What's new

Surgical or no Surgical strike? a difficult way to agreed upon.

000_GM0CK.jpg

An Indian paramilitary trooper in Srinagar, Sept. 29. Tauseef Mustafa—AFP



THE URI RESPONSE AND MODI’S COMMITMENT TRAP.
In the intervening hours of Sept. 28 and 29, the Indian Army attempted shallow incursions at four points on Kashmir’s Line of Control.

At two points, they were detected before they could cross over, were fired upon, stopped, and thereafter the points settled into an exchange of small arms, light weapons, and mortar fire. At the two other points in the south, they came very close to the Line of Control and there was direct engagement. Units on the ground, dug into their defenses still, report direct engagement, with at least 14 Indian troops killed, while losing two noncommissioned officers to hostile mortar fire.

So far, that’s the information from Pakistan’s side. Officially, it has given no information on Indian casualties. The narrative is simple: the Indians opened fire and the Army responded effectively. In the coming days, we should expect more information.

Predictably, the 24/7 news cycle was hogged by this Indian attempt. India’s director-general of Military Operations, Lt. Gen. Ranbir Singh, and the spokesperson of the Ministry of External Affairs held a joint press conference in New Delhi—“joint” only to the extent that the spokesperson opened the presser and handed it over to Singh, who, after reading out a statement in English and Hindi, did not take any questions. That, however, did not prevent the Indian media, barring exceptions, to declare this a huge event, one that constituted a befitting response to the Uri attack and a paradigm shift, i.e., that the Modi government will not sit on its rear end while Pakistan continues its alleged terrorist attacks on India. The din of ‘celebrations’ since the presser is incredible, though not unpredictable.

What should one make of this? What did India achieve? This is what Pakistan should be concerned about. And this is precisely what is being ignored here, with focus only on an attempt that clearly failed in military terms.

There are two levels at which the current Indian government is playing: domestic and international. At home, Prime Minister Narendra Modi arrived on the scene with his broad chest, metaphor for a dynamic leader who could do what his predecessors, especially those from the Congress party, could not do. A man who has a tryst with destiny, he is to turn India into an economic and military giant. Then Kashmir erupted. It is now the 85th day of an uprising that refuses to go away despite terrible state repression. Relations with Pakistan, already strained, have spiraled. The icing on the cake was the Uri attack, a major setback for the Indian Army. Pro forma, Pakistan was declared complicit within hours of Uri. Modi’s constituency began talking war, even nuclear war. His political opposition hit back, pooh-poohing his chest. Something needed to be done, but what?

The dust and heat of mobilization circa 2001-2002 is a nonstarter. Aerial strikes are a desire which first needs pigs to fly. Missile strikes are a dangerous escalation because who can determine whether an incoming missile has a tactical or a strategic warhead?

Now, imagine yourself in the Situation Room with Modi and his team. There’s the option of covert war, which India is already waging in Balochistan and through the Afghan National Directorate of Security in Pakistan’s tribal areas. That can and will be ratcheted up. But the problem with covert war is that you can’t own up to it. You might even ‘avenge’ something, but if you declare it, you lose deniability. So, while that front remains hot, it is cold politics domestically. The terrible political question of what Modi has done to ‘punish’ Pakistan remains. This is a particularly nasty question in view of the 2017 polls in Uttar Pradesh.

You decide on a course of action that can be packaged and marketed to both the domestic audiences and the international interlocutors. That is where “surgical strikes” come in. As I noted, Singh’s copy doesn’t seem to have been drafted at the Army HQ or the Military Operations Directorate. It had a visible South Block stamp on it. “Surgical strikes” were conducted “along [not across] the Line of Control” on “terrorist launch pads.” The operation has ceased [after achieving its objective]. “I spoke with Pakistan’s [director-general of Military Operations] and informed them of the action taken by us [or words to that effect].”

Let’s deconstruct this narrative: it was not a military operation against the Pakistan Army but an antiterrorism operation against terrorists—this fits the Indian hand perfectly in the Western antiterrorism glove. It assures the West (read: the U.S.) that India has no intention of escalating with Pakistan while throwing in for good measure the ‘fact’ that this antiterrorism operation was conducted on territory controlled by Pakistan. Corollary: Pakistan supports and encourages terrorism from its soil against India and is in clear violation of its 2004 commitment. This last bit was clearly spelled out in Singh’s statement.

The Singh statement, by mentioning Uri, strengthened India’s original position—also stated by its foreign minister, Sushma Swaraj, at the U.N. General Assembly—that Kashmir is troubled because of Pakistan. In doing this, it takes the gaze away from the Kashmiris’ right to self-determination as well as the state repression by India to focusing the issue as an India-Pakistan problem and one that is underpinned by Pakistan’s alleged sponsorship of terrorism.

It should be evident that Singh gave Modi a winner. The statement threw in the term “surgical strikes” and balanced it with “along the LOC.” In a charged partisan atmosphere, with a media waiting to jump on just about anything, few people have the time or the inclination for nuances. The Indian Army also knew that what it did will not be escalated by Pakistan because the latter has no immediate reason to do so. An action, desiring shallow incursions, which was effectively stopped in its tracks doesn’t need to be escalated.

That said, the trend cannot entirely be predicted. The mood can be read two ways: satisfied or craving for more. Going by the cacophony in India, it seems to have settled for more. That creates a worse commitment trap than the one from which Modi has tried to extricate himself.

Meanwhile, Pakistan has to read the situation at all levels, not just at the level of any military response. The central point of Islamabad’s strategy should be to bring back into sharp salience the Kashmiris and their struggle. This is precisely what tends to get lost when the issue is pushed back because of heightened India-Pakistan tensions. How to go about that requires new thinking.

Haider is editor of national-security affairs at Capital TV. He was a Ford Scholar at the Program in Arms Control, Disarmament and International Security at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, and a visiting fellow at the Brookings Institution, Washington, D.C. He tweets @ejazhaider

http://newsweekpakistan.com/after-the-surgical-strikes/
Now that Indians have exhausted their ultimate option of attacking Pakistan Army directly and have gotten a bloody nose in response, it is the high time that Pakistan gets on a counter offence to bring peace and sanity in the region. Pakistan needs to chart and execute a proactive policy (covering both the diplomatic and military fronts) keeping in mind the Indian stubborn nature and bigotry. Indians don't understand just the diplomatic language. They are utterly liars, rogue in behavior (they would cancel international treaties without caring about the implications), and deceptive in nature. Their history is a wetness on the fact that the only language that Indians understand is force. They have turned rogue UN resolutions only after realizing that Pakistan is militarily unable to force them to comply with these resolutions that their PM Nehru has promised so solemnly. Now that Indians find them incapable to control the situation in occupied J&K by force, thanks to the unparalleled determination and struggle of the people of J&K, it is the time for Pakistan to evaluate its options to turn the heat on the occupying Indian troops in J&K. I think Pakistan needs to follow a policy with the following policy objectives.
1. Pakistan is a legitimate party of Kashmir dispute in the UN resolutions. If one party chooses to turn rogue on its commitments, other parties are rightful in perusing the means to force the rogue party fall in line. So, attacking the occupying Indian troops and their installations to end their illegal occupation is a legitimate and just cause. Pakistan needs to turn the heat further on under Indian butts for them to feel the taste of the pain that so far only the people of occupied Kashmir have been suffering from. Pakistan needs to attack Indian military centers and head quarters in the occupied land in collaboration with the people of the occupied land.
2, It is the time that Pakistan overtly support the people of Kashmir with weapons, training, and support (in terms of intelligence, logistics, planning, target choosing, and execution of strikes). There must be an end to the Indian oppression where they murder unarmed Kashmiri youth on daily basis in streets of occupied towns and cities. Keep in mind that the world community will not act against Indian massacre of Kashmiri youth just for the sake of humanity. You have to bring Indians to their knees first to beg for peace. The international community will then act for the sake of saving the world peace.
3. Indians for sure will cry and complain to the international community labeling these attacks on their troops in occupied J&K as terrorism. It is the responsibility of Pakistan's diplomatic corps to counter that false propaganda. The Indian rogueness regarding the UN resolutions and other international treaties must be highlighted to the civilized world. Specifically, Pakistan needs to make strong case that killing unarmed civilian protesters to sustain illegal Indian occupation is terrorism. Struggling and fighting for the just cause of Kashmiris cannot be labeled as terrorism and used as a tool for depriving the people of occupied J&K of their right of self determination as promised to them by the world community at the UN.
4. The solution of a just and fair water distribution is possible only when Indians stop stealing water from the rivers flowing through occupied J&K. These are not Indian rivers. The people of Kashmir must be in control of that water. That can only be achieved when Indians are forced to end their illegal occupation of the state. We have seen how Indians have used the Indus water treaty to blackmail Pakistan and destroy its economy. Pakistan has a strong case on the rogue and exploitive behavior. This Indian blackmail will end only when Indians are kicked out of the occupied J&K.

If Pakistan goes on such a proactive policy, Indians will try to bluff Pakistan and blackmail international community by extending the hostilities to the recognized international border between the two countries. Pakistan can call their bluff without any fear. Indian don't have the required wherewithal to launch an actual attack and they know well what will happen if they extended war theater to recognized international border.
 
Only if indians give a location...as pakistani media is on LOC they can go to that site and settle this....

Why none of sites being disclosed??
 
Now that Indians have exhausted their ultimate option of attacking Pakistan Army directly and have gotten a bloody nose in response, it is the high time that Pakistan gets on a counter offence to bring peace and sanity in the region. Pakistan needs to chart and execute a proactive policy (covering both the diplomatic and military fronts) keeping in mind the Indian stubborn nature and bigotry. Indians don't understand just the diplomatic language. They are utterly liars, rogue in behavior (they would cancel international treaties without caring about the implications), and deceptive in nature. Their history is a wetness on the fact that the only language that Indians understand is force. They have turned rogue UN resolutions only after realizing that Pakistan is militarily unable to force them to comply with these resolutions that their PM Nehru has promised so solemnly. Now that Indians find them incapable to control the situation in occupied J&K by force, thanks to the unparalleled determination and struggle of the people of J&K, it is the time for Pakistan to evaluate its options to turn the heat on the occupying Indian troops in J&K. I think Pakistan needs to follow a policy with the following policy objectives.
1. Pakistan is a legitimate party of Kashmir dispute in the UN resolutions. If one party chooses to turn rogue on its commitments, other parties are rightful in perusing the means to force the rogue party fall in line. So, attacking the occupying Indian troops and their installations to end their illegal occupation is a legitimate and just cause. Pakistan needs to turn the heat further on under Indian butts for them to feel the taste of the pain that so far only the people of occupied Kashmir have been suffering from. Pakistan needs to attack Indian military centers and head quarters in the occupied land in collaboration with the people of the occupied land.
2, It is the time that Pakistan overtly support the people of Kashmir with weapons, training, and support (in terms of intelligence, logistics, planning, target choosing, and execution of strikes). There must be an end to the Indian oppression where they murder unarmed Kashmiri youth on daily basis in streets of occupied towns and cities. Keep in mind that the world community will not act against Indian massacre of Kashmiri youth just for the sake of humanity. You have to bring Indians to their knees first to beg for peace. The international community will then act for the sake of saving the world peace.
3. Indians for sure will cry and complain to the international community labeling these attacks on their troops in occupied J&K as terrorism. It is the responsibility of Pakistan's diplomatic corps to counter that false propaganda. The Indian rogueness regarding the UN resolutions and other international treaties must be highlighted to the civilized world. Specifically, Pakistan needs to make strong case that killing unarmed civilian protesters to sustain illegal Indian occupation is terrorism. Struggling and fighting for the just cause of Kashmiris cannot be labeled as terrorism and used as a tool for depriving the people of occupied J&K of their right of self determination as promised to them by the world community at the UN.
4. The solution of a just and fair water distribution is possible only when Indians stop stealing water from the rivers flowing through occupied J&K. These are not Indian rivers. The people of Kashmir must be in control of that water. That can only be achieved when Indians are forced to end their illegal occupation of the state. We have seen how Indians have used the Indus water treaty to blackmail Pakistan and destroy its economy. Pakistan has a strong case on the rogue and exploitive behavior. This Indian blackmail will end only when Indians are kicked out of the occupied J&K.

If Pakistan goes on such a proactive policy, Indians will try to bluff Pakistan and blackmail international community by extending the hostilities to the recognized international border between the two countries. Pakistan can call their bluff without any fear. Indian don't have the required wherewithal to launch an actual attack and they know well what will happen if they extended war theater to recognized international border.
Add one more option of carrying out surgical strike and take out few Indian Soldiers
 
Meanwhile, in the real world:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/consequences-of-pakistani-terrorism-1475189497#livefyre-comment
Consequences of Pakistani Terrorism
Raids signal that India won’t tolerate more attacks in Kashmir.

India’s doctrine of “strategic restraint” toward Pakistan was tested again Wednesday, after the Indian Army responded to a Sept. 18 attack against an Indian base that killed 19 soldiers by conducting raids against terrorist facilities just inside Pakistan-controlled Kashmir. Islamabad has addressed the incidents with its usual mix of bluster and denial, but if it means to prevent an escalation of violence it needs to shut down the terrorist groups it continues to support.

That should start with Jaish-e-Mohammad (Army of Mohammed) and Lashkar-e-Taiba (Army of the Pure), two major jihadist groups that operate openly in Pakistan and are prime suspects in these attacks. Both groups are supported by its military despite being on United Nations lists of terrorist organizations. Last month the U.S. Defense Department blocked $300 million in reimbursements to Pakistan because of its continuing tolerance of the Haqqani Network that operates in Pakistan and Afghanistan.

The Pakistani government insists it had nothing to do with the attack on Uri, as well as with a similar attack in Pathankot in January that killed another seven Indian soldiers. Pakistan’s military goes so far as to deny the raids took place and blamed India for an unprovoked artillery attack across the Line of Control that killed two Pakistani soldiers. Defense Minister Khawaja Muhammad Asif even accused India of staging the Uri attack and repeated past threats to use tactical nuclear weapons.

But as Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi noted in a speech on Sunday, so far this year the Indian Army has thwarted 17 attempts by terrorists to cross the border from Pakistan, killing 110 of them. These incursions often occur under the cover of Pakistani artillery fire. New Delhi also presented evidence Tuesday that the Uri attackers crossed the border from the Pakistani city of Muzaffarabad. Two guides who assisted the infiltrators have been detained.

Mr. Modi has consistently offered closer economic and diplomatic ties to Pakistan as long as it stops supporting terrorism. Pakistan’s democratic government has also long been threatened by the very jihadist groups it helped unleash, particularly the Taliban. And Pakistan increasingly risks becoming a pariah state. Even China, Pakistan’s “all-weather friend” as both countries put it, will have limited patience if Islamic extremism spreads into its Muslim-majority northwest.

Pakistan remains trapped by a national identity based on fomenting religious-based insurgencies in Kashmir. The country needs a new vision centered on improving the lives of its people, and there is no shortage of potentially willing hands, including Mr. Modi’s, to help it move in that direction. What’s needed is political courage in Islamabad, before the crisis in Kashmir escalates.
 
SAARC meeting canceled, afganistan, bangladesh, india, bhutan and srilanka boycott the meeting because of pakistani terror policy. Oh god pakistan isolated.
No body supporting pakistan on the surgical strike done by india in pak occupied kashmir and most of the countries (almost all major powers) supporting indian stance. Oh god pakistan isolated.
India done a surgical strike against pakistan and pakistani military and government still in the deniel mode. Oh god pakistan isolated.
:lol::lol: we are doomed first we were isolated now we are attackd by keyboard hindu warriors with the mighty afghans, and bangalis:laughcry:
 
Only if indians give a location...as pakistani media is on LOC they can go to that site and settle this....

Why none of sites being disclosed??
That location was also stealth.
 
Also in the real world:

WASHINGTON – Today U.S. Senators John Cornyn (R-TX) and Mark Warner (D-VA), co-chairs of the Senate India Caucus, sent a letter to Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi to express their support and condolences in the wake of the terrorist attacks in Uri, India last weekend that killed 18 Indian soldiers.

“We would like to express our deep condolences to you, the soldiers who were injured in this heinous attack, and the families of those who were killed. We stand with you and the people of India as we fight the global scourge of terrorists who seek to destroy our way of life and our values and threaten our democratic societies,” wrote Sens. Cornyn and Warner.

“The continued threat of terrorism that both India and the United States face highlights the critical need to ensure that we continue to expand U.S.-India bilateral defense, intelligence and counterterrorism cooperation.”

Text of the letter is below.

September 29, 2016

Dear Prime Minister Modi:


As co-chairs of the Senate India Caucus, we write to express our support for India and to strongly condemn the recent terrorist attack at the army base near Uri in Jammu and Kashmir. We would like to express our deep condolences to you, the soldiers who were injured in this heinous attack, and the families of those who were killed. We stand with you and the people of India as we fight the global scourge of terrorists who seek to destroy our way of life and our values and threaten our democratic societies.


We are greatly concerned about initial indications that the perpetrators of this attack were Pakistani and that the attack emanated from Pakistan. If true, this attack would be just the latest in a series of deadly attacks in India conducted by Pakistan-based terrorist groups. We call on the Government of Pakistan to cooperate fully and transparently in this investigation and prosecute any individuals within its territory that participated in this horrendous attack.


Pakistan’s possible involvement in this attack underscores our broader concern about Pakistan’s use of terrorism as a pillar of its foreign policies toward Afghanistan and India. As many credible experts have noted, such groups as the Haqqani network, Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan, Lashkar-e-Taiba, and Jaish-e-Mohammad still operate freely in Pakistan, launching attacks not only on India but also on U.S. personnel and interests in Afghanistan. That such terrorist groups continue to operate within Pakistan is unacceptable, and we will work within Congress to pressure Pakistan to end any association with these terrorist groups targeting India, put a stop to their cross-border incursions, and take active and immediate steps to reign in homegrown terrorists


The continued threat of terrorism that both India and the United States face highlights the critical need to ensure that we continue to expand U.S.-India bilateral defense, intelligence and counterterrorism cooperation. We welcome the declaration of India as a major defense partner, last year’s signing of the Defense Framework Agreement, and continued deepening of the Defense Technology and Trade Initiative. Similarly, we are pleased by the finalization of an arrangement to facilitate the sharing of terrorist screening information and the progress made by the U.S.-India Counterterrorism Joint Working Group and the Homeland Security Dialogue. We will continue to support these and other initiatives that will increase U.S. partnership with India against terrorism.


Again, we extend our condolences to India after the losses at Uri. Please know that the Senate India Caucus stands with you, and that we will not allow terrorists to sway our shared commitment to fostering greater peace and promoting democracy in the region.


https://www.cornyn.senate.gov/conte...-attack-india-send-condolences-prime-minister

https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/15...akistan-to-tackle-anti-India-terrorist-groups
 
Well I mentioned it India still doesn't want to climb the escalation ladder but what a decade or so from now? India is pumping $100 billion in it's armed forces and in a decade or so will be fully prepare to fight a war under the nuclear threshold thus my argument is then India will be willing to strike across LOC on terrorists at will, what will be Pakistan's response?

When even the most developed world is avoiding a war why India wants to go for a war even in a decade or so.

Can you define "across LoC" ? which areas are included in this phrase ?
 
if it had been a failed mission.. pakistan would have been first to announce failed Indian strike.. bringing all kinds of media into site .. we would have seen pakistani press conf ... photos of guns.. ammos.. even dead bodies.. but guess what nothing.. instead pakistan first denies then goes to UN informing about surgical strikes. pakistan is in deep dilemma..


pls kindly me whos laughing? world ? dude whole wolrd is silent on indias strike.. not a word came from any country opposing Indias military action.. not even from your higher than mountain.. deeper than ocean friend China.. all silent..

Unlike what you think, Pakistan has chosen to not show bodies on TV. It was a successful surgical strike or infiltration across the LOC, India WOULD HAVE BEEN FIRST to show the videos and evidence, which are yet to come out of editing of whatever video did come back. The media in India is truly free, and despite the flag waving and anti-Pakistan rhetoric, the media will shred the DGMO and Indian govt to pieces when they see bogus evidence. Hence the media blackout from any any tangible evidence and only stories, conjecture, and graphics.

Ref. Kargil, where the first debrief showed the LGBs hitting the bunkers that Indian infantry was not able to access without softening them.
 
Last edited:
When even the most developed world is avoiding a war why India wants to go for a war even in a decade or so.

Can you define "across LoC" ? which areas are included in this phrase ?

The developed world destroyed a handful of countries just because of one terrorist attack (agreed that attack was something) on them, also by across LOC I meant the so-called launch pads and camps the ones which India is claiming to have hit now
 
The developed world destroyed a handful of countries just because of one terrorist attack (agreed that attack was something) on them, also by across LOC I meant the so-called launch pads and camps the ones which India is claiming to have hit now

:what: India cannot afford the scale of cost of those corporate attacks of the developed world so you cannot copy them period.

as for the bold part so for shelling across LoC India needs to pump more money for weapons for a decade or two. what a waste
 
They don't have any proof nor need any. As long as their people completely believe them like cattle it is mission accomplished for them. Now they're just trying to provoke Pakistan.
 
India getting support at UN(urine) over surgical strikes


:lol::lol: we are doomed first we were isolated now we are attackd by keyboard hindu warriors with the mighty afghans, and bangalis:laughcry:

Yes, we understand your pain. It clearly shows. Now waiting for your next posts on poverty to prove that their were no surgical strikes.
 
Yes, we understand your pain. It clearly shows. Now waiting for your next posts on poverty to prove that their were no surgical strikes.
i think indian army chief wanted to tell you, SIR-Ji-KAL strike, and since there are more than 1 billion idiots accros the border, they taugh it's surgical strike :lol: now we have 2 of yours monkeys, getting raped day and night :laughcry:
 

Latest posts

Back
Top Bottom