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Sukhoi PAK-FA / FGFA: Updates,News & Discussions

A cash-starved Russia, which is now cranking up its arms sales to Pakistan much to India's discomfiture, hopes Modi's visit will break the logjam on the FGFA. India, in turn, wants Russia to "compress" the delivery timeframe to around 36 months from the original 94 months, as was first reported by TOI.


All this comes in the backdrop of the Modi government scrapping the deadlocked $20 billion MMRCA (medium multi-role combat aircraft) project with France for 126 Rafale fighters (108 of which were to be made in India) earlier this year. Instead, the Modi-Hollande summit in April decided that India would buy 36 Rafales in a direct acquisition deal with France.

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Why such desperation Sir, Is there any immediate threat to India ? FGFA will take its time for the development. Russia is cash starved but is also facing much more pressure and heat after whats is happening in Ukeraine Crisis so she have more reason than us for quick development of PAK FA. If you are talking of the western threat from our neighbour than the upgradation program of Mirrage 2000H to 2009 std, Darlin 3, and Mig 29UPG is more than enough for the time being.

36 Rafale is comming in the fly away condition from the france and this will give the time for the Dassault for making deals for its indian local companies for the components. Hal will be the prime contractor to assemble the rest from the kits. Its 189 not 126 jets that is involved and scrapping the deal means that Indian govt is making the deal with G-G deal i.e government to government deal thus excluding all third parties and india could bargain with the price which should be lower than the bidding. All the speculated deals involving the deadlock or setback by the Dassault is by product of our desi gernalist with great defence knowledge and with the hunger for the news for their bellies and the news channels.
 
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had anybody played Drone Ops:first strike game for mobile.
its very easy to kill the PAK FA with the MQ-9 in dog fight.
 
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Old articles i found on the net don't take it seriously

Comparison: Raptor killer? (PAK-FA Vs F-22)


It has been suggested that for the PAK-FA to be successful it does not need to exceed the F-22, merely come close enough to shift popular perception of the F-22’s unrivaled dominance of the 5th Generation stage. There will always be die-hard proponents of both planes and any definitive analysis is certainly premature. The following observations should be taken within the context of amateur analysis based on scant reliable information. I think it makes little sense to dive into details, any meaningful comparison must remain high-level.

Stealth: There can be no serious doubt that the PAK-FA is a stealth aircraft; stealth shaping is a compromise and the T-50 clearly shows design decisions which make no sense if stealth was not the aim. Frontal aspect stealth is likely very good. The rear of the engine nacelles has more questionable stealth however and suggests a focus on frontal aspect stealth with rear aspect-stealth clearly being a feature but less-so than F-22. Alternatively the engine nacelles may be remodeled when the production standard engine is introduced (the prototype likely flew with interim Saturn 117S engines to reduce risk). PAK-FA clearly uses shaping to deflect radar waves, and presumably will be painted in a RAM paint. It may also employ ‘Plasma stealth’, particularly within radomes. Although the cockpit canopy is sloped as per the F-22s (ie not ‘bubble’), it is not clear if it is radar reflecting like the F-22’s, and does not have the brown tinge of gold-lined cockpits. Radomes and cockpit canopies are said to be amongst the most difficult parts of an aircraft to make stealthy and it may be that this technology is proving more difficult to develop.

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Both aircraft are credited with super-cruise, the ability to fly at supersonic speeds without using afterburner, and thus increasing range and reducing heat signatures compared to other fighters at equivalent speeds.

Air-Air Weapons: Russia has unveiled the RVV-SD missile, an updated version of the AA-12 Adder missile with folding fins, as the main missile of the aircraft. Although the PAK-FA’s weapons bays can likely carry larger missiles, they are probably not large enough for the massive KS-172 (RVV-L) weapon which has an expected range of about 400km. Reports indicate that this missile, or one with similar performamce, can be carried externally. The ramjet powered version of the AA-12 Adder promoted in the 1990s seems to have been dropped. The RVV-SD is likely a good match for the latest AMRAAM variants, though both may be eclipsed by the ramjet powered long range Meteor missile which will be fielded on ‘Eurocanards’ like the Gripen and Typhoon by the time PAK-FA enters service.

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The above comparison with the F-22 shows the larger main weapons bays of the PAK-FA (red). The F-22 can carry 6 AMRAAM missiles in the main bay. Reports indicate that the PAK-FA can carry 8 equivalent AA-12 (RVV-SD) missiles, giving it a 2 missile advantage. The side bays (orange) are of similar capacity with both aircraft carrying just one short-range missile per bay. For the PAK-FA the two smaller weapons bays are probably for the RVV-MD version of the AA-11 Archer short range missile. The RVV-MD is probably capable of rear-firing, a unique feature whereby the missile flips immediately after launch and flies at a target behind the plane. AA-12s with this feature have been tested and are possibly operational within the Flanker community.

The F-22 is currently equipped with relatively outdated AIM-9 variants, and lacking a helmet mounted sight for off-boresight targeting. This is likely to be rectified before the PAK-FA enters full scale service and so F-22 and PAK-FA will likely be closely match in this technology.

Both aircraft are equipped with a single cannon; 20mm Vulcan for the F-22 and probably a Gsh-30-1 (as per the Flanker) for the PAK-FA. Many reports suggest that PAK-FA will have two cannons but this seems unlikely and the T-50 prototype appears to only have one gun port, situated on the starboard forward fuselage.


Air-Ground role: The F-22 started life as a straightforward air superiority fighter (later rebranded “Air Dominance”) but has been evolved to carry a potent strike capability. Part of the drive towards the multirole capability was the conspicuous absence of a credible “5th Generation” air threat from the Russian side. The F-22 was conceived in the 1980s against the background of the cold war, facing off to a generation of Soviet fighters which never came. For a while the F-22 looked somewhat spare and a strike capability was added, made possible by US advances in GPS weaponry. The F-22’s internal weapons bays were not large enough for substantial loads so special smaller-diameter bombs have been developed. The F-22’s air-ground weapons load is modest to say the least, but its ability to deliver them to the target seems unrivalled and more than makes up for this deficiency.

The PAK-FA too is reportedly a multi-role design. The internal weapons bays appear larger than on F-22, but are of unconfirmed depth and may not be capable of carrying many of the weapons speculated. Various Kh-31 (AS-17 Krypton) family supersonic missiles seem plausible albeit on the large side, as do satellite guided bombs and KAB-500 series bombs. The weapons bays are about 5m long.


A folding fin version of the Kh-58 ‘Kilter’ anti-radiation missile has been shown and this seems a reasonable fit, though may be more relevant to the MiG SKAT UCAV program rather than the PAK-FA.

Avionics: The PAK-FA has several features of particular interest here. In the nose there is likely to be active electronically scanned array radar (AESA) as per F-22. This may actually have additional mechanical steering, although that would add weight. What’s virtually unique to the PAK-FA however is rear-facing radar in the tail. This too may be AESA and could simply be an additional array for the nose-mounted radar, or possibly a completely separate set. The PAK-FA therefore has true 360 degree coverage. Additionally the PAK-FA is thought to have L-Band radars mounted in the wing leading edges. These would have both passive and active emitting roles and may be the key to ‘seeing’ stealth aircraft such as the F-22. Alternatively these may be located in the wing LERX sides – the exact location is subject to some speculation. The F-22’s stealth is generally optimized against X-band radars as that is what fighters generally use – L-Band is a much longer wavelength and can more easily detect stealth aircraft but is also less accurate -hence X-band radars are still used for routine intercept and virtually all fighters use X-Band.

There is serious doubt of Russia’s ability to mass produce key computer components such as micro processors. This may prove a deployment bottleneck, or Western off-the-shelf processors may be used. Russia has proven capability to produce Phased array radars, datalinks etc and may attempt to sidestep technological deficiencies.

Unlike the F-22 the PAK-FA will feature an IRST optical/IR search and tracking system. The decision not to fit an IRST to the F-22 may be reconsidered to rectify this gap. IRST promises to be the best way to target stealth aircraft since regardless of the IR stealth claims made of the F-22, jet engines are fundamentally not conducive to IR invisibility. The trail of hot air behind the F-22 is likely the first thing the PAK-FA may see, perhaps as far as 25km.

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Sukhoi’s recent demonstration cockpit mock-ups, which may relate to both Su-35 or PAK-FA, suggest two very large multi-function-displays (MFDs) and a very wide Head-up-display (HUD). The T-50-1’s cockpit clearly has the massive HUD. If this mock-up cockpit is essentially similar to PAK-FA’s, then compared to the F-22 the PAK-FA’s will take advantage of advancing technologies of past decade and be relatively more advanced than F-22s. The F-22 has 4 large and two small MFDs and a large HUD, but PAK-FA’s two displays are much larger still and the HUD even bigger:

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Dogfighting:
The F-22 is exceptionally maneuverable, but comparatively less dogfight optimized compared to the PAK-FA which has 3D thrust vectoring and moving LERX. This seems in line with Russian doctrine still influenced by the Syrian experiences over the Baka Valley in 1981 where Soviet supplied fighters were decimated by the Israeli air force in close combat. It seems probable that the PAK-FA is more maneuverable, but the F-22 may have speed-bleed/regain advantages.
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The F-22 has larger wing leading-edge flaps and larger tail planes. The PAK-FA’s tail fins are smaller but all-moving and the 3D TVC allows the engines to be used both laterally and horizontally unlike the F-22 which relies on massive tail fins for lateral stability and yaw control.

Source - Planeman's Military Analysis
 
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DONGUZ RANGE/Orenburg region/, September 18. /TASS/. Russia’s T-50 (PAK FA) fifth-generation fighter will be tested in military drills as soon as it enters service next year, Russian Air and Space Forces Commander-in-Chief Col. Gen. Viktor Bondarev has said.

"The first T-50s should enter service in 2016," Bondarev said, adding that the plane will be "immediately tested in all its capabilities in all the exercises like Su-30 and Su-35 jets."

The pilots are now testing the aircraft’s capabilities at the Akhtubinsk range in southern Russia.

"The aircraft is excellent, it has huge capabilities, and moreover the aircraft computer will do the maximum itself, while the pilot will only control its actions. We lay great hopes on this plane and I think, it will justify them," Bondarev said.

Earlier, Bondarev said that the PAK FA (Prospective Airborne Complex of Frontline Aviation) fighter jet would enter service in 2016 and its serial supplies would start from 2017.

The PAK FA fighter jet showed high flight characteristics at the recent MAKS-2015 air show in Zhukovsky near Moscow. The aircraft performed several most difficult aerobatic maneuvers for the first time, including a flat spin and a tailslide.
 
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according to The Economic Times , IAF demanding 5th generation, stealth fighter to match China J-20 and FC-31 and not inferior to US F-22 or F-35, new engines and new weapons plus R&D. I think R&D will take its full time.
 
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IAF frets over Russian fighter aircraft deal - The Economic Times

NEW DELHI: The worries of the air force on getting a capable fifth generation fighter aircraft to counter the development of two futuristic fighters by China are mounting with little clarity on the Russian program that New Delhi had signed onto in 2010.

As Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar heads to Russia later this month for bilateral military-technical consultations, top officers of the air force fear that the fifth generation fighter aircraft (FGFA) program may never take off if things continue at the present pace, foreclosing it as an option for a viable future fighter aircraft.

Senior IAF officials have told ET that several questions have been raised by India on the FGFA program, with little feedback or sharing of details by the Russian side. For starters, the IAF has not been given a tentative per unit production cost of the next generation fighter that is being developed by Sukhoi.

"It is impossible to sign on to anything with Russia till we have some clarity on the per unit cost of an aircraft. If the price turns out to be exorbitant, we may not even be able to afford it," a senior officer told ET. The air force's worry is not without merit, given that production costs for Russian aircraft in India have gone up tremendously in the past 10 years.

At present, a Sukhoi 30 MKI that would cost Rs 227 crores to manufacture in Russia, rolls out of HAL's Nashik plant for over Rs 440 crores. This considerable mark-up is due to the extra man hours that are required by HAL to manufacture an aircraft, the official explained.

Even if price could be sorted out, officials say that several basic questions on technical capabilities of the under development fighter exist with no reasonable explanation from Russia in sight. Besides the fact that Russia has not been able to develop a new engine for the aircraft that would give it super cruise capability - to fly faster than the speed of sound without going to afterburners - the IAF is worried about the weapons package for the fighter.

"Till now, all we see is that the weapons being offered by Russia for the FGFA are the same ones that are available for our Su 30 MKI fleet. A fifth generation aircraft is not just the platform but the entire package - from sensors to weapons, which we are yet to see," the officer said.

The IAF feels that as per the present design, the weapons on offer are too large to be fitted into the internal weapons bay of the FGFA. At present configuration this would end up with the weapons being loaded externally, taking away the most basic feature of a fifth generation fighter - stealth. "The weapons bay is too small and external weapons would show up the fighter on radar," the official told ET.


India has already invest $ 295 million in the Russian FGFA program with a design contract signed in 2010. However, a subsequent plan for a full fledged research and design program has not materialized, even as the intended Indian work share on the platform has depleted.


While the US has two fifth generation fighters operational - the F 22 and F 35, China is fast tracking its own next generation fighter programs -the J 20 air superiority fighter and the FC 31 medium fighter. India has also announced its plans for a future Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) with the air force looking at a 15 year induction plan if the project progresses on time.
 
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From Т-50 - Страница 6
Long-term plan for the T-50 to 2020 .:
2016 - T-50-9 and T-50-10 and T-50-11.
2017 - T-50-12 (re-static), the T-50C-1.2 .
2018 - T-50C-3.4
2019 - T-50C-5,6,7,8, PMI 1.2.
2020 - T-50C-9,10,11,12, PMI 3.4.
In articles T-50C and the PMI design documentation for the plant not yet been received.

Note PMI=FGFA
all Credit to Azokh Wel original poster in airforce.ru and TingMing in another forum for pointing this out
It implies 4 FGFA protos by 2020


more quotes

Improvements cover the gun, and the fuselage. Panels of RMB under the threat of separation, so they will increase 2-meter plates.
T-2.6.50 - to perfect systems on FOX
T-50-8 - docked SUNGLASSES, as planned transfer to LIS 15.10.
T-50-9 - began docking of the fuselage.

T-50-2 - completed maintenance work, stabilizers (GO) replaced by new, replaced the left engine.
T-50-3 - installed a new set of 101KS-B, SIC patched receiver under the regime of refueling in the air.
The total plaque exceeded 1000 hours.
T -50-8 - term transfer to LIS shifted to 01.11.

The design is being constantly improved, every day makes a difference.
50-8 should get a full set of avionics (radar L-band, a complete set of A-402, etc.),
50-9 from 50-8 differs mainly in the direction of improving manufacturability.
T-50-7 on the fuselage corresponds to 6-2 on SUNGLASSES be even more advanced (redesigned side members in order to increase strength).



A photo of T-50-5R after repair flight
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Image posted by Gadeshi in another forum

Can some one explain whats that under its right wing?
 
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