Survey: Most Israeli Jews would support apartheid regime in Israel

[INDIC]

I am sure when the shoe is on the other foot, the Arabs would have the same to say for the Jews. It is quite sad what has happened in that region.

All of us know how non-Muslims are treated in Saudi Arabia.

 

[Wright]

All of us know how non-Muslims are treated in Saudi Arabia.

And it is reasonable to assume a fair percentage of the indigenous population is non muslim.

 

[kalu_miah]

If you have democracy, you can get away with murder. The more perfect the democracy, the more you can get away with. That is why I urge Muslim countries and even Muslim communities living as minority communities in other countries to get organized and have as much democracy and even Occupy style direct democracy as possible.

Arab Spring is a good thing because of this reason, it is movement towards more democracy. So anyone who is standing on the way of more democracy should be removed from the scene by force, if they do not want to move out of the way on their own.

 

[INDIC]

And it is reasonable to assume a fair percentage of the indigenous population is non muslim.

So using same logic, do these people have right to complain in European countries because they are not indigenous.

 

[Wickerman]

All of us know how non-Muslims are treated in Saudi Arabia.

Indeed. Saudi Arabia has separate roads for Muslims and Non Muslims even though they dont face any existential threats. But oh no, that isnt a problem, only when its the evil Jews it is

Take a look:

 

[Wright]

So using same logic, do these people have right to complain in European countries because they are not indigenous.

Exactly. Cultures differ, we need to stop applying the European standards to the Middle East. Semitic peoples are generally very ethnoentric and there is nothing wrong with that. The Jews do not consider the Paliestinian people as native and vice versa.

The Paliestinians would have treated the Jews the same way as other Arabs treat the non native populations.

 

[kalu_miah]

Indeed. Saudi Arabia has separate roads for Muslims and Non Muslims even though they dont face any existential threats. But oh no, that isnt a problem, only when its the evil Jews it is

Take a look:

This was not true during Ottoman times afaik, I think it was introduced very recently.

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

It isn't religion, especially as Israel has such a secular society. Most Israelis are not very religiously observant Jews. It is an issue of demographics and the ever growing Arab-Israeli population. Israel can either be a "Jewish state" or a democracy; she can't be both. She has chosen to remain a Jewish state and so apartheid.

Recent reports suggest that Jewish population is growing in Israel faster now compared to the Arabs due to higher birth rates and rapid immigration of jews from other parts of the world .

 

[RFS_Br]

All of us know how non-Muslims are treated in Saudi Arabia.

Non-Muslims in Saudi Arabia are foreigners. They go there knowing what that would entail. In fact, not even the rights of Muslim migrant workers are well guarded. I've heard that even Indonesia, a Muslim country, has banned its citizens from working in Saudi Arabia. This has nothing to do with Israeli Arabs. Israeli Arabs aren't immigrants -- they belong in Palestine, arguably more than even Israeli Jews do. They didn't ask to be there, like migrants in Saudi Arabia -- they just happen to be there, because that's their land. They deserve at least as many rights as Jews there.

And may I remind people here that what goes on in Saudi Arabia has nothing to do with Israel's policies. There's no causal connection between Saudi Arabia's policies and Israel's. And that Israel's defenders have to resort to Saudi Arabia to make Israel look less bad, tells a lot about the soundness of the Middle East's soi-disant "only democracy".

 

[Developereo]

As expected, the Indian apologists are defending the Jewish racism.

 

[INDIC]

Non-Muslims in Saudi Arabia are foreigners. They go there knowing what that would entail. In fact, not even the rights of Muslim migrant workers are well guarded. I've heard that even Indonesia, a Muslim country, has banned its citizens from working in Saudi Arabia. This has nothing to do with Israeli Arabs. Israeli Arabs aren't immigrants -- they belong to Palestine, arguably more than even Israeli Jews do. They didn't ask to be there, like migrants in Saudi Arabia -- they just happen to be there, because that's their land. They deserve at least as many rights as Jews there.

And may I remind people here that what goes on in Saudi Arabia has nothing to do with Israel's policies. There's no causal connection between Saudi Arabia's policies and Israel's. And that Israel's defenders have to Saudi Arabia to make Israel look less bad, tells a lot about the soundness of the Middle East's soi-disant "only democracy".

My point is Middle Eastern countries has one of the worst track record of treating non-Muslims. Their TV programs is full of abusing Jews and Christians, so its sounds really strange when they talk about discrimination or apartheid. Regarding foreigner part, except for middle east, most of the countries respect the freedom of foreigners residing in their country. So, its sound funny when you talk about foreigners and at the same time complain in European countries.

 

[RFS_Br]

I was just pointing out Arabs are pretty racist themselves and routinely abuse their South Asian and South East Asian migrants.

I'm not talking about the Middle East. I'm talking about Israel and Palestine specifically, and the large majority of the Jewish community there descends, not from natives to the area, but from very recent immigrants. Bear in mind that only in the early 50s did Jews become a majority (and a narrow one at that) in historic Palestine. Palestinian natives included some Jews, it's true, but they were overwhelmingly non-Jewish (Muslim, Druze and Christian), and these natives are morally entitled to equal rights, their non-Jewishness notwithstanding.

Jews claim that they were exiled from that land. Chicken and egg.

Why should anyone even bother about that? Jews were forced into exile by the Romans, at a time there was no notion of international law. Jewish whining about Palestine shouldn't have been heard, specially because it would entail the persecution of Palestine's truly native inhabitants, who had nothing to do with the Jews' exodus to begin with. Tell me, would you agree with Canadian natives' claim (if there was one) to expel all Canadians of immigrant-descent -- or at least enough of them so the natives can become a majority again -- because that's their historic homeland, like Palestine supposedly is to Jews?

Libya and its Berbers, non Arabs in Sudan, Kurds in Iraq to name a few. . .

To name all you know, that's what you probably meant. And even in those cases, there's no officially coded policy of apartheid, but only old resentments tied to separatist tensions.

And of course Jews living in Arab nations before the creation of Israel, which is why most migrated to Israel from the other Middle Eastern states.

The large majority of Mizrahi Jews -- according to many Jewish scholars, like Avi Shlaim, Yehouda Shenhav, etc. -- left those lands for Israel because they wanted to, mostly due to economic issues and secondly to ethnic/religious nationalism. Persecution and discrimination played but a minor role in the exodus movement. It should be said that legal equality was mostly guaranteed. To give one example, Jews in the Magreb never came to experience the discrimination suffered by Jews in their colonial master (France) during the Vichy years, and this was only because Arab rulers (e.g., Mohammed V) shielded them and saw that Jews wouldn't be discriminated against, like France was demanding then.

Arabs have fought numerous wars with them as well. There is really not much Arabs can do except whine and complain about Israel and Iran.

What does war have to do with this? And Iran? Wha...? We're discussing the acceptability of apartheid in Israel's society, not geopolitical issues. Nice try in attempting to derail the topic. Can't say I haven't been warned before.

 

[Developereo]

We're discussing the acceptability of apartheid in Israel's society, not geopolitical issues. Nice try in attempting to derail the topic. Can't say I haven't been warned before.

They can't defend the Israeli racism, so all they can do is deflect the topic all over the place. Once again, Israel claims moral support in the West because it claims to represent Western values in the Middle East. The reality is just the opposite. They can justify it, deflect it, deny it, but it won't change the reality of what Israel represents.

It is no accident that Israel was the chief military supplier to the apartheid regime in South Africa and why Nelson Mandela called Arafat a "brother in arms" against apartheid.

 

[RFS_Br]

My point is Middle Eastern countries has one of the worst track record of treating non-Muslims. Their TV programs is full of abusing Jews and Christians, so its sounds really strange when they talk about discrimination or apartheid. Regarding foreigner part, except for middle east, most of the countries respect the freedom of foreigners residing in their country. So, its sound funny when you talk about foreigners and at the same time complain in European countries.

What Arab countries are that? You know, Arab countries are pretty different from one another, so I can't accept hurried generalizations about them. In some Arab countries, like Jordan and Syria, Christians enjoy far better standards of living than the Muslim majority. In Lebanon, Christian superiority in enforced by law: Christians have a right to half the seats of parliament, even though they're certainly less than 50% of the population (and things were even worse before the civil war). Palestinian Christians also exert disproportionate political clout. I think you can find Christians having hardships in Egypt, including discrimination, but in many Arab countries that's not the case. And not even in Egypt, by the way, can the Christian situation be described in the same terms as that of Palestinians and Israeli Arabs in Israel -- there's no apartheid in Egypt, no two-tiered system of legislation, no Christians being forced out of home to make room for Muslim settlements. And to be honest, I think religious minorities fare better in most Arab countries than in India.

As for cultural hostility to minorities on TV, I can only wonder what Israeli Christians would have to say of this:

 

[Developereo]

Arab countries

Don't take the bait. Israeli apologists love to deflect the topic from what's happening in Israel.