Terrorist Attack On PAF camp Badaber : 29 people massacred, 13 terrorists killed.

[Marshmallow]

Diplomatic composure is very important. You might have read that we once pursued the policy of opposing PRC's secession to the UNSC permanent seat for China however through diplomatic efforts, we became very close allies at one time. Just because we have had a contentious history with Afghanistan does not mean that we need also have a bleak future as well. Like it or not, we have to keep Afghanistan in our fold or risk having India at both of our borders.

You are analyzing the situation in a different way.What im trying to say is that with no retaliation at all from our side will further make us look like totally submissive and weak to them which will then demoralize our soldiers and civilians as well.(Already Gen Raheel has worked alot to restore the respect and honour of the Arm Forces and Soldiers which was somewhat lost in Gen Kiyani's Tenure(him being a Politicised General) and also during Gen Musharaf's tenure(him being completely Aggressive in his policies which werent fruitful in the long run)

And frankly speaking what have we gained so far by getting ourselves diplomatically engaged with Afghan Gov.? You do know Gen Raheel rushed to Afghanistan after APS Attack to have some talks with them? You do know we had several meetings with some of the Afghan groups just recently in Murree? Then the recent written agreement between our and their Intelligence Agencies? and What was the outcome? They killed our soldiers on our side of the border and what did we do? We just protested! They again after APS attack,allowed their land to be used by the militants to kill and attack our Sensitive areas and Young Soldiers!

And Please dont compare China with Afghanistan!

China never allowed her Soil/People against us.

China never allowed any third country on her land to be involved in proxy wars against Pakistan.

Chinese dont have religious and ideological similarities like with us like Afghanese still theres an element of mutual respect and trust between us and Chinese.

We dont get to face Chinese hostility on our border with them every other day like we do with Afghanistan.

This Diplomatic Shiplomatic thing wouldnt work in Afghanistan's case because Revenge is their Motto...Bullet is their Childhood Love and Guns are their everyday Romance..They dont understand any other Lang.They live with this ideology and die with it as well!

Sadly it's we who are on the receiving end here!

A lot of the Afghani people are settled here in Pakistan. They too do not support the TTP, in fact, very few people support the TTP. Our divisions and politics is what lets them thrive. To work against it, we need to start getting courteous and cordial with each other.

We had treated IDPs and other Loyal Afghans very respectfully in the recent past.You do remember how people on individual and collective level financially,morally and physically supported them when they needed us in that crises.I personally saw people giving away their Salaries,Pocket money and other goods to help our brothers and sisters in pain.I have no problem with Loyal Afghanese living in Pakistan,they are as much Pakistanies as Me,You or Anybudy else.

Its just the disloyal ones that should be kicked out of here and be dealt with force.A Terrorist's Sympathizer,Financier and Helper is a Terrorist himself.As simple as that!

 

[Assange]

Let those fallen rest in peace.....

I really think Pakistan should think about its policy of using proxy...Because TTP also was a proxy of Pakistan once....now they are sucking its blood....Let Pakistani people tell its army and the people who are devising strategy of using proxy against its enemies...I don't know what makes Pakistan strategist think that today what they are calling as assets (i.e., proxy) won't turn back against them like TTP..... or become an liability to Pakistan and asset to its enemies.....

 

[indiatester]

Let those fallen rest in peace.....

I really think Pakistan should think about its policy of using proxy...Because TTP also was a proxy of Pakistan once....now they are sucking its blood....Let Pakistani people tell its army and the people who are devising strategy of using proxy against its enemies...I don't know what makes Pakistan strategist think that today what they are calling as assets (i.e., proxy) won't turn back against them like TTP..... or become an liability to Pakistan and asset to its enemies.....

You think? The same seniors who curse the terrorists who cause carnage in their land, go around saying RIP when they get roasted in our land
case in point
Hizbul commander's bullet- riddled body recovered in Kashmir

 

[Mrc]

Indians and even US are also using proxies...

How come ttp is flourishing in afghanistan without US turning a blind eye and indian opening up their coffers for them...

 

[Dil Pakistan]

See the news item below.
Is there a possible link to Lashkar-i-Jhangvi ?

 

[Icarus]

doesn't really give a secure image half the army must stand on open ground with senile ttp could harass from any to multiple directions. unless i am wrong in the past one post gets attacked keeping the post busy making an incision for a group to cross the border. Observation is great for alertness of what is on the horizon but that also translates into a credible defense as well?

Yes that has been a regular MO of the terrorists to try and engage a post in a firefight and then attempt to use the fog of war as a cover to slip people into the border. However, that tactic was most effective when PA held only fringes of land along the border and some strategic positions whereas the TTP held most of the agencies. Now, the situation is drastically changed, there are more posts overlooking these approaches which makes it difficult to engage them all at the same time plus they have arty and mortar support from their coy, bn or bd HQ, the roads are all held by the LEAs and there are checkpoints all over, local lashkars police the tribal territory along with FC. So over all, it has become more difficult for Ts to just cross over and attack en mass. What is important now, is to eliminate local command structures and sympathizers that do not cross the border but keep rotating militants between areas to keep them from being found out until its time to launch an attack. And these people are not coming from Afghanistan, you might remember after the attack on Shuja Khanzada, conspirators were arrested from a madrassah in Islamabad built less than two kilometers from IIU. So yes, whereas cross border elements are responsible for this carnage, local elements are the ones that are making sure that it is successful and even if we were to seal the border, they would have no problem recruiting from local madrassahs. That is why an inward looking approach is being stressed at the moment and IBOs in urban/semi-urban areas are targeting seemingly well known and respected local figures who secretly maintained ties with outfits like AQ, IS, TTP, LeJ, etc.

'Destroyed in a firefight', 'Supposed to indicate' what more can be said it really does not install confidence if the biometric data can be easily destroyed like that. I didn't know people who overstayed their welcome always get sent packing either. There is no real white Traffic from afghanistan and that is a fact.

The data was not destroyed, that is the beauty of the data. It was only the physical infrastructure that was damaged, which if the will of the civil govt exists, can easily be replaced in a day to resume operations as per routine. I'm no fan of Afghans either, but I have lived in FATA during these Ops and I understand the stakes of the local population in Afghanistan and across. People are married across the Durand Line, have homes on one side and grazing ground on the other, some just come to work in Pakistan as daily wage labourers. So there is some genuine traffic.

Well there is no insulation on the other side doesn't mean we dont insulate our side.

We have significantly strengthened our side of the border, I assure you. One of our primary concerns is to make this border safer for Pakistan. Geography has done us no favour as the Durand Line was made on a map with next to no input from the ground, and in many places makes no sense but none the less, we have established posts where there were previously none and constantly work to plug the gaps in the border and channel traffic towards the official crossing points.

 

[Death Adder]

We have not learnt any lessons from previous attacks. For f*** sake give better weapons, radio coms, and NVG's to security guards.

 

[Neutron]

Hi,

PDF members in particular and Pakistani in general---are you now ready to look at the screw ups and lapses in the security of the base---.

I mean to say----you can raise all kinds of slogans---and do all kinds of Ra Ra Ra----and talk about the bravado of the military men and that is fine----but do you have the courage to point the finger at yourself---and your security apparatus and how it failed?

It is over due now---.

Glass is Half Full
Operation Best of All Possible Solutions as This is Best of All Possible Worlds

 

[Bratva]

@balixd @Irfan Baloch @Icarus @Horus @Jango @Bilal Khan 777 CTD Peshawar gave very specific alert,location of terrorists and number of terrorists To PAF officials at Budhbeer camp one week before the attack. It is Kamra base attack deja vu all over again. Terror alert given one week before. Still didn;t act upon it

 

[Icarus]

@balixd @Irfan Baloch @Icarus @Horus @Jango @Bilal Khan 777 CTD Peshawar gave very specific alert,location of terrorists and number of terrorists To PAF officials at Budhbeer camp one week before the attack. It is Kamra base attack deja vu all over again. Terror alert given one week before. Still didn;t act upon it

There are dozens of such alerts generated on a daily basis, it is easier to highlight one in hindsight. That is particularly true for badaber, since its an area with significant terrorist activity.

 

[Viper0011.]

See the news item below.
Is there a possible link to Lashkar-i-Jhangvi ?
View attachment 258403

In the picture, this security setup is messed up and if this is how they have it across Pakistan, each attack will cause more loss of life.

Here's what needs to happen, besides the barricades, you need a concrete built first check point, with heavy metal ONE door, a bullet proof window on the side where traffic passes by. The other side needs a couple of smaller bullet proof windows through which the security personnel can fire outside. The concrete structure, very heavy metallic door locked at all times, with the a couple of windows would ensure small weapons, even rockets don't kill everyone in the first go and there will be resistance.Cameras linked to the second check post will ensure every attack is being watched by others in a second tier as it starts, so you don't walk into the fire, you know where these people are and you can take them out specifically.

This first check point, is the entry point and if you start resisting here, the quick response force would be here before the first check post is taken down by the terrorists.

Next, about a few hundred meters away, on the SAME on entry, one exit road, you built a slightly bigger check post with more rooms, a basement with a hidden door through a tunnel that takes the security folks out of the check post and brings them back on to the ground around some hidden trees, or areas, etc. So in case the first check post is over taken and the second check post is also under serious threat, some security personnel can exit through the basement tunnel and can surface up behind the terrorists as they'd be trying to take over the second check post. Or simply, reinforcements can be sent to the first check posts from here, while keeping this second tier locked down to resist in case need be,

Last, bravery is one thing, but the security personnel need to be fully covered in armor. These terrorists are trained and way too many times, they shoot low to target security personnel's legs as they know they would have a bullet proof vest on.

Remember, these are not the taliban Pakistan and the US dealt with before 2000 or after 2001, these are now highly trained commandos (thanks for Indian SF"s training and support). Since this attack, some of the weapons captured from the Afghanis include night vision devices, 67 types of different weapons and guns from sniper rifles to AK-47 to stationary machine guns. These are highly sophisticated weapons and require training. And the training has been seen in each of these attacks as they are almost conducted in the special force style (again thanks to your neighbor in turning rag tag militia's into a commando force!!!).

Lastly, kick out all AFGHANIS!!!!! That's the single most critical element. You don't have to sacrifice your young officers if these refugees don't respect Pakistan and her laws. Why have a cancer knowing it will keep hurting every month????

 

[araz]

Wow, You are talking like when everyone supposed to be obliged to agree with you!

In my point of view, that was Intelligence/counter-Intelligence fault no matter (ABCDEFGHIJK which agencies) and security laps.

That's debatable the intensity of intelligence required in Afghanistan to thwart any potential mishap and how.

Thats because you are talking to experience. Learn from it. It will help.
Araz

 

[Shot-Caller]

@balixd @Irfan Baloch @Icarus @Horus @Jango @Bilal Khan 777 CTD Peshawar gave very specific alert,location of terrorists and number of terrorists To PAF officials at Budhbeer camp one week before the attack. It is Kamra base attack deja vu all over again. Terror alert given one week before. Still didn;t act upon it

This is bad. They should have been precautious.

There are dozens of such alerts generated on a daily basis, it is easier to highlight one in hindsight. That is particularly true for badaber, since its an area with significant terrorist activity.

Every alert must be taken seriously even if there are hundreds. We're in a complicated phase where development and investment is being blocked by terrorism. We take pride in our forces for a reason. This is becoming more and more disappointing. If you think this won't affect CPEC and our hopes with it, I'd say you're mistaken.

 

[Icarus]

This is bad. They should have been precautious.

Every alert must be taken seriously even if there are hundreds. We're in a complicated phase where development and investment is being blocked by terrorism. We take pride in our forces for a reason. This is becoming more and more disappointing. If you think this won't affect CPEC and our hopes with it, I'd say you're mistaken.

The LEAs are fully aware of the trust of our people, it is the wind beneath our wings and we won't be able to accomplish anything without it. That being said, I think this incident is being subjected to undue scrutiny. We are at a state of war and regrettable as it is, there will be times when we will also have to take a hit. The attack was inevitable but what is noteworthy here is that the response to the attack was effective, the terrorists were limited in the first 30m and were not allowed to reach their targets, which were the family accommodations.
The LEAs will constantly work to improve our response capacity and we will win this war, God-willing.

At about 11am Khalid Khurrasani claimed that the attackers had killed over 250 people and were still attacking, that was the intended scale of the attack.

 

[Shot-Caller]

The LEAs are fully aware of the trust of our people, it is the wind beneath our wings and we won't be able to accomplish anything without it. That being said, I think this incident is being subjected to undue scrutiny. We are at a state of war and regrettable as it is, there will be times when we will also have to take a hit. The attack was inevitable but what is noteworthy here is that the response to the attack was effective, the terrorists were limited in the first 30m and were not allowed to reach their targets, which were the family accommodations.
The LEAs will constantly work to improve our response capacity and we will win this war, God-willing.

At about 11am Khalid Khurrasani claimed that the attackers had killed over 250 people and were still attacking, that was the intended scale of the attack.

I hope the response is going to be sharp and some decisive steps are taken as far as Afghanistan is concerned.