I do. I was trying focus on the social aspects more. Religious debates with surahs and ayats - I won't get into(though I have read The Qur'an)
I know many have read the Quran...reading it is 1 thing researching on it and joining it with the time the verses were revealed to understanding the context is another....the latter is rarely to never done!

As for Islamic reforms....well I am against half of them coz there are not reforming Islam but maligning it by being apologetic! And almost everyone hates Christian Apologetics for the very reason coz they twist facts just to make the other smile ...In the Quran such people are loosely called as those who sell their faith
 
Unless You Called Lord’s Resistance Army “Christianist” Stop Calling Boko Haram “Islamist” (Unless You Called Lord's Resistance Army "Christianist" Stop Calling Boko Haram "Islamist" | loonwatch.com


By Garibaldi


The kidnappings by the shadowy group known as Boko Haram of 300 school girls in Nigeria has sparked outrage worldwide. In the plethora of global horrors that we are confronted with daily this register’s particularly close to home.

Girls who were simply taking advantage of that most basic of human rights, the right to an education were enslaved! What trauma and horror must they be experiencing? One immediately associates with the feeling of anxiety, dread, hopelessness and anger that the parents of the beloved daughters who have been snatched away are experiencing.

The hashtag, #BringBackOurGirls, begun by Nigerian activists has become a medium for citizens around the globe to express their solidarity with the families of the girls and also to pressure the Nigerian government, which’s abysmal response has not only been lackadaisical but negligent. As Nigerian writer and activist, Ijeowa Uduma told Democracy Now!,

Yes, we are just hashtagging, but guess what: Everybody all over the world are also hashtagging and putting pressure on the government. So this is what we want, for people to keep talking, keep tweeting, keep calling, keep protesting. That’s what is putting pressure on the government.

There are a number of variables and mysteries that add to the complexity of the situation in Nigeria. What is Boko Haram? When did it begin? Who funds them? What are their goals? Where are they hiding? These are some of the questions that are begging to be answered. What we do know is that the answers to these questions aren’t easy or straight forward. Ilisha highlighted this point quite succinctly in a previous article on Boko Haram,

…Boko Haram has evolved into a franchise that includes criminal groups claiming its identity. Revealingly, Nigeria’s State Security Services issued a statement on Nov. 30, identifying members of four “criminal syndicates” that send threatening text messages in the name of Boko Haram. Southern Nigerians — not northern Muslims — ran three of these four syndicates, including the one that led the American Embassy and other foreign missions to issue warnings that emptied Abuja’s high-end hotels. And last week, the security services arrested a Christian southerner wearing northern Muslim garb as he set fire to a church in the Niger Delta. In Nigeria, religious terrorism is not always what it seems. (via. New York Times)

It should go without saying that there is nothing within Islam today, or in fact, in pre-modern classical Shariah that would justify the kidnapping of girls in schools and selling them as wives and or slaves. Muslims are as outraged as anyone else, Al-Azhar has chimed in, and many others in condemnation and demand for action.

The theory that Boko Haram’s agenda is to “Islamize” is unconvincing, considering that nine Nigerian states have already incorporated Shariah as law.

Christianist vs. Islamist?:

While we seek answers to the above questions and pray for the rescue of the girls, it is important to note that Western journalists and media outlets have been extremely irresponsible in lazily describing Boko Haram as an “Islamist” and or “Islamic” group.

Boko Haram terrorists, kidnap victims believed hiding in vast and treacherous forest–Fox News (“The ruthless Islamic terrorist behind the kidnapping of hundreds of Nigerian schoolgirls…”)
Boko Haram holds girls, kills 300 Nigerians–USA Today (“On Wednesday, Nigerian officials confirmed that Islamists killed as many as 300 people in the town of Gamboru Ngala…”)
Boko Haram’s Local Fight Suddenly Gets International Scrutiny–NPR (“The radical Islamist group Boko Haram isn’t new…”)
Boko Haram ‘to sell’ Nigeria girls abducted from Chibok–BBC (“Nigerian Islamist militant group Boko Haram…”)
Boko Haram: The group behind the brazen Nigerian schoolgirl kidnappings–CBC (“Islamic group kidnapped over 300 Nigerian schoolgirls…The group is part of a jihadist Islamist organization that has been linked to al-Qaeda…”)

The Lord’s Resistance Army has operated for years as one of Africa’s most brutal terrorist militias. Some of the favorite tactics of the LRA include kidnapping and turning captives into slaves,

The Lord’s Resistance Army (LRA), one of the oldest and most brutal armed groups in Africa, has murdered, raped, kidnapped and maimed tens of thousands of men, women and children, plundered villages and turned their captives into fighters, servants and sex slaves.

In a clear double standard the LRA’s, (its leader Joseph Kony is fond of describing himself as a “devout Christian“) relation to Christianity is rarely mentioned in media reports. When it is mentioned there is a painstaking effort to relate how bizarre, cult-like and deviant the LRA’s ideology is from mainstream Christianity. Most news outlets and agencies refer to the LRA as a “rebel army.”

Armed U.S. Advisers to Help Fight African Renegade Group–NYTimes (“President Obama said Friday that he had ordered the deployment of 100 armed military advisers to central Africa to help regional forces combat the Lord’s Resistance Army, a notorious renegade group…”)
Joseph Kony in hiding near South Sudan border, UN states–Telegraph (No mention of the LRA as terrorists, Christian associated, extremists, or even a militia)
LRA Commander Captured in Central African Republic–Voice of America (“The LRA is notoriousThe rebel group formed in…)
Why have one in four fled their homes in CAR?–BBC (“Added to the mix, the Ugandan rebel movement, the Lord’s Resistance Army…”)
Jungle horror: A survivor of Uganda’s Lord’s Resistance Army tells his story–Fox News (“Rebels serving in Kony’s Lord’s Resistance Army, a violent cult that mixes a warped Christian fundamentalism with African mysticism and violence…”)

Not one mention of the LRA as”Christianist” or “extremist Christian.”

This is a good place to remind readers that “Islamist” is quite often used as a blunt polemical hammer that dumbs down our understanding and quite often conflates fringe and even cult-like groups such as Boko Haram with “Islam” as a whole,

“Islamism” is a fraught term, as it attempts to describe a disparate, diverse and geographically spread out phenomenon that is ever evolving in monolithic language. While some groups and ideologues self-describe as “Islamiyoon” (Islamists), often groups who do not are also lumped into the category of “Islamism.”

Adding to the fraught nature of the term many Muslims reject its validity wholesale. It doesn’t matter to them if it is employed by political groups for purposes of self-description or not because of the abuse and violence many of its proponents both Muslim and non-Muslim perpetrate against “Islam.”

Islam of course predates the concept of “Islamism,” a thoroughly modern phenomenon that quixotically attempts to unite “deen wa dawla” (religion and state), establish an “Islamic state,” and reconcile the ideology of nationalism within an Islamic politics.

The contradictions between Islam and this broad conception of “Islamism” are evident. Dawla for most of Islamic history and literature has been defined and referred to as meaning “dynasty.” The modern nation state conception was an outgrowth of Christian Europe and is alien to the long history of Islam which favored strong societies and weak governments rather than strong states and weak societies. Islam and the modern concept of nationalism are also in tension.

At the end of the day we are all repulsed by the evil actions of Boko Haram, but we should not and cannot fall into paralysis. If you believe in prayer, yes, you should pray, but don’t stop there, contribute to organizations that are seeking to end sexual slavery, for instance in our own backyard here in the USA.​
 
The cause of Allah you say, who decides that?
I already answered that to @Kloitra

It is a general term:

1) Khalifa - no not a Sultan (coz Sultan doesnt allow the circulation of wealth hence is not allowed in Islam)
-not one who goes around killing for no reason

It is called when oppression occurs or when you are thrown out of your land ...it is a strive (Jihad) for good...

But the war can only be called by a Khalifah who has be recognized and is established and has REASON to call for it...

You can summarize why they quoted it incorrectly, you are more learned than me and have a better background.
Sorry but I am not one who goes digging such crap and nor do I enjoy reading such crap....For me it is equally as disgusting as reading the joys of death of someone else!


It includes disbelief, so how is it wrong?
It can also apply to Muslims


There it is said we and also I, do they mean the same?
This is when you need to know a little bit of Arabic grammar...clears alot of confusion!

Now that is their problem ...the blame of misusing should not be throw on the religion but on the blamer!

Like when a doctor does malpractice do you say medicine is bad field? Yet many doctors do organ business....why havent we banned or maligned medicine that badly? Coz it has its good and those who are knowledgeable in it see it (basically anyone who has been to a doc) yet we have morons who see modern medicine as a thing from the satan :o:


I tried as best as I could....
@SamantK and @SarthakGanguly there are 2 of you? :o: I have been thinking its the same person

You will have to find your own way to deal with this, I am afraid.
Oh I have no problem dealing with it....

I just worry about those who get classified and get racist attacks....

No matter how much you ignore it but it does hurt ...For me it raises questions as that in post 1!
 
The media give ample opportunity to all points of view. The burden of proof lies on the Muslims to show how their religion is as peaceful as they claim it to be, in light of what is happening in Muslim countries.


That's an uphill task, how does a Muslim convince a non Muslim about the peacefulness of his religion? there's no major religious group in the world that hasn't had a run in with Islam. Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Jews, Parsi's, Sindhi's, Yazidi's, Animists - all sects of every religion have seen violence and blood against Muslims. One can argue as to who was the initiator or who was the initial oppressor, but one cannot deny the fact that Islam has rules in place which caters to how a Muslim should behave and deal and what is the appropriate punishment for a non Muslim differentiating them by terming them pagans, idol worshipers or people of the book or Munafiq or something, and what's in store as a reward in the afterlife after ridding the world ofthem.

A Muslim, from his own behavior can show that individually he doesn't subscribe to the violent side and that he believes in peaceful co-existence, but it is near impossible to convince someone of the peacefulness of the entire religion while there are bodies piling up every second of every hour.
 
Unless You Called Lord’s Resistance Army “Christianist” Stop Calling Boko Haram “Islamist” (Unless You Called Lord's Resistance Army "Christianist" Stop Calling Boko Haram "Islamist" | loonwatch.com

By Garibaldi


The kidnappings by the shadowy group known as Boko Haram of 300 school girls in Nigeria has sparked outrage worldwide. In the plethora of global horrors that we are confronted with daily this register’s particularly close to home.

Girls who were simply taking advantage of that most basic of human rights, the right to an education were enslaved! What trauma and horror must they be experiencing? One immediately associates with the feeling of anxiety, dread, hopelessness and anger that the parents of the beloved daughters who have been snatched away are experiencing.

The hashtag, #BringBackOurGirls, begun by Nigerian activists has become a medium for citizens around the globe to express their solidarity with the families of the girls and also to pressure the Nigerian government, which’s abysmal response has not only been lackadaisical but negligent. As Nigerian writer and activist, Ijeowa Uduma told Democracy Now!,

Yes, we are just hashtagging, but guess what: Everybody all over the world are also hashtagging and putting pressure on the government. So this is what we want, for people to keep talking, keep tweeting, keep calling, keep protesting. That’s what is putting pressure on the government.

There are a number of variables and mysteries that add to the complexity of the situation in Nigeria. What is Boko Haram? When did it begin? Who funds them? What are their goals? Where are they hiding? These are some of the questions that are begging to be answered. What we do know is that the answers to these questions aren’t easy or straight forward. Ilisha highlighted this point quite succinctly in a previous article on Boko Haram,

…Boko Haram has evolved into a franchise that includes criminal groups claiming its identity. Revealingly, Nigeria’s State Security Services issued a statement on Nov. 30, identifying members of four “criminal syndicates” that send threatening text messages in the name of Boko Haram. Southern Nigerians — not northern Muslims — ran three of these four syndicates, including the one that led the American Embassy and other foreign missions to issue warnings that emptied Abuja’s high-end hotels. And last week, the security services arrested a Christian southerner wearing northern Muslim garb as he set fire to a church in the Niger Delta. In Nigeria, religious terrorism is not always what it seems. (via. New York Times)

It should go without saying that there is nothing within Islam today, or in fact, in pre-modern classical Shariah that would justify the kidnapping of girls in schools and selling them as wives and or slaves. Muslims are as outraged as anyone else, Al-Azhar has chimed in, and many others in condemnation and demand for action.

04826152d24a3d1ef88530efa864e63b.jpgThe theory that Boko Haram’s agenda is to “Islamize” is unconvincing, considering that nine Nigerian states have already incorporated Shariah as law.

Christianist vs. Islamist?:

While we seek answers to the above questions and pray for the rescue of the girls, it is important to note that Western journalists and media outlets have been extremely irresponsible in lazily describing Boko Haram as an “Islamist” and or “Islamic” group.

Boko Haram terrorists, kidnap victims believed hiding in vast and treacherous forest–Fox News (“The ruthless Islamic terrorist behind the kidnapping of hundreds of Nigerian schoolgirls…”)
Boko Haram holds girls, kills 300 Nigerians–USA Today (“On Wednesday, Nigerian officials confirmed that Islamists killed as many as 300 people in the town of Gamboru Ngala…”)
Boko Haram’s Local Fight Suddenly Gets International Scrutiny–NPR (“The radical Islamist group Boko Haram isn’t new…”)
Boko Haram ‘to sell’ Nigeria girls abducted from Chibok–BBC (“Nigerian Islamist militant group Boko Haram…”)
Boko Haram: The group behind the brazen Nigerian schoolgirl kidnappings–CBC (“Islamic group kidnapped over 300 Nigerian schoolgirls…The group is part of a jihadist Islamist organization that has been linked to al-Qaeda…”)

The Lord’s Resistance Army has operated for years as one of Africa’s most brutal terrorist militias. Some of the favorite tactics of the LRA include kidnapping and turning captives into slaves,

The Lord’s Resistance Army (LRA), one of the oldest and most brutal armed groups in Africa, has murdered, raped, kidnapped and maimed tens of thousands of men, women and children, plundered villages and turned their captives into fighters, servants and sex slaves.

In a clear double standard the LRA’s, (its leader Joseph Kony is fond of describing himself as a “devout Christian“) relation to Christianity is rarely mentioned in media reports. When it is mentioned there is a painstaking effort to relate how bizarre, cult-like and deviant the LRA’s ideology is from mainstream Christianity. Most news outlets and agencies refer to the LRA as a “rebel army.”

Armed U.S. Advisers to Help Fight African Renegade Group–NYTimes (“President Obama said Friday that he had ordered the deployment of 100 armed military advisers to central Africa to help regional forces combat the Lord’s Resistance Army, a notorious renegade group…”)
Joseph Kony in hiding near South Sudan border, UN states–Telegraph (No mention of the LRA as terrorists, Christian associated, extremists, or even a militia)
LRA Commander Captured in Central African Republic–Voice of America (“The LRA is notoriousThe rebel group formed in…)
Why have one in four fled their homes in CAR?–BBC (“Added to the mix, the Ugandan rebel movement, the Lord’s Resistance Army…”)
Jungle horror: A survivor of Uganda’s Lord’s Resistance Army tells his story–Fox News (“Rebels serving in Kony’s Lord’s Resistance Army, a violent cult that mixes a warped Christian fundamentalism with African mysticism and violence…”)

Not one mention of the LRA as”Christianist” or “extremist Christian.”

This is a good place to remind readers that “Islamist” is quite often used as a blunt polemical hammer that dumbs down our understanding and quite often conflates fringe and even cult-like groups such as Boko Haram with “Islam” as a whole,

“Islamism” is a fraught term, as it attempts to describe a disparate, diverse and geographically spread out phenomenon that is ever evolving in monolithic language. While some groups and ideologues self-describe as “Islamiyoon” (Islamists), often groups who do not are also lumped into the category of “Islamism.”

Adding to the fraught nature of the term many Muslims reject its validity wholesale. It doesn’t matter to them if it is employed by political groups for purposes of self-description or not because of the abuse and violence many of its proponents both Muslim and non-Muslim perpetrate against “Islam.”

Islam of course predates the concept of “Islamism,” a thoroughly modern phenomenon that quixotically attempts to unite “deen wa dawla” (religion and state), establish an “Islamic state,” and reconcile the ideology of nationalism within an Islamic politics.

The contradictions between Islam and this broad conception of “Islamism” are evident. Dawla for most of Islamic history and literature has been defined and referred to as meaning “dynasty.” The modern nation state conception was an outgrowth of Christian Europe and is alien to the long history of Islam which favored strong societies and weak governments rather than strong states and weak societies. Islam and the modern concept of nationalism are also in tension.

At the end of the day we are all repulsed by the evil actions of Boko Haram, but we should not and cannot fall into paralysis. If you believe in prayer, yes, you should pray, but don’t stop there, contribute to organizations that are seeking to end sexual slavery, for instance in our own backyard here in the USA.​
Yet people understand not :tsk:
 
@Akheilos

Why are you wasting your time with people? When you show a sign of weakness like that they will bring you down even more. We don't need to do anything, or clarify anything. No matter what you do anyways, they are here with an agenda. It is destroy your morals and belief in God. I tell them to go kill their selves. God is their King and will always remain so and God will give victory to the believers.

A banned Indian is trying to make outrage out of execution of treasonous terrorists even after I explained everything to him, but they make no outrage out of execution of million Algerians for example by colonial terrorists. And a traitor Pakistani who was deported from Pakistan for treason is making a big fuss out of nothing.

The biggest perpatrators of violence on earth are trying to use that argument against you. It's a farce. They can get lost.

These people want you to renounce your religion because they support evil. Islam will never go down, let me make it clear to the terrorists. Islam will never support immorality. They succeeded with Jews, Christian through promotion of immorality. This is a war on religion and we are the last people on the list. And Islam won't surrender to lucifer worshipping scumbags.

They should just give up, no matter how much they push their pyschological war. They will do counter effect and terrorists will be defeated.

What?? Lol explain the bold. :o:
 
but one cannot deny the fact that Islam has rules in place which caters to how a Muslim should behave with a non Muslim differentiating them by terming them pagans, or people of the book or Munafiq or something.
And so does Judaism but no one cries anyone a river there!

Gentile (from Latingentilis, by the French "gentil", feminine: "gentille", meaning of or belonging to a clan or tribe) is an ethnonym that commonly means non-Jew.

Pagan is an English word ....which even in modern day English you would call pagan!

People of the book is not singling out 1 person but the group known as Abrahamic religion and includes Muslims

Munafiq simply means hypocrite...just in Arabic and Urdu...
 

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