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Su 30 MKI crashes in Western India

HA, wikipedia is your "neutral source"?

You know who Chuck yeager is. This is what he has to say about air war of 1971.

"War broke out only a couple of months after we had arrived, in late November 1971, when India attacked East Pakistan. The battle lasted only three days before East Pakistan fell. India's intention was to annex East Pakistan and claim it for themselves. But the Pakistanis counter-attacked. Air Marshal Rahim Khan laid a strike on the four closest Indian air fields in the western part of India, and wiped out a lot of equipment. At that point, Indira Gandhi began moving her forces toward West Pakistan. China moved in a lot of equipment, while Russia backed the Indians all the way. So, it really became a kind of surrogate war - the Pakistanis, with U.S. training and equipment, versus the Indians, mostly Russian-trained, flying Soviet airplanes.
The Pakistanis whipped their [Indians'] asses in the sky.
The air war lasted two weeks and the Pakistanis scored a three-to-one kill ratio, knocking out 102 Russian-made Indian jets and losing thirty-four airplanes of their own. I'm certain about the figures because I went out several times a day in a chopper and counted the wrecks below. I counted wrecks on Pakistani soil, documented them by serial number, identified the components such as engines, rocket
pods, and new equipment on newer planes like the Soviet SU-7
fighter-bomber and the MiG-21 J, their latest supersonic fighter"


Now chock on it and swallow!
https://www.google.com/amp/in.rbth.com/amp/362491
When Yeager discovered his plane was
smashed, he rushed to the US embassy in Islamabad and started yelling like a deranged maniac. His voice resounding through the embassy, he said the Indian pilot not only knew exactly what he was doing but had been specifically instructed by the Indian prime minister to blast Yeager's plane. In his autobiography, he later said that it was the “Indian way of giving Uncle Sam the finger”.

Yeager pressured the US embassy in Pakistan into sending a top priority cable to Washington that described the incident as a “deliberate affront to the American nation and recommended immediate countermeasures”. Basically, a desperate and distracted Yeager was calling for the American bombing of India, something that President Richard Nixon and his Secretary of State Henry Kissinger were already mulling.

But, says Ingraham: “I don't think we ever got an answer.” With the Russians on India’s side in the conflict, the American defence establishment had its hands full. Nobody had time for Yeager's antics.

However, Ingraham says there are clues Yeager played an active role in the war. A Pakistani businessman, son of a senior general, told him “excitedly that Yeager had moved into the air force base at Peshawar and was personally directing the grateful Pakistanis in deploying their fighter squadrons against the Indians. Another swore he had seen Yeager emerge from a just-landed jet fighter at the Peshawar base.

Later, in his autobiography, Yeager, the subject of Tom Wolfe’s much-acclaimed book “The Right Stuff” and a Hollywood movie, wrote a lot of nasty things about Indians, including downright lies about the IAF’s performance. Among the things he wrote was the air war lasted two weeks and the Pakistanis “kicked the Indians’ ***”, scoring a three-to-one kill ratio, knocking out 102 Russian-made Indian jets and losing 34 airplanes of their own.

Beyond the fog of war


The reality is that it took the IAF just over a week to achieve complete domination of the subcontinent’s skies. A measure of the IAF’s air supremacy was the million-man open air rallies held by the Indian prime minister in northern Indian cities, a week into the war. This couldn’t have been possible if Pakistani planes were still airborne.

Sure, the IAF did lose a slightly larger number of aircraft but this was mainly because the Indians were flying a broad range of missions. Take the six Sukhoi-7 squadrons that were inducted into the IAF just a few months before the war. From the morning of December 4 until the ceasefire on December 17, these hardy fighters were responsible for the bulk of attacks by day, flying nearly 1500 offensive sorties.


Pakistani propaganda, backed up by Yeager, had claimed 34 Sukhoi-7s destroyed, but in fact just 14 were lost. Perhaps the best rebuttal to Yeager’s lies is military historian Pushpindar Singh Chopra’s “A Whale of a Fighter". He says the plane’s losses were commensurate with the scale of effort, if not below it. “The Sukhoi-7 was said to have spawned a special breed of pilot, combat-hardened and confident of both his and his aircraft's prowess,” says Chopra.

Sorties were being launched at an unprecedented rate of six per pilot per day. Yeager himself admits “India flew numerous raids against Pakistani airfields with brand new Sukhoi-7 bombers being escorted in with MiG-21s”.

While Pakistani pilots were obsessed with aerial combat, IAF tactics were highly sophisticated in nature, involving bomber escorts, tactical recce, ground attack and dummy runs to divert Pakistani interceptors from the main targets. Plus, the IAF had to reckon with the dozens of brand new aircraft being supplied to Pakistan by Muslim countries like Jordan, Turkey and the UAE.

Most missions flown by Indian pilots were conducted by day and at low level, with the pilots making repeated attacks on well defended targets. Indian aircraft flew into Pakistani skies thick with flak, virtually non-stop during the 14-day war. Many Bengali guerrillas later told the victorious Indian Army that it was the epic sight of battles fought over their skies by Indian air aces and the sight of Indian aircraft diving in on Pakistani positions that inspired them to fight.

Indeed, Indian historians like Chopra have painstakingly chronicled the details of virtually every sortie undertaken by the IAF and PAF and have tabulated the losses and kills on both sides to nail the outrageous lies that were peddled by the PAF and later gleefully published by Western writers.

In this backdrop, the Pakistani claim (backed by Yeager) that they won the air war is as hollow as a Chaklala swamp reed. In the Battle of Britain during World War II, the Germans lost 2000 fewer aircraft than the allies and yet the Luftwaffe lost that air war. Similarly, the IAF lost more aircraft than the PAF, but the IAF came out on top. Not even Yeager’s biased testimony can take that away from Indians.
 
HA, wikipedia is your "neutral source"?

You know who Chuck yeager is. This is what he has to say about air war of 1971.

"War broke out only a couple of months after we had arrived, in late November 1971, when India attacked East Pakistan. The battle lasted only three days before East Pakistan fell. India's intention was to annex East Pakistan and claim it for themselves. But the Pakistanis counter-attacked. Air Marshal Rahim Khan laid a strike on the four closest Indian air fields in the western part of India, and wiped out a lot of equipment. At that point, Indira Gandhi began moving her forces toward West Pakistan. China moved in a lot of equipment, while Russia backed the Indians all the way. So, it really became a kind of surrogate war - the Pakistanis, with U.S. training and equipment, versus the Indians, mostly Russian-trained, flying Soviet airplanes.
The Pakistanis whipped their [Indians'] asses in the sky.
The air war lasted two weeks and the Pakistanis scored a three-to-one kill ratio, knocking out 102 Russian-made Indian jets and losing thirty-four airplanes of their own. I'm certain about the figures because I went out several times a day in a chopper and counted the wrecks below. I counted wrecks on Pakistani soil, documented them by serial number, identified the components such as engines, rocket
pods, and new equipment on newer planes like the Soviet SU-7
fighter-bomber and the MiG-21 J, their latest supersonic fighter"


Now chock on it and swallow!
Like
Chuk yeagar claims were no authenticity working alOng with
Patrick Desmond Callaghan who was Pow himself :coffee:

In 1971, Air Commodore Callaghan was the PAF Chief Inspector, in charge of the verification of Pakistani claims of enemy aircraft kills. Working closely with him was the then United Sates air attache/adviser to the PAF, USAF Brigadier General Charles "Chuck" Yeager (the first man to break the sound barrier).

Shows how neutral were he was



He was against us as were the US govt time and send 7 fleet to save backs but failed

Perhaps he should read recorded history of his own State depaetment report and media around the worlds that time
 
Still our crash rate is pretty low than paf


Don't worry i won't post videos of MiGs bombing dhaka unchallenged
Yea, with Dacca runway damaged and PAF grounded, the IAF was obviously feeling brave, however one wonders where was IAF during PAF's marauding daylight raids on Utterlai and the game changing strikes on Mukerian rail yards, plenty of images available on those too.
Do you know how many airforce officers were Pow in 1971 over 883 along with there commanding officer :rofl::rofl:
And how many of those did the IAF exactly managed to shoot down, in fact all N0 14 squadron pilots were retrieved to carry out the strikes from the west.
14 days of continuous raids including night bombings and the IAF didn't manage to hit one of the eleven grounded Sabres ....that sure was unchallenging feat by your MiGs. :laugh:
 

_99b8069a-0993-11e7-814d-775bded0c5ff.jpg


People gather at the crash site of the Sukhoi 30 aircraft in Rajasthan’s Barmer district on Wednesday.(HT Photo)

In the first incident, a Sukhoi-30 fighter crashed in Rajasthan’s Barmer district on Wednesday – raising the number of accidents pertaining to the Russian-origin aircraft to seven since 2009.

Defence spokesperson Manish Ozha said the fighter, which was on a training sortie, allegedly developed a snag around noon. Though both the pilots managed to eject safely, the jet crashed in a residential area – injuring three members of a family.

India’s Sukhoi-30 fleet, which is plagued by engine troubles and poor serviceability issues, recorded as many as 35 engine snags between January 2013 and December 2014. Its serviceability currently stands at 60%, which means only 60 out of 100 fighters are available for missions at any given point in time.

Upon being intimated about the aircraft crash, IAF officials and local authorities – including Barmer district collector Sudheer Sharma and deputy superintendent of police Omprakash Ujjawal – reached the spot. Sharma identified the injured people as Devaniyon ki Dhani resident Narayanaram, his wife Dallu Devi and son Hanumana Ram.
 
Yea, with Dacca runway damaged and PAF grounded, the IAF was obviously feeling brave, however one wonders where was IAF during PAF's marauding daylight raids on Utterlai and the game changing strikes on Mukerian rail yards, plenty of images available on those too.

And how many of those did the IAF exactly managed to shoot down, in fact all N0 14 squadron pilots were retrieved to carry out the strikes from the west.
14 days of continuous raids including night bombings and the IAF didn't manage to hit one of the eleven grounded Sabres ....that sure was unchallenging feat by your MiGs. :laugh:
Lets here from some famous histrorians

The PAF deployed the F-6s mainly on defensive combat air patrol missions over their own bases, but without the preferentialair superiority, the PAF was unable to conduct effective offensive operations and its attacks were largely ineffective.The Indian Air Force's raids destroyed one USAF and oneUN in Dacca while the Canada's RCAF DHC-4 Caribou was also destroyed in Islamabad, alongside with the USAF's Beech U-8 owned by the US military's liaison chief Brigadier-General Chuck Yeager Sporadic raids by the Indian air force continued against PAF forward air bases in Pakistan until the end of the war and interdiction and close-support operations were maintained.:

The PAF played a more limited part in the operations and were reinforced by F-104sfrom Jordan, Mirages from an unidentified Middle Eastern ally (remains unknown) and by F-86s from Saudi Arabia.:Their arrival helped camouflage the extent of PAF losses and the Libyan F-5s were reportedly deployed to Sargodha AFB, perhaps as a potential training unit to prepare Pakistani pilots for an influx of more F-5s from Saudi Arabia.:112The IAF was able to conduct a wide range of missions – troop support; air combat; deep penetration strikes; para-dropping behind enemy lines; feints to draw enemy fighters away from the actual target; bombing and reconnaissance.:The PAF, which was solely focused on air combat, was blown out of the subcontinent’s skies within the first week of the war.:lol:
Those PAF aircraft that survived took refuge at Iranian air bases or in concrete bunkers, refusing to offer:rofl::rofl::lol:

Source :

Bowman, Martin (2016-01-30). Cold War Jet Combat: Air-to-Air Jet Fighter Operations 1950–1972. Pen and Sword.ISBN 9781473874633. Retrieved24 December 2016.


 
It's time for our friends across the border to rejoice and celebrate. This crash vindicates there claims that a cost efficient fighter is better than a purpose built air dominance fighter. A lousy track record of 7 crashes in 15years is the proof of that.

As someone rightly said above, fanboys will drag every component on MKI in ever discussion out of inferiority complex. But for the comparison we are to believe few "professionals" words. Plus how can we forget 1 PAF pilots > 10 Vegi Indians. The DSI alone on the majestic alone will shoot down 12 MKIs... Who cares if the adversaries have numerical and quality advantage, who cares if the adversary can "see & shoot" first, who cares if a single adversary can carry almost twice the payload or send out targeting data to other low flying birds or use its mammoth radar to blind others, MKI do not stand a chance infront of those next generation Fighters...

^^^^
Excellent post mate but you forget to add two more sentences in your post.

1. Man behind the machine
2. PAF pilots better train.

Please don't ask references they will throw couple of names and few untold stories from 60's-70's.


Regards,
Jailer
 
Last edited:
HA, wikipedia is your "neutral source"?

You know who Chuck yeager is. This is what he has to say about air war of 1971.

"War broke out only a couple of months after we had arrived, in late November 1971, when India attacked East Pakistan. The battle lasted only three days before East Pakistan fell. India's intention was to annex East Pakistan and claim it for themselves. But the Pakistanis counter-attacked. Air Marshal Rahim Khan laid a strike on the four closest Indian air fields in the western part of India, and wiped out a lot of equipment. At that point, Indira Gandhi began moving her forces toward West Pakistan. China moved in a lot of equipment, while Russia backed the Indians all the way. So, it really became a kind of surrogate war - the Pakistanis, with U.S. training and equipment, versus the Indians, mostly Russian-trained, flying Soviet airplanes.
The Pakistanis whipped their [Indians'] asses in the sky.
The air war lasted two weeks and the Pakistanis scored a three-to-one kill ratio, knocking out 102 Russian-made Indian jets and losing thirty-four airplanes of their own. I'm certain about the figures because I went out several times a day in a chopper and counted the wrecks below. I counted wrecks on Pakistani soil, documented them by serial number, identified the components such as engines, rocket
pods, and new equipment on newer planes like the Soviet SU-7
fighter-bomber and the MiG-21 J, their latest supersonic fighter"


Now chock on it and swallow!

Nah, according to some fanboys, he is a Pakistani paid mouthpiece. ;)
 
Best news is pilots are safe and no damage is done to property as well. This essentially translates to monitory loss of ~50 million something we can manage. I am convinced that rate of crash is low looking at the data provided. I am also convinced that people who have no interest in looking at facts cannot be convinced hence there is zero merit in talking to them.
 
it's not fake, the main reason is India has low class airforce, pilots are ill trained, not well educated, pay bribe to get into airforce or army then what can you aspect from these guys who are afraid & shaking when flying.
Send them for training to Pakistan


Long live Pakistan
Long live Pakistan armed forces
Long live Pakistan Airforce

^^^^

Mate if you're done with most usual rant can we discuss fact and figures? May I take this opportunity to ask you few questions? What's make you think PAF is well trained ? Can you please enlighten us with some facts in order to understand PAF superior training? Please don't throw outdated stories and rest of your post complete hogwash not worth replying.

Let assume PaF pilot use all it missiles and there is nothing left to fire but still there are few enemy aircraft out of there so now what paf pilot will do?do you think he fly out from his aircraft canopy and hit enemy aircraft with his head ?


Regards,
Jailer
 
Still our crash rate is pretty low than paf


Don't worry i won't post videos of MiGs bombing dhaka unchallenged

Do you know how many airforce officers were Pow in 1971 over 883 along with there commanding officer :rofl::rofl:

Would you like us to post picture of Indian Punjab occupied by pakistani forces.
But no matter what. Or the Indian air force Gnat forced down and is still a trophy in pakistan. Has a fighter aircraft ever been forced down like that. Nation of cowards

WE TORE PAKISTAN FEON THE HEART OF INDIA AND STILL HAVE IT. NO MATTER WHAT YOU SAY. BANGLADESH IS STILL AN INDEPENDENT MUSLIM COUNTRY TAKEN FEOM INDIA. SO WHAT VICTORY. YOUR LAND IS WITH US
 
pakistanis no need to get your titas hot for a crash of your arch rival's plane crash.... they happen every now and then in every air force... unless you got some alien flying saucers which too have crashed and been covered up by major world powers....

indians no need to conduct a d**k swinging contest on who's better and what is better or what is not....


but damn... two plane crash on the same day... was it on march 14 or 15 cause last two days has been pretty lazy and tam!
 
Indians congratulations for the new death bed of IAF. Hope this time they will ground the whole fleet :)
 
You do realize your PAF has a higher crash rate.
Shhhhhh.... wat the hell do you think you are doing? Stating facts? You are the kind of person, who if left unchecked will bring in numbers!! Who the hell discusses facts and figures?

Don't engage with one liners. Quote figures and numbers along with its source if you are committed. Warna sab to have me hi baat kar rahe hai...
 
Last edited:
https://www.google.com/amp/in.rbth.com/amp/362491
When Yeager discovered his plane was
smashed, he rushed to the US embassy in Islamabad and started yelling like a deranged maniac. His voice resounding through the embassy, he said the Indian pilot not only knew exactly what he was doing but had been specifically instructed by the Indian prime minister to blast Yeager's plane. In his autobiography, he later said that it was the “Indian way of giving Uncle Sam the finger”.

Yeager pressured the US embassy in Pakistan into sending a top priority cable to Washington that described the incident as a “deliberate affront to the American nation and recommended immediate countermeasures”. Basically, a desperate and distracted Yeager was calling for the American bombing of India, something that President Richard Nixon and his Secretary of State Henry Kissinger were already mulling.

But, says Ingraham: “I don't think we ever got an answer.” With the Russians on India’s side in the conflict, the American defence establishment had its hands full. Nobody had time for Yeager's antics.

However, Ingraham says there are clues Yeager played an active role in the war. A Pakistani businessman, son of a senior general, told him “excitedly that Yeager had moved into the air force base at Peshawar and was personally directing the grateful Pakistanis in deploying their fighter squadrons against the Indians. Another swore he had seen Yeager emerge from a just-landed jet fighter at the Peshawar base.

Later, in his autobiography, Yeager, the subject of Tom Wolfe’s much-acclaimed book “The Right Stuff” and a Hollywood movie, wrote a lot of nasty things about Indians, including downright lies about the IAF’s performance. Among the things he wrote was the air war lasted two weeks and the Pakistanis “kicked the Indians’ ***”, scoring a three-to-one kill ratio, knocking out 102 Russian-made Indian jets and losing 34 airplanes of their own.

Beyond the fog of war


The reality is that it took the IAF just over a week to achieve complete domination of the subcontinent’s skies. A measure of the IAF’s air supremacy was the million-man open air rallies held by the Indian prime minister in northern Indian cities, a week into the war. This couldn’t have been possible if Pakistani planes were still airborne.

Sure, the IAF did lose a slightly larger number of aircraft but this was mainly because the Indians were flying a broad range of missions. Take the six Sukhoi-7 squadrons that were inducted into the IAF just a few months before the war. From the morning of December 4 until the ceasefire on December 17, these hardy fighters were responsible for the bulk of attacks by day, flying nearly 1500 offensive sorties.


Pakistani propaganda, backed up by Yeager, had claimed 34 Sukhoi-7s destroyed, but in fact just 14 were lost. Perhaps the best rebuttal to Yeager’s lies is military historian Pushpindar Singh Chopra’s “A Whale of a Fighter". He says the plane’s losses were commensurate with the scale of effort, if not below it. “The Sukhoi-7 was said to have spawned a special breed of pilot, combat-hardened and confident of both his and his aircraft's prowess,” says Chopra.

Sorties were being launched at an unprecedented rate of six per pilot per day. Yeager himself admits “India flew numerous raids against Pakistani airfields with brand new Sukhoi-7 bombers being escorted in with MiG-21s”.

While Pakistani pilots were obsessed with aerial combat, IAF tactics were highly sophisticated in nature, involving bomber escorts, tactical recce, ground attack and dummy runs to divert Pakistani interceptors from the main targets. Plus, the IAF had to reckon with the dozens of brand new aircraft being supplied to Pakistan by Muslim countries like Jordan, Turkey and the UAE.

Most missions flown by Indian pilots were conducted by day and at low level, with the pilots making repeated attacks on well defended targets. Indian aircraft flew into Pakistani skies thick with flak, virtually non-stop during the 14-day war. Many Bengali guerrillas later told the victorious Indian Army that it was the epic sight of battles fought over their skies by Indian air aces and the sight of Indian aircraft diving in on Pakistani positions that inspired them to fight.

Indeed, Indian historians like Chopra have painstakingly chronicled the details of virtually every sortie undertaken by the IAF and PAF and have tabulated the losses and kills on both sides to nail the outrageous lies that were peddled by the PAF and later gleefully published by Western writers.

In this backdrop, the Pakistani claim (backed by Yeager) that they won the air war is as hollow as a Chaklala swamp reed. In the Battle of Britain during World War II, the Germans lost 2000 fewer aircraft than the allies and yet the Luftwaffe lost that air war. Similarly, the IAF lost more aircraft than the PAF, but the IAF came out on top. Not even Yeager’s biased testimony can take that away from Indians.



EPIC fail.. you see sunny boy , anything from .IN is really what we call bollywood masla, "stright in the garbage" stuff.

Your kind was asking for neutral source, so I gave him one. Pakistan indeed whop Indian behind with 3:1 killing ratio, even in 1971 war. And in 1965, it was complete embarrassment for IAF.

Like
Chuk yeagar claims were no authenticity working alOng with
Patrick Desmond Callaghan who was Pow himself :coffee:

In 1971, Air Commodore Callaghan was the PAF Chief Inspector, in charge of the verification of Pakistani claims of enemy aircraft kills. Working closely with him was the then United Sates air attache/adviser to the PAF, USAF Brigadier General Charles "Chuck" Yeager (the first man to break the sound barrier).

Shows how neutral were he was



He was against us as were the US govt time and send 7 fleet to save backs but failed

Perhaps he should read recorded history of his own State depaetment report and media around the worlds that time


The problem with your kind is, that you wont like a neutral source, which dont fit your narrative, but for your kind, wikipedia is indeed neutral.

Nah, according to some fanboys, he is a Pakistani paid mouthpiece. ;)

Wikipedia is more authentic for these trolls from the east then the man who is considered as a legend in aviation history.
 
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