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Terrorist Attack On PAF camp Badaber : 29 people massacred, 13 terrorists killed.

@balixd @Irfan Baloch @Icarus @Horus @Jango @Bilal Khan 777 CTD Peshawar gave very specific alert,location of terrorists and number of terrorists To PAF officials at Budhbeer camp one week before the attack. It is Kamra base attack deja vu all over again. Terror alert given one week before. Still didn;t act upon it

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Maybe that is why the response was as efficient as it was.

Let's be clear about one thing, you cannot stop attacks like these from happening once in a while...they WILL happen. But it's the response that needs to be made up to par, and in this attack, I think it was above the satisfactory level, especially considering our past fck ups.

And as Icarus has already said, alerts like these are generated every other day...some are deemed credible, some not.

BTW, there was a report of an attack on Kamra as well, which was thwarted.
 
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The LEAs are fully aware of the trust of our people, it is the wind beneath our wings and we won't be able to accomplish anything without it. That being said, I think this incident is being subjected to undue scrutiny. We are at a state of war and regrettable as it is, there will be times when we will also have to take a hit. The attack was inevitable but what is noteworthy here is that the response to the attack was effective, the terrorists were limited in the first 30m and were not allowed to reach their targets, which were the family accommodations.
The LEAs will constantly work to improve our response capacity and we will win this war, God-willing.

At about 11am Khalid Khurrasani claimed that the attackers had killed over 250 people and were still attacking, that was the intended scale of the attack.

That newspaper clipping it has the number of potential attackers, their location and their intention ............... as CTD claims, does getting a sign on alert by an official of the camp relieves CTD of its responsibility? Or is it typical attitude that not my jurisdiction cannot do much. 1500 kartoos, 97 magzines, 7 RPG rifles, 29 IEDS, 29 Grenades, 7 daggers, machine guns and 13-14 people itna kuch to andhay ko bhi nazar a jay sir. And if I suppose what Bilal777 here claimed is right that it was a music gala night at camp that wrapped around 4am. Then It was ALLAH and his men like Asfandyar who saved us from a huge tragedy as compared to loss we suffered, otherwise hum nay to poora moka farham kia hay unhay. Public ko kab andhairy say bahir nikalnay ka irada hy ya khali peeli support he mangni hay bus?

And as far as some of the claims that I heard there were instances when we knew that they are coming, we were that much ready and prepared that the response was truck loads of dead bodies. This claim was made in regards to some attack on PRC in Mardan I don't know if it is correct or not and credible or not?
 
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Brashness cannot be utilised in our situation. However, we need to be equally hard against all sympathizers.
You are analyzing the situation in a different way.What im trying to say is that with no retaliation at all from our side will further make us look like totally submissive and weak to them which will then demoralize our soldiers and civilians as well.(Already Gen Raheel has worked alot to restore the respect and honour of the Arm Forces and Soldiers which was somewhat lost in Gen Kiyani's Tenure(him being a Politicised General) and also during Gen Musharaf's tenure(him being completely Aggressive in his policies which werent fruitful in the long run)

And frankly speaking what have we gained so far by getting ourselves diplomatically engaged with Afghan Gov.? You do know Gen Raheel rushed to Afghanistan after APS Attack to have some talks with them? You do know we had several meetings with some of the Afghan groups just recently in Murree? Then the recent written agreement between our and their Intelligence Agencies? and What was the outcome? They killed our soldiers on our side of the border and what did we do? We just protested! They again after APS attack,allowed their land to be used by the militants to kill and attack our Sensitive areas and Young Soldiers!

And Please dont compare China with Afghanistan!

China never allowed her Soil/People against us.

China never allowed any third country on her land to be involved in proxy wars against Pakistan.

Chinese dont have religious and ideological similarities like with us like Afghanese still theres an element of mutual respect and trust between us and Chinese.

We dont get to face Chinese hostility on our border with them every other day like we do with Afghanistan.

This Diplomatic Shiplomatic thing wouldnt work in Afghanistan's case because Revenge is their Motto...Bullet is their Childhood Love and Guns are their everyday Romance..They dont understand any other Lang.They live with this ideology and die with it as well!

Sadly it's we who are on the receiving end here!


We had treated IDPs and other Loyal Afghans very respectfully in the recent past.You do remember how people on individual and collective level financially,morally and physically supported them when they needed us in that crises.I personally saw people giving away their Salaries,Pocket money and other goods to help our brothers and sisters in pain.I have no problem with Loyal Afghanese living in Pakistan,they are as much Pakistanies as Me,You or Anybudy else.

Its just the disloyal ones that should be kicked out of here and be dealt with force.A Terrorist's Sympathizer,Financier and Helper is a Terrorist himself.As simple as that!
 
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Abattoirs,FACILITATORS & FINANCIERS

& TRAITORS

of this should be caught and punished.

even people on the street didn't see 16 bloody men walking up to the base carrying weapons?
 
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Brashness cannot be utilised in our situation. However, we need to be equally hard against all sympathizers.
You are analyzing the situation in a different way.What im trying to say is that with no retaliation at all from our side will further make us look like totally submissive and weak to them which will then demoralize our soldiers and civilians as well.(Already Gen Raheel has worked alot to restore the respect and honour of the Arm Forces and Soldiers which was somewhat lost in Gen Kiyani's Tenure(him being a Politicised General) and also during Gen Musharaf's tenure(him being completely Aggressive in his policies which werent fruitful in the long run)

And frankly speaking what have we gained so far by getting ourselves diplomatically engaged with Afghan Gov.? You do know Gen Raheel rushed to Afghanistan after APS Attack to have some talks with them? You do know we had several meetings with some of the Afghan groups just recently in Murree? Then the recent written agreement between our and their Intelligence Agencies? and What was the outcome? They killed our soldiers on our side of the border and what did we do? We just protested! They again after APS attack,allowed their land to be used by the militants to kill and attack our Sensitive areas and Young Soldiers!

And Please dont compare China with Afghanistan!

China never allowed her Soil/People against us.

China never allowed any third country on her land to be involved in proxy wars against Pakistan.

Chinese dont have religious and ideological similarities like with us like Afghanese still theres an element of mutual respect and trust between us and Chinese.

We dont get to face Chinese hostility on our border with them every other day like we do with Afghanistan.

This Diplomatic Shiplomatic thing wouldnt work in Afghanistan's case because Revenge is their Motto...Bullet is their Childhood Love and Guns are their everyday Romance..They dont understand any other Lang.They live with this ideology and die with it as well!

Sadly it's we who are on the receiving end here!


We had treated IDPs and other Loyal Afghans very respectfully in the recent past.You do remember how people on individual and collective level financially,morally and physically supported them when they needed us in that crises.I personally saw people giving away their Salaries,Pocket money and other goods to help our brothers and sisters in pain.I have no problem with Loyal Afghanese living in Pakistan,they are as much Pakistanies as Me,You or Anybudy else.

Its just the disloyal ones that should be kicked out of here and be dealt with force.A Terrorist's Sympathizer,Financier and Helper is a Terrorist himself.As simple as that!

See, that's the point DV, most of the people are not aware of the sheer volume of intelligence/counterintell that Pakistan is experiencing. Reason? We're at war. These guys didn't attack a civilian institute, they attacked a military base. All of us have been told what the situation is and the best we can do is to remain prepared. That was adequately done.
Wow, You are talking like when everyone supposed to be obliged to agree with you!

In my point of view, that was Intelligence/counter-Intelligence fault no matter (ABCDEFGHIJK which agencies) and security laps.

That's debatable the intensity of intelligence required in Afghanistan to thwart any potential mishap and how.
 
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@jaibi Air Force should have 10000 QRF of its own and every base should have at least 50 people protecting the installations all the time including snipers
 
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1) PAF didn't fail, it is not their job to be on the roads, you can't ask army to do the job of police.

2) Civil administration has to step up, can't spend Rs100 Billion for just 2 metros while we forget about development in FATA! Development in these areas will do 90% of our job, but politicians have always let us down.

3) No need to secure the whole Durrand line! Most of these TTP scums are in Nuristan, Kunar, Nangarhar, secure these border areas as first priority, rest we can deal with.

4) Govt needs to step up its diplomacy as well, need to hand over/share all the dossier's, on Indian RAW's involvement in Afghanistan, with every friendly/ally & non-ally nations.

5) Give better equipment & training to FC & police.

6) Need to go all out now, with full might.

btw this base has always been a residential area. officers live here, most probably planned to kill them & their families.

still a failure since our men died. We cannot win this war without sincere efforts by the civil leadership, & can we just put all these mullah's behind bars or kill them? they're the most hypocrite of all!
Need to do vulnerability assessment on bases, camps, cantonments, on regular basis and it should be audited by third party teams. The teams should be from different arms.
 
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Hi,

PDF members in particular and Pakistani in general---are you now ready to look at the screw ups and lapses in the security of the base---.

I mean to say----you can raise all kinds of slogans---and do all kinds of Ra Ra Ra----and talk about the bravado of the military men and that is fine----but do you have the courage to point the finger at yourself---and your security apparatus and how it failed?

It is over due now---.
are you kidding, sir. I and @Areesh and couple of others said that yesterday, 40 pages ago, this is a huge security failure, all the gallantry aside. Let's see here, I've studied and implemented security and planning professionally. And enemies knocking on your front door of sensitive military location, able to inflict so much pain, means your security sucks balls.

The worst performance was displayed at the GHQ 6 years ago. Where they only had a front guard check post that enemies were able to infiltrate easily and access the inner rings of the GHQ. Both Kamra and Mehran bases were just as bad if not worse. This one here, wasn't bad at those level but still a huge security failure.

When you design security for a sensitive, high target location. You implement security in tiers. Most commonly in three tiers, outer, inner and a mid level. But depending on high profile nature of a place you can increase the tiers. So lets see, the outer layer would be your guard check post with id scanners and a road block barrier. The barrier is very important as it impedes and controls traffic i.e. car or truck laden with explosives. Now comes your mid level ring. This is where you're going to post your heavy duty gear, more scanners and heavy duty barriers. The most important rule of thumb is, you cannot have any soft targets, offices, cafeterias, gyms, playgrounds, places of worships, in between the outer and mid level. Because in the even the outer tier is breached enemy can inflict damage on you. As in this case, where terrorist were limited to the outer check post but still were able to access the mosque and kill people.

So, now you've implement your three tiers. Are you safe? No. Question is what kind of coordination and communication you have between your security rings. If the outer level is engaged, are they alerting the mid and inner level immediatly. Without cooperation, your security apparatus falls to it's knees.

This isn't the first time a Pakistani military base came under attack. They should have upgraded their security after GHQ breached. You live in the US, you've seen how security of buildings where public must have access works. Rings and rings of security is in place. Heavy duty barriers, guard dogs, scanners, the works. It can be done in Pakistan, too. But only if they value human life. Sadly, they dont. A soldier dying while engaged with terrorists is praised beyond words, but no body, not even his family, asks questions, why their son was killed? it was due to your poor security that you failed to protect my son. But no body asks questions. And thus, the powers that be, continue to play with the lives of poor Pakistanis.
 
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There are dozens of such alerts generated on a daily basis, it is easier to highlight one in hindsight. That is particularly true for badaber, since its an area with significant terrorist activity.
dont want to disclose location on open forum but I have witnessed a "wont happen here and to me" attitude at one place during my recent visit.
god help us
 
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Hi,

PDF members in particular and Pakistani in general---are you now ready to look at the screw ups and lapses in the security of the base---.

I mean to say----you can raise all kinds of slogans---and do all kinds of Ra Ra Ra----and talk about the bravado of the military men and that is fine----but do you have the courage to point the finger at yourself---and your security apparatus and how it failed?

It is over due now---.
there is no way to prevent attack on a base so the only saving grace will be loss minimisation. the real victory is going after these terrorists and drag their dead bodies out of mosques, madrassahs, caves and houses
the attack was a success as far as TTP is concerned they scored bug by killing the people in the mosque
the only thing is that they were all killed through gunshots of the military and the ones shown in pictures didnt manage to blow themselves up although all had samtax laden explosives vests on them.

i dont expect any better reaction or defence of any bases or schools or mosques that will come under attack next time.
the win will be when you or me will go our selves and start mob lynching of those known living among us that are hosting the terrorists because our leaders are busy saving the democracy and the military is still licking the lal masjid wounds

Let those fallen rest in peace.....

I really think Pakistan should think about its policy of using proxy...Because TTP also was a proxy of Pakistan once...
our proxies are Kashimri Mujahideen and Mullah Omar . they have never attacked us

TTP, BLA and Mukti Bahani are your proxies.. they have only fought against Pakistan ..either you are acting stupid and innocent or a clever dick but failing badly.. TTP leadership and its members have no history of going out of the country to fight someone else.
like BLA .. TTP leadership sits in Afghanistan and is assisted by Indians. just like Mukti Bahani was by you.
so as long as you will continue with your policy .. attacks on Indian camps and patrols will continue... works both ways my innocent and ill informed good hearted peace loving shanti singing friend
 
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Yes that has been a regular MO of the terrorists to try and engage a post in a firefight and then attempt to use the fog of war as a cover to slip people into the border. However, that tactic was most effective when PA held only fringes of land along the border and some strategic positions whereas the TTP held most of the agencies. Now, the situation is drastically changed, there are more posts overlooking these approaches which makes it difficult to engage them all at the same time plus they have arty and mortar support from their coy, bn or bd HQ, the roads are all held by the LEAs and there are checkpoints all over, local lashkars police the tribal territory along with FC. So over all, it has become more difficult for Ts to just cross over and attack en mass. What is important now, is to eliminate local command structures and sympathizers that do not cross the border but keep rotating militants between areas to keep them from being found out until its time to launch an attack. And these people are not coming from Afghanistan, you might remember after the attack on Shuja Khanzada, conspirators were arrested from a madrassah in Islamabad built less than two kilometers from IIU. So yes, whereas cross border elements are responsible for this carnage, local elements are the ones that are making sure that it is successful and even if we were to seal the border, they would have no problem recruiting from local madrassahs. That is why an inward looking approach is being stressed at the moment and IBOs in urban/semi-urban areas are targeting seemingly well known and respected local figures who secretly maintained ties with outfits like AQ, IS, TTP, LeJ, etc.



The data was not destroyed, that is the beauty of the data. It was only the physical infrastructure that was damaged, which if the will of the civil govt exists, can easily be replaced in a day to resume operations as per routine. I'm no fan of Afghans either, but I have lived in FATA during these Ops and I understand the stakes of the local population in Afghanistan and across. People are married across the Durand Line, have homes on one side and grazing ground on the other, some just come to work in Pakistan as daily wage labourers. So there is some genuine traffic.



We have significantly strengthened our side of the border, I assure you. One of our primary concerns is to make this border safer for Pakistan. Geography has done us no favour as the Durand Line was made on a map with next to no input from the ground, and in many places makes no sense but none the less, we have established posts where there were previously none and constantly work to plug the gaps in the border and channel traffic towards the official crossing points.

:hitwall:I swear this conversation was about having a physical barrier at the borders but it has dragged in so many irrelevant points in the conversation. Do you have a wall Phobia? living in houses must be difficult!
 
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Please watch this program and listen to the views of Brig (R).Javed Hussain...

thank you for posting. I watched it and Brig. Javed Hussain is my new hero. THis is how a solider should talk, that's the old breed for you. Gallant and outspoken. He openly admits to security failures in this attack and all the way down to GHQ.

What I found interesting is he's in favor of taking the fight to TTP in Afghanistan. So, what say people. Brig. retired suggested we use either SSG or an airstrike, now Buraq is also available and take out fazullah. Second option is convince the U.S. to take him out. I love how Brig. said, forget Afghan gov't, they'll never be on board, we have to take the fight to ttp there. I'm in favor of this idea. take that bastard pig out, it'll save us a lot of innocent people on our side. Relations with Afghan will take a down turn but in time it'll be a thing of the past and diplomacy can continue with them.
 
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:hitwall:I swear this conversation was about having a physical barrier at the borders but it has dragged in so many irrelevant points in the conversation. Do you have a wall Phobia? living in houses must be difficult!

I am merely being pragmatic, if believing in a wall makes you feel at ease, please do so by all means.
 
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there is no way to prevent attack on a base so the only saving grace will be loss minimisation. the real victory is going after these terrorists and drag their dead bodies out of mosques, madrassahs, caves and houses
the attack was a success as far as TTP is concerned they scored bug by killing the people in the mosque
the only thing is that they were all killed through gunshots of the military and the ones shown in pictures didnt manage to blow themselves up although all had samtax laden explosives vests on them.

i dont expect any better reaction or defence of any bases or schools or mosques that will come under attack next time.
the win will be when you or me will go our selves and start mob lynching of those known living among us that are hosting the terrorists because our leaders are busy saving the democracy and the military is still licking the lal masjid wounds
I have a few comments.
1) It is obvious that we need more drills.
2) For the sake of morale loss of life has to be minimized and Shahadat is great but we need more ghazis in order to keep enemy down.
3)Command posts should be in APCs wherever possible to minimize the exposure.
4) There is always room for improvement so revisit all incidents with open mind instead of defensive attitude.
5) Do vulnerability assessment on regular basis from outside in view. Get feed back from all levels (Sepoys, NCOs etc.) and from non defense reliable personnel as untrained persons can see things which trained persons may miss.
6) Always believe there is room for improvement.
7) Instead of blaming a lack of resources, always think how current resources can be utilized better.
 
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