So what is your story? Why joined PDF?

[Sharma Ji]

Be honest, if you insist on representing us here.

but I am being honest, you only need go through what I've been posting here.

I have a deep wish to engage 'the willing' (an endangered dwindling bunch) here diplomatically, and to convey our truth to them without any name calling or a need to show anyone down.. what good does that accomplish anyway ?

Haha, I understand. Even if you were to accept the situation, however, it would be unwillingly and due to lack of viable options.

The point was, it's easy to declare Muslims as traitors for not being loyal to the state before being loyal to their personal beliefs when loyalty to the state is defined in a way that conforms with your personal opinions.

The moment the definition of loyalty changes to something that is diametrically opposed to your personal views/beliefs, it ceases to be about patriotism and becomes oppression/tyranny.

It would be very easy for a hardcore Muslim to be loyal in a society that matches their point of view. Similarly, it is the case with Hindus and everyone else. In today's India, it would be easier for a person to be loyal if they are Hindu because the powers that be have defined patriotism as being in accordance with hindu teachings.

I hope that clarifies my point.

No it doesn't, doesn't clarify anything, unfortunately.. but let's talk some more anyway.

First of all, please understand that there is no wish among us Indians to purge our religious sunnis, violently or otherwise.

Leadership doesn't want it, nor does the general population.

We're not talking about "muslims" in India, we're talking specifically about very religious sunnis muslims of India (to the exclusion of every other kind of Indian muslim)

That is our ONLY problem group, a "Variant of concern", if you will LOL

even among them, there are levels of "virulence"

loyalty shmoyalty.. everyone shoul be free to dissent against the powers that be here

we want democracy and public consent here, not some out of date black and white bs and one group gets to be exclusively retarded and are pampered by the state... hells no.

 

[PakFactor]

Joined PDF back in 2010. My brother who had joined the Army was active here prior to his call letter, while I used to spectate him browsing around the discussions. He abandoned his account which I held for 3 years until I made this one in 2013.

10 years back, I remember asking very dumb questions like *whY dONt wE hAve aN aiRcrAfT cArEEr PlX*

PDF Awaam at that time was highly sophisticated and discussions on topics used to be on topic, rarely we'd go offtopic. I was 16 at that time and received great answers which led me to the understandings of how ACs work.

I also remembering reading those bizzare adventures of our member Batman vs IRGC agents trying to assassinate him for his role in exposing Iran at PDF haha. Not being offensive but it was hell of a gem in those days.

Anyway, since 2013 am a Major because I rarely get involved in debates. I prefer reading more than speaking

If you don’t mind me asking we’ve engaged very few times in debates. But are you also in military like your brother or you’ve gone a different route?

 

[Big Tank]

If you don’t mind me asking we’ve engaged very few times in debates. But are you also in military like your brother or you’ve gone a different route?

Salam Wailekum Brother.

Yes, I rarely turn myself to single reply arguments. My thing is mostly about leaving a comment.

To the question. No, I didn't go for Army.

 

[IbnAbdullah]

Salaam

No it doesn't, doesn't clarify anything, unfortunately.. but let's talk some more anyway.

First of all, please understand that there is no wish among us Indians to purge our religious sunnis, violently or otherwise.

Leadership doesn't want it, nor does the general population.

We're not talking about "muslims" in India, we're talking specifically about very religious sunnis muslims of India (to the exclusion of every other kind of Indian muslim)

That is our ONLY problem group, a "Variant of concern", if you will LOL

even among them, there are levels of "virulence"

loyalty shmoyalty.. everyone shoul be free to dissent against the powers that be here

we want democracy and public consent here, not some out of date black and white bs and one group gets to be exclusively retarded and are pampered by the state... hells no.

I have heard many people question Muslim people's loyalty and thus my reply was with that in mind.

However, in most instances unless a Muslim is being forced to abandon basics of religion or things that would be of a personal or communal nature and do not impact the society at large, I doubt there will be much in the way of testing loyalties.

Islam doesn't have a Pope or an equivalent who can demand things of Muslims of the world especially things that may hurt their countries of residence.

It's just a hypothetical question that I've heard multiple times which is meant to cast doubt on the Muslims and make them appear as others in their respective countries.

With regards to the examples I gave, they were essentially reductio ad absurdum based. Not necessarily what is happening but extreme examples to illustrate my point.

 

[Sharma Ji]

I have heard many people question Muslim people's loyalty and thus my reply was with that in mind.

However, in most instances unless a Muslim is being forced to abandon basics of religion or things that would be of a personal or communal nature and do not impact the society at large, I doubt there will be much in the way of testing loyalties.

Islam doesn't have a Pope or an equivalent who can demand things of Muslims of the world especially things that may hurt their countries of residence.

It's just a hypothetical question that I've heard multiple times which is meant to cast doubt on the Muslims and make them appear as others in their respective countries.

With regards to the examples I gave, they were essentially reductio ad absurdum based. Not necessarily what is happening but extreme examples to illustrate my point.

what loyalty, man?

things are fine for muslims here overall

 

[Trango Towers]

I was bored ...
I still get bored when mods ban me...

 

[padamchen]

Exactly my point. Hindus are loyal to the current iteration of India. If tomorrow the situation were to change in a way mentioned, it would be considered acceptable by today's standards to destroy India than give up control.

Patriotism demands the destruction of Indian Territory. So the loyalty isn't towards the land or it's people, rather the current definition of India.

If that definition is threatened, the people and lands of India may be destroyed.

I'm not Hindu.

I'd press the button faster than any Hindu alive.

Please understand we see Pakistan and Bangladesh as a civil war.

Inasmuch as that is our world view, how do you think we see our own Muslims?

@jamahir @xeuss

5% of the right kind of Muslim is what India can and will live with.

Cheers, Doc

 

[sammuel]

Secondly Islam is there from day one of humanity when no nation existed

historically not true.

Timeline of religion - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[IbnAbdullah]

Salaam

5% of the right kind of Muslim is what India can and will live with.

Could you please elaborate on this?

 

[Azadkashmir]

Hindu gau gangsters ask indian muslim for thier loyalty but lets reverse it do hindu nation give muslim indian the loyalty weight for weight. Today indian muslim has to grovel at hindu feet to show loyalty and get lynched if not constantly taunted time and time again. Truth is indian muslim is hostage in his own country.

 

[Trango Towers]

Hindu gau gangsters ask indian muslim for thier loyalty but lets reverse it do hindu nation give muslim indian the loyalty weight for weight. Today indian muslim has to grovel at hindu feet to show loyalty and get lynched if not constantly taunted time and time again. Truth is indian muslim is hostage in his own country.

They need to change their mind set and fight

 

[GumNaam]

as my description says, to lay bitchslapping smack downs on the brown bungholes of many paajits!

 

[IbnAbdullah]

Salaam

There are too many Muslims in India and it's making us displeased because we thought there was a nation made separately especially for them, so why do we still have so many?

If I wanted to live in a country surrounded by burkas and jaali waali topis and three quarter pyjamas I'd move to a Muslim country.

I'd like my own to not impinge such sights on my eyes daily.

It annoys me.

It is distasteful for me because it is so diametrically incongruent to my own culture.

I want well dressed Muslims.

I want clean odourless Muslims.

I want fair good looking well fed Muslims.

I want loyal patriotic Indians who simply happen to be born to parents who worship Allah.

Cheers, Doc

Thanks for clarifying

 

[jamahir]

I want well dressed Muslims.

That I try to be. In fact clothing-shop assistants have called my clothing ( including shoes ) as elegant. And one girl in a former company called my style as retro.

 

[padamchen]

That I try to be. In fact clothing-shop assistants have called my clothing ( including shoes ) as elegant. And one girl in a former company called my style as retro.

We want Muslims who are not in their mid 30s but think it's cool to copulate with 15 year old girls because they smiled at them.

Cheers, Doc