Su-30MKI & JF-17 Air Fight

[Sapper]

you forgot to add one more point ...it will also run short on fuel ...so less time to play cat and mouse games

sure ... you are correct ... shall i edit my original post ??

but do remember that Su30 will be aggressor and will travel from far away and will have to get back to friendly soil to land. FC-1 doctrine constricts it mostly to protecting its own soil (PAF will use F16s and FC20s as agressors and probably never opt for lone FC-1s for aggressor role).
I am not rejecting your premise, i acknowledge it, just that the real world scenarios during which FC-1 will get low on fuel will be limited to probably 2~3/100.

But nice addition to my list. Thanks.

 

[ouiouiouiouiouioui]

quite funny thread....people just start comparing apple with oranges...........it is like how ISRO can become EADS or NASA...by altering this or that...............my dear all.....when you compare two things always remember.....you are comparing Flanker .........which has a proven flight hours......if anybody here know about...the term is called RAM......reliabilty, availability, maintainability......everything is proven......here with all those data' s available with Russians........than we come to chinese platforms........it may come out from that chinese have produced a replicated prototype with varoius ingredients...however full creditworthyness will be tested.....when it will be 1-on-1 with Flanker.........

 

[Sapper]

quite funny thread....people just start comparing apple with oranges...........it is like how ISRO can become NASA...by altering this or that...............my dear all.....when you compare two things always remember.....you are comparing Flanker .........which has a proven flight hours......if anybody here know about...the term is called RAM......reliabilty, availability, maintainability......everything is proven......here with all those data' s available with Russians........than we come to chinese platforms........it may come out from that chinese have produced a replicated prototype with varoius ingredients...however full creditworthyness will be tested.....when it will be 1-on-1 with Flanker.........

russian equipment fails your beloved RAM criterion inside and out (I am not saying that Chinese are better ... just that Russians are bad).

Do remember that Pakistan has russian equipment as well. the Mi17 heli's with Pak Army are a pain in the @ss when compared to french Puma. I have an army engineer friend maintaining those birds who can't stop bull$hitting russians on the level of maintenance their birds require. India has had many difficulties in past maintaining Su30s ... lots of reports are their ... just find on google.

If you mean that flanker reliability is proven ... yes ... its proven BAD ... just watch red flag video to see how indians fear getting one of their engines into a "maintanance" cycle

(During this post i have carefully avoided saying FC-1 has good maintenance record, as no one knows, not us, not them, it will still take some time, but it will probably end up in the same $hitty league as flanker)

 

[Sapper]

Reminds me of an old Bollywood song......

'' main aur meri tanhai....aksar yeh batain karte hain.....tum hoti toh yeh hota.....tum hoti to woh hota.....tum is baat pe kitna hasti...tum us baat pe hairaan hoti.......tum hoti toh ..........main aur meri tanhai...aksar yeh batain karte hain....''

LOL....done....now ..somthing meaningfull.....your politicians have failed Pakistan miserably.... More than half of the world looks towards Pakistanwith skepticisim...the otherelesser half does not even care.....Pakistan needs some agressive CBMs in place for world to start thinking of Pakistan as a viable trade partner...in all aspects...from defence to civil services.....now please dont say youve got China on your side.....till 10 yr back ou were proud of your American friendship...and now your people want America wiped from the face of the earth.........may be you will think of something same for China a decade down the line....

People giving Pakistan cash for nation building would never let the money to be thrown into some extacy project...so make your own money to buy whatever you want......

dear ... stick to tech debate ... this is not political forum ... i probably shouldn't have dignified your post with a reply

 

[Haanzo]

sure ... you are correct ... shall i edit my original post ??

but do remember that Su30 will be aggressor and will travel from far away and will have to get back to friendly soil to land. FC-1 doctrine constricts it mostly to protecting its own soil (PAF will use F16s and FC20s as agressors and probably never opt for lone FC-1s for aggressor role).
I am not rejecting your premise, i acknowledge it, just that the real world scenarios during which FC-1 will get low on fuel will be limited to probably 2~3/100.

dont worry su-30 blips on pakistans border radars will become a common thing now as they will be placed near the western border ...Bet tHose guys at PAF will be thinking of clearing IOC right now ,not facing flankers LOL

 

[ouiouiouiouiouioui]

when compared to french Puma

this is why i say comparing apple with oranges...you did it again........................now you see your post....and what i interpret from it is that there are lot of issues.....or when i say...in technical terms ....feedback data's.......which is very important.........but you wont get modifications in the same platform let us say SU27....but probably u will find modifications done and the bird's name is changed...this is actually development of platforms...SU's ..platform........now u come to chinese platform...and i dont have any feedback.......atleast when i say feedback...it should be a million hour baby........thats why i say......

 

[Sapper]

dont worry su-30 blips on pakistans border radars will become a common thing now as they will be placed near the western border ...Bet tHose guys at PAF will be thinking of clearing IOC right now ,not facing flankers LOL

you are right once again ... IOC + FOC will still take long ... perhaps 3~5 years will pass before we have a seasoned squadron of FC-1 ready for ACTIVE service, while having developed pilot skills as well as war-time strategies.

All we are talking here is the effect of FC-1 on Su30's pilot's strategies, an IAF's decision to Go-No-Go for a mission if it involves Su30 vs FC-1 scenario. Currently Su30 pilots might ont even bother to train these possibilities, as in its current form, FC-1 posses little or no threat to Su30, but if FC-1 recieves the upgrades I talked about, Su30 pilots will train HARD to avoid getting themselves attacked upon by FC-1. Again I talk of HYPOTHETICAL scenario, only if FC-1 gets upgrades ... currently Su30 pilots need not worry at all. I know I wouldnt (if i was flying Su30).

 

[Sapper]

this is why i say comparing apple with oranges...you did it again........................now you see your post....and what i interpret from it is that there are lot of issues.....or when i say...in technical terms ....feedback data's.......which is very important.........but you wont get modifications in the same platform let us say SU27....but probably u will find modifications done and the bird's name is changed...this is actually development of platforms...SU's ..platform........now u come to chinese platform...and i dont have any feedback.......atleast when i say feedback...it should be a million hour baby........thats why i say......

Dear i am comparing Mi17 (russian) to Aérospatiale Puma, boith are utility helis with two engines each ... Mi17 has 2500 flight hour enigne life ... Puma has 8000 ... more over ... Mi17 is pain in the *** to maintain.

Pakistan currently operates russian(Mi17), french(Puma), american(Bell412) equipment ... and its a fact that russian equipment is a pain in the @ss when it comes to RAM. I am talking about Heli's because currently Pakistan doesnt fly any russian fixed wing fighters, only amerian, french and chinese, so i cannot compare RAM capabilities of russian equipment while giving example from PAF fixed wing arsenel.

If you believe russian equipment has better RAM ... prove it ... or else, read what is written in your newspapers about your SAMs, AAMs and Fighters reliability.

 

[desiman]

dear ... stick to tech debate ... this is not political forum ... i probably shouldn't have dignified your post with a reply

I agree with you sapper, please everyone stick to the topic and please dont raise other issues here, lets keep it nice and friendly and no hard feelings please, act like adults not kids

 

[ISRO2]

you are right once again ... IOC + FOC will still take long ... perhaps 3~5 years will pass before we have a seasoned squadron of FC-1 ready for ACTIVE service, while having developed pilot skills as well as war-time strategies.

All we are talking here is the effect of FC-1 on Su30's pilot's strategies, an IAF's decision to Go-No-Go for a mission if it involves Su30 vs FC-1 scenario. Currently Su30 pilots might ont even bother to train these possibilities, as in its current form, FC-1 posses little or no threat to Su30, but if FC-1 recieves the upgrades I talked about, Su30 pilots will train HARD to avoid getting themselves attacked upon by FC-1. Again I talk of HYPOTHETICAL scenario, only if FC-1 gets upgrades ... currently Su30 pilots need not worry at all. I know I wouldnt (if i was flying Su30).

Sir please tell us after upgradation how much threat FC-1 can be to matured sukhoi-30MKI? thank you.

 

[Sapper]

Sir please tell us after upgradation how much threat FC-1 can be to matured sukhoi-30MKI? thank you.

Well Su27 series programmes have started to mature into Su30s, Su33s and Su35s decades after its inception ... same is the case with F16 and F15, and judjing by the history, FC-1 will be no different.

But one thing is for sure, Su30 IS and will remain one step ahead of FC-1 unless we produce some WARP speed miracle program to upgrade our FC-1 faster than the speed of light. FC-1 is and will remain inferior tech as compare to MKI, reason being that it was created to replace Our Mirages/F7s/A5s/F6s and counter IAFs Mig21s/Mirages/Mig29s but not Su30s.

If we somehow manage to produce an upgrade that will neutralize IAFs MKI advantage altogether (and i doubt that it will EVER happen), India will imidiately buy another upgrade for MKI or worse ... a superior weapons platform and dump MKI altogether, just like its mig21s (which were pride of IAF Dacades ago).

In short term, none of these fact hold true, as both planes will continue to develop with time for atleast 2~3 dacades, and who knows what the tech sccenario will look like then.

 

[hack]

Well Su27 series programmes have started to mature into Su30s, Su33s and Su35s decades after its inception ... same is the case with F16 and F15, and judjing by the history, FC-1 will be no different.

But one thing is for sure, Su30 IS and will remain one step ahead of FC-1 unless we produce some WARP speed miracle program to upgrade our FC-1 faster than the speed of light. FC-1 is and will remain inferior tech as compare to MKI, reason being that it was created to replace Our Mirages/F7s/A5s/F6s and counter IAFs Mig21s/Mirages/Mig29s but not Su30s.

If we somehow manage to produce an upgrade that will neutralize IAFs MKI advantage altogether (and i doubt that it will EVER happen), India will imidiately buy another upgrade for MKI or worse ... a superior weapons platform and dump MKI altogether, just like its mig21s (which were pride of IAF Dacades ago).

In short term, none of these fact hold true, as both planes will continue to develop with time for atleast 2~3 dacades, and who knows what the tech sccenario will look like then.

The J-17 will continue to mature but the Su-30 has gone almost as much as it can.The ultimate evolution is the SU-35..in abilities seems pretty close to the MKI but for a better engine(which I heard is on the way into the MKI in the future) there will be no more flanker upgrades after that.The PAK-FA is the next platform.

 

[Jako]

What about the smart skin,radar upgrade apart from the tvc engine?.....also brahmos carrying capability?.....what more do you want?

 

[hack]

What about the smart skin,radar upgrade apart from the tvc engine?.....also brahmos carrying capability?.....what more do you want?

smart skin = rumor

radar upgrade = Yes

New TVC engine = Yes (from the Su 35)

brahmos = doubtful if the modifications can be done

Anyway the point remains, not much can be done with the Su 30 MKI from this point on.

 

[sudhir007]

Well Su27 series programmes have started to mature into Su30s, Su33s and Su35s decades after its inception ... same is the case with F16 and F15, and judjing by the history, FC-1 will be no different.

But one thing is for sure, Su30 IS and will remain one step ahead of FC-1 unless we produce some WARP speed miracle program to upgrade our FC-1 faster than the speed of light. FC-1 is and will remain inferior tech as compare to MKI, reason being that it was created to replace Our Mirages/F7s/A5s/F6s and counter IAFs Mig21s/Mirages/Mig29s but not Su30s.

If we somehow manage to produce an upgrade that will neutralize IAFs MKI advantage altogether (and i doubt that it will EVER happen), India will imidiately buy another upgrade for MKI or worse ... a superior weapons platform and dump MKI altogether, just like its mig21s (which were pride of IAF Dacades ago).

In short term, none of these fact hold true, as both planes will continue to develop with time for atleast 2~3 dacades, and who knows what the tech sccenario will look like then.

Remember India already plan to upgrade the old fleet by 2014 with new tvc, ost, asea, internal weapon way to reduce rcs at time you only have not more then 50 fc-1. and one more think MKI is iaf front line a/c before fgfa come when u include block-2 as your front line our mki is second line of plane.