Sukhoi PAK-FA / FGFA: Updates,News & Discussions

[Papa Dragon]

HAL strongly bats for FGFA project with Russia

State-run aerospace behemoth Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) today strongly pitched for going ahead with the fifth-generation fighter jet project with Russia, though the Indian Air Force is understood to have reservations over it.

HAL Chairman and Managing Director T Suvarna Raju said the multi-billion dollar co-development project with Russia will be an opportunity as no country has ever offered such critical technology to India.

"We are still hopeful. It is an opportunity for the industry as well as for the country. This is an opportunity for us to go in for this kind of (high) technology which has not been offered to us by any other country (except Russia)," he said.

According to official sources, the IAF is not very keen to pursue the project in view of the high cost.

Asked about IAF's reservations about the project, Raju did not give a direct reply and insisted that it would help India's aerospace sector to a great extent.

"The impact of the project will be very positive. FGFA (Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft) is my dream, I am hopeful about it," Raju told reporters on the sidelines of an event.

He said it will take three years for the first FGFA to fly from the day the government gives the go ahead to the project.

A high-level committee set up by the government to examine various aspects of the project has recently submitted its report and the defence ministry is likely to take a call on it soon.

In 2007, India and Russia had inked an inter-governmental pact for the FGFA project.

In December 2010, India had agreed to pay USD 295 million (Rs 1,897 crore) towards the preliminary design of the fighter, which is called in India as the 'Perspective Multi- role Fighter'.

However, the negotiations faced various hurdles in the subsequent years.

In February last year, India and Russia revived talks on the project after a clearance from the then Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar.

Raju also said that HAL was looking at utilising the Sukhoi manufacturing facility for carrying out maintenance of the fleet as well as there is no future order for the jet.

On the Indo-Russian joint venture to produce 200 Kamov light weight multi-role military helicopters, he said things are moving fast and that a request for quotation (RFQ) is likely to be issued by the government soon.

In October last year, India and Russia had finalised a broad agreement for a joint venture between HAL and two Russian defence majors.

India is procuring Kamov choppers to replace its ageing Cheetah and Chetak helicopters.

Sixty Kamov-226T helicopters will be supplied to India in fly-away condition, while 140 will be manufactured in India.

http://www.defencenews.in/article/HAL-strongly-bats-for-FGFA-project-with-Russia-444077

https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...-project-with-russia/articleshow/61189233.cms

 

[leapx]

https://iz.ru/631483/video/istrebitel-piatogo-pokoleniia-poluchil-nazvanie-su-57

Su-57 fire R-77 from IWB？

 

[Frank Martin]

Russia’s latest fighter aircraft flew on 5 December for the first time with the NPO Saturn “Product 30” engine, which will be the production standard for the Sukhoi Su-57.

Sukhoi has built and flown nine flight test prototypes of the Su-57 fighter powered by NPO Saturn Product 117 engines, which are derived from the AL-41F-1S afterburning turbofans developed for the Su-35.

But the Russian air force plans to replace the Product 117 in series production starting in 2020 with the Product 30 engines, possibly featuring a new engine core of which few details are known.

Russian government officials have said the Product 30 will provide more thrust and fuel efficiency, with reduced weight and maintenance requirements.

The 5 December test flight by Sukhoi chief test pilot Sergei Bogdan from the Gromov flight test centre at Zhukovsky AB lasted 17min, according to Russia’s Ministry for Industry and Trade.

Photos and video of the flight shows the Product 30 installed in the No. 1, or port-side, engine position, with a Product 117 engine remaining on the starboard side. The Product 30 features a serrated engine nozzle, compared to the flat nozzle on the Product 117.

The flight test was conducted by the second Su-57 aircraft prototype, also known as T-50-2.

"This is proof of the high potential of Russian aircraft building, capable of creating highly intelligent advanced systems," says Russian Industry and Trade minister Denis Manturov.

The Su-57 is expected to enter service as Russia’s first so-called fifth-generation fighter after the end of this decade, featuring some stealth technology, along with internal weapons bays and advanced sensors, including active electronically scanned array (AESA) radars and infrared search and track cameras.

Government testing of the Su-57 prototypes is nearing the end of the first stage, according to the Ministry of Industry and Trade.

The Putin government is still assembling the next multi-year state armaments plan, which will decide the timing and the number of Su-57s purchased through 2027. But the Ministry of Industry and Trade still the current plan remains on track, with the Su-57 becoming Sukhoi’s largest military product by 2020.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/a...irst-su-57-fitted-with-new-product-30-443899/

 

[ptldM3]

Higher resolution close up of new engine.

 

[ptldM3]

 

[araberuni7]

India withdraws from FGFA project, leaving Russia to go it alone
http://www.janes.com/article/79457/india-withdraws-from-fgfa-project-leaving-russia-to-go-it-alone
Key Points

• India has pulled out of its 11-year collaborative programme with Russia to build a Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft
• The decision has ramifications for both the IAF and the Russian aerospace industry

The Indian Air Force (IAF) has shelved its 11-year old collaborative Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) programme with Russia following enduring differences over its developmental cost and technological capabilities.

Senior Indian officials, including National Security Adviser Ajit Doval and Defence Secretary Sanjay Mitra, recently informed a visiting Russian ministerial delegation that India was withdrawing from the programme, official sources told Jane’s on 20 April. A Russian Sukhoi Su-57 multirole fighter during an aerial display at the Forsazh aviation festival in December 2017. India’s participation in the FGFA project, which was based on the Su-57, has gone belly up. (Sergei Bobylev\TASS)

The Indian officials are believed to have stated that the IAF could, at a later date, ‘revisit’ the FGFA project or alternatively acquire the fully developed platform once it had been inducted into the Russian Air Force, but did not elaborate.

Industry officials said the FGFA project, in which India’s state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) was the lead developmental agency, also did not feature in talks during Defence Minister Nirmala Sitharaman’s visit to Moscow in early April.

“The FGFA project had become an instance of too little, too late,” said military analyst and retired air marshal V K Bhatia. To pursue it any longer would not have served the IAF interests in any way as it struggles to make up fast-depleting fighter numbers, he added.

The IAF believes that the Sukhoi Su-57 (T-50 PAK-FA) fighter, which India’s Ministry of Defence (MoD) designated the Perspective Multi-Role Fighter, does not meet its requirements for stealth, combat avionics, radars and sensors. Seven FGFA prototypes are currently undergoing flight-testing in Russia, but for now there is no indication as to when the platform is likely to enter series production.

 

[Flynn Swagmire]

SU-57 is a 5th Generation fighter jet with ~20 billions of R&D spending. Seems like indians expected an invisible fighter jet from Russians...

 

[Broccoli]

SU-57 is a 5th Generation fighter jet with ~20 billions of R&D spending. Seems like indians expected an invisible fighter jet from Russians...

Most estimates I have seen about Su-57 R&D spending give figure of 8-10 billion. That's less than what Swedes have used for their Gripen project! You don't get proper 5th gen fighter with that money.

 

[Project 4202]

Most estimates I have seen about Su-57 R&D spending give figure of 8-10 billion. That's less than what Swedes have used for their Gripen project! You don't get proper 5th gen fighter with that money.

That's only for the first phase, the second phase will cost at least another 5 billion, and cost of labor is also cheaper in Russia, as for Indians parting ways, if true then its their loss, when they buy ready made Su-57 in future, any TOT they will be getting will be much less than what we offering now.

 

[Skull and Bones]

That's only for the first phase, the second phase will cost at least another 5 billion, and cost of labor is also cheaper in Russia, as for Indians parting ways, if true then its their loss, when they buy ready made Su-57 in future, any TOT they will be getting will be much less than what we offering now.

Russia denied Indian pilots to access Su-57.

 

[PurpleStone]

Russia denied Indian pilots to access Su-57.

The real reason is this

Sources close to the Pentagon say India would not be sold the F-35 as long as it is partnering Russia in the FGFA co-development project. That is because Washington would guard against the leakage of F-35 technology into the FGFA.

Modi succumbed to US pressure.

 

[araberuni7]

India is not the 1960s India both financially and politically. Now India has access to global military technology. So why is sticking to a glorified Su-35 under the hood of Su-57. Look at the procurement pattern of India. Do you think IAF care of Russian junk when they can get their hands on high tech radar, electronics, avionics and software. IAF has rigorous vetting process. I am sure they have done due diligence and booted Su-57 because its not a fifth-gen fighter but a fifth-gen in making.

 

[IblinI]

India is not the 1960s India both financially and politically. Now India has access to global military technology. So why is sticking to a glorified Su-35 under the hood of Su-57. Look at the procurement pattern of India. Do you think IAF care of Russian junk when they can get their hands on high tech radar, electronics, avionics and software. IAF has rigorous vetting process. I am sure they have done due diligence and booted Su-57 because its not a fifth-gen fighter but a fifth-gen in making.

What other option do they have,F35? Get in the line and wait for more than ten years first.

 

[ejaz007]

$8.63-billion advanced fighter aircraft project with Russia put on ice
NSA Doval tells Russian delegation that India shelving $8.63 billion deal
Ajai Shukla | New Delhi Last Updated at April 20, 2018 06:22 IST



Indigenisation bluesCongress, BJP trade charges over defence dealsGovt begins process to procure 110 fighter jets for IAF for $9-13 bnWhy doesn't media question PM Modi on Rafale fighter jet deal: Rahul GandhiNavy to consider new ship-borne Kamov-226T helicopters
The proposal for India and Russia to jointly develop an advanced fighter — the eponymous Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) — has been formally buried. Business Standard has learnt that National Security Advisor Ajit Doval conveyed the decision to a Russian ministerial delegation at a “Defence Acquisition Meeting” in end-February.

Doval and Defence Secretary Sanjay Mitra, who attended the meeting, asked the Russians to proceed alone with developing their fifth-generation fighter. They said India might possibly join the project later, or buy the fully developed fighter outright, after it entered service with the Russian Air Force.

New Delhi and Moscow have discussed the FGFA since 2007, when they agreed that Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL) would partner Russia’s Sukhoi Design Bureau (Sukhoi) in developing and manufacturing the fighter. In 2010, Sukhoi flew the fighter, called Perspektivny Aviatsionny Kompleks Frontovoy Aviatsii, or “Prospective Airborne Complex of Frontline Aviation” (PAK-FA). Seven prototypes are currently in flight-testing.

Russia said the PAK-FA met its needs, but the India Air Force (IAF) wanted a better fighter. So HAL and Sukhoi negotiated an $8.63-billion deal to improve the PAK-FA with the IAF’s requirements of stealth (near-invisibility to radar), super-cruise (supersonic cruising speed), networking (real-time digital links with other battlefield systems) and airborne radar with world-beating range. In all, the IAF demanded some 50 improvements to the PAK-FA, including 360-degree radar and more powerful engines.

Defence ministry sources who played a direct role in negotiations with Russia say much of this money was earmarked for Indian production facilities for manufacturing 127 FGFAs, and for India’s work share in developing advanced avionics for the fighter. It also included the cost of four PAK-FA prototypes for IAF test pilots to fly.

Now, the IAF has backed away from the FGFA because it argues the PAK-FA — which Sukhoi has been test-flying since January 2010 — is not stealthy enough for a fifth-generation combat aircraft.

Aerospace analysts who support the PAK-FA reject this argument. They point out that the US Air Force F-22 Raptor, was built with an extraordinary degree of stealth, but that proved to be counterproductive, since it resulted in high maintenance and life-cycle costs. Burned by that emphasis on stealth alone, US designers de-emphasised stealth while building their latest fifth-generation fighter, the F-35 Lightning II. Instead, they focused on building its combat edge through better sensors, highly networked avionics and superior long-range weapons.

The cancellation of the FGFA project has far-reaching implications for the IAF, for which this was once its high-tech future fighter. United Progressive Alliance (UPA) defence minister AK Antony had ruled out buying the F-35 Lightning II, arguing that India would have the FGFA to meet its fifth-generation fighter needs.

Indian aerospace designers also cited the FGFA experience as essential learning for developing the indigenous fifth generation Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA), which the Defence R&D Organisation (DRDO) is pursuing.

Now, the FGFA’s burial sets the stage for the IAF to eventually acquire the F-35 Lightning II, which comes in air force as well as naval variants. Indian military aviation, once overwhelmingly dependent upon Russian fighters, helicopters and transport aircraft, has steadily increased its purchases from America. On Tuesday, appearing before a US Senate panel for his confirmation hearings, Admiral Philip Davidson — nominated as the top US military commander in the Indo-Pacific, said the US should aspire to “break down” India’s historical dependence upon Russia.

The IAF has been split down the middle on the FGFA. Broadly, flying branch officers of the “French school”– whose careers have centred on the Mirage and Jaguar fighters — have tended to oppose the FGFA. Meanwhile, officers from the “Russian school”, their careers grounded in the MiG and Sukhoi fleet, have supported the FGFA.

Opponents of the FGFA have even argued that the project would duplicate and hinder the indigenous AMCA project. However, last July, an experts group headed by Air Marshal (Retired) S Varthaman, set up to consider this question, ruled that there were no conflict lines between the FGFA and AMCA. It stated that the technological expertise that would be gained from working with Russian experts would benefit the AMCA project.

In co-developing the FGFA, HAL was expected to deploy its experience in working with composite materials, which were to replace many of the metal fabricated panels on the PAK-FA. India was also expected to participate in designing the 360-degree active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar. In addition, the experience of flight-testing the Tejas Light Combat Aircraft would be refined by flight-testing a heavier, more complex fighter.

These challenges were expected to imbue Indian engineers with genuine design skills, of a far higher magnitude than the lessons learnt from licensed manufacture.

In addition, the FGFA’s foreclosure means the loss of $295 million that India sunk into its “preliminary design phase” between 2010 and 2013.

First Published: Fri, April 20 2018. 06:50 IST

http://www.business-standard.com/ar...ct-with-russia-put-on-ice-118042000029_1.html

 

[araberuni7]

What other option do they have,F35? Get in the line and wait for more than ten years first.

India media reported that IAF was briefed on classified information of F-35 by Lockheed Marrin. Likewise @PurpleStone said India cannot fly F-35 until FGFA is dead. USA is opening up F-35 to friendly nations. Saudi Arabia, Qatar, UAE and India are prime target markets. It's coming!!