Shutter down strike over blasphemy issue

[greatsequence]

Well, some of Gen Zia's family members and my Grand father were friends so I can vouch for this.

Gen. Zia married his sons into other powerful military families to keep a hold on power, one of them was Gen. Rahimuddin Khan. Especially after the unsuccessful 1981 coup against Zia thanks to Gen Abdul Rahman.

Mian Tufail and all Jamaati's used to be around for every happy occasion.

Here is a source anyway.



A nation in denial – The Express Tribune

Well we know that Mian Tufail and Zia were close but no one ever mentioned them being related. So I still have doubts over this. Never the less you have a stronger point with some sort of source.

 

[TARIQ BN ZIYAAD]

Not just this but all the Saudi approved laws from the times of Bhutto.

Bhutto used the Pan-Islamic card and in return was told to implement laws that the Sauds wanted to see.

Then Zia, to get support of the Saud's had to implement his 'Islamic' laws so that the money kept flowing to those damned 'Mujahids' fighting against the Godless Soviets.

Hello,

Keep on dreaming

TARIQ

 

[muse]

Looks like that hit a raw nerve - Tariq, does not Niaz Sahab's post make sense ? Is it not reasonable?

 

[Xestan]

Okay, so now we again have a "Blasphemy" related thread, NOT posted by a Pakistani and there we are fighting whether Zia was the nephew of Mian tufail or NOT!

Get a life people, I was also the idiot to argue on one the thread in favour of Blasphemy law BUT what I feel is, reality will not change, even if the so tiny minority secular goons try their level best to propagate that Pakistan was to be a secular country.

And as for the thread, please stop discussing it NOW, someone post the news and we fighting the hell with each other.

And Mr. T-Fraz is not a right person to argue with, he just rejects Quaid's speeches about Islamic ideology and keep repeating the so called Secular 'Song" again and again.

Already had a long discussion and what was the conclusion? A new thread, same BS!

Blasphemy law cannot be removed, Pakistan cannot become secular state!

That's all!

 

[muse]

no reason to get angry Mr. Rajppot, it's just a conversation, please do be civil.

 

[T-Faz]

Hello,

Since senior members of PLO acctepted they were wrong so it is now for u ppl to stop blaming zia. he was just obeying orders just like any soldier remember pak foj was there to protect the jordan king or country and who sent him there is to blame i bet he was also a secular who sent him there and if some PA Officers against it after what PLO senior have said these Opposing PA Officers were wrong u should appreciate the wisdom of zia ( lol). yes i know it will hurt.

Now coming to COAS role u might will feel good to blame bhutto for it but some other might differ from u. It was all bhutoo's fault to make unit officer COAS.

TARIQ

The orders were clear, do not attack PLO who were just reorganising and were not looking to overthrow the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan.

This can be confirmed by Gen Gul Hassan who supported Zia but was later deposed by the same person.

I did not know that PLO forgave him and so I would like a source, similarly, killing such a high amount was and is unnecessary.

And if this truly is the case, I can understand why there isn't a Palestine today.

Gen Zia superseded many other higher ranked officers, many of whom went into depression.

House of Saud and the King of Jordan lobbied for him, similarly his actions like outing the hand of Bhutto on a Quran and calling him a saviour helped.

Hello,

Keep on dreaming

TARIQ

This blasphemy law is a gift to the Pakistani people from its army when it ceded to the demands of Saudi Arabia in return for financial and political support during the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. In return for Saudi money, Saudi cooperation in the development of Madrassas and spread of Ahle Hadith ideology, all required to build motivation to fight the Soviets, Pakistan imported the Hudood Ordinance and the current blasphemy law.

Blasphemy law: An apparatus to sustain tyranny – The Express Tribune Blog

 

[SMC]

Really disappointed to see so much support for these inhumane and discriminatory laws. I am happy that no one has been executed because of these laws but still it still needs to go.

That being said, this law is not the source of any major problems of Pakistan, i.e. in terms of economic or terrorist problems.

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

And he was the darling of these Ulema and of the Arbis of the Saud family -- which of these ulema are against Jageerdarana policies, which of these ulema ever condemn sectarian violence -- and yes, we all agree that Islam is a tool, a play thing in the hands of ulema -- these thaikedars of the namoose and islam are as Niaz Sahab, has so reasonably suggested, playing into the hands of bigots and worse still, they turn off Muslims, after all, we have been Muslims long before these islamicans came to make Muslims out of us - be reasonable, we are not the enemy, the Ulema and the islamicans are.

I would only say that there are a few who are sincere towards Muslims... from within both Ulema and Islamicans... We should not paint everyone with the same brush...

I know you are not the enemy... However the secularists within the ruling elite as well as the military has caused us problems too, be them on the left or on the right... to blame all our ills on the Islamicans wont be very balanced either...

 

[Farooq]

I am waiting for a counter protest by the secular goons

 

[Skies]

Yeah... this law is the source of all our problems...

what a joke

Do not want to talk too much about your internal affairs. I my eyes the biggest problem and darkness in Pakistan is lack of tolerance in the those people who are creating turmoil and who are bombing on own people and country. If you follow the 'cause and effect' approach to find out today's biggest problem in Pakistan, that is killing own people, then you will find the lack of tolerance in extremists is the original cause.

Talking about only blasphemy:

If some one does blasphemy, then it is due to lack of his knowledge about sacred things. So your responsibility is to make him understand in proper way that he is wrong in his conception. But killing some one is not any solution for his misunderstanding about sacred things, neither he will understand his fault before his death. But if you give a death sentence to a killer then he must understand his fault before his death that it was really his fault to kill some body without proper reason. So if you kill someone for blasphemy, then it means he is died before understanding his faults and it means you also fail to give him proper reason which may help him to understand his faults. So it's you failure too and lack of your tolerance.

And a wise man and Muslim should have the tolerance and ability to make others understand about their faults. So do not think that if you kill someone for blasphemy then his misunderstanding about sacred things will be solved. Also, tolerance and patience is a part of Islam. You should not be paranoid of few people that they can prove Islam wrong.

 

[muse]

to blame all our ills on the Islamicans wont be very balanced either...

Were it true that, that is what we have done, then certainly -- you already know that the respected members we have read on this thread, leave no stone unturned when it comes to critically viewing the leadership, whether so called secular or so called religious.

For Ulema to be involved in street protests, to be raising slogans, to be marching with clenched fits in the air, to threaten violence should they not get their way - well, you know already that such behavior fails - after all who has expectations of scholars to behave like hooligans? but then we have seen lawyers, officers of the court behaving like goons as well - and look at the respect the majority has for the likes of lawyers and their so called movement.

Tariq, please take some time and review Niaz Sahab's post -- the greater danger is not these idiot so called "laws" , the greater danger is bringing out in the hearts of people, an abiding hatred and disrespect for Ulema -- when these ulema do not raise their voice against sucide bombings, when they do not raise their voice against mysogyny against militancy, well, we can go on and on can't we -- I hope you will consider Niaz Sahab's post.

 

[TARIQ BN ZIYAAD]

T-Faz

i didnot say they forgave him i said they accepted what they did was wrong no sir they attacked the king of jordan. i m no relative of zia nor i was a supporter of him these pppp govt. is million time better then zia ( i dont like a dictatorship). Since i knew this info i shared it it is interveiw given by plo leaders they r in arabic and years ago if u really want i can get them ( all of them on aljazeera tv most of them). Anyhow at the end zia didnot go by himself he was sent by his seniours

TARIQ

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

Do not want to talk too much about your internal affairs. I my eyes the biggest problem and darkness in Pakistan is lack of tolerance in the those people who are creating turmoil and who are bombing on own people and country. If you follow the 'cause and effect' approach to find out today's biggest problem in Pakistan, that is killing own people, then you will find the lack of tolerance in extremists is the original cause.

Talking about only blasphemy:

If some one does blasphemy, then it is due to lack of his knowledge about sacred things. So your responsibility is to make him understand in proper way that he is wrong in his conception. But killing some one is not any solution for his misunderstanding about sacred things, neither he will understand his fault before his death. But if you give a death sentence to a killer then he must understand his fault before his death that it was really his fault to kill some body without proper reason. So if you kill someone for blasphemy, then it means he is died before understanding his faults and it means you also fail to give him proper reason which may help him to understand his faults. So it's you failure too and lack of your tolerance.

And a wise man and Muslim should have the tolerance and ability to make others understand about their faults. So do not think that if you kill someone for blasphemy then his misunderstanding about sacred things will be solved. Also, tolerance and patience is a part of Islam. You should not be paranoid of few people that they can prove Islam wrong.

My dear... dont be so naive yaar... Do you really think in this age of info tech people insult the prophet saw due to lack of knowlege on the issue? I have personally spoken to some of the western government officials and journalists and know of people who have spoken to other governments as community leaders and spokespersons of political groups and told them the problems that insulting the prophet saw can cause... Do you think anyone cares about what you and I think? A man in Denmark was bluntly told that if he has problems with "freedom of speech" he was free to leave and go back to Lebanon from where he came from... This bigoted and hypocritical west is shameless when it comes to dealings with Muslims... My concern here is that such antics would be transported to our country also because lets face it we never adopt the good that is in the west and only apply the worst that they have to offer... In France a man was threatened with arrest and jail because he had participated in a photograph competition with a photo submitted wiping his behind with a French Flag!!! What about his freedom of speech? In Britain they have banned art work to be displayed because it insults the soul less person that they call their Queen... Bigoted to the bone man... You think they dont have knowledge about whats sacred? No my friend it is way beyond that... As proof of my earlier statement, in Jordan the sick kingdom, newspapers were writing what was the big deal if someone insulted the Prophet saw Naozobillah back in early 2006... This same Jordan puts people in jail for years if they say a harsh word in public against the idiot and useless King Abdullah...

Also... just because someone opposes insulting the Prophet saw does nt mean he/she is automatically calling for murder of everyone who is accused... Let the court of law find out the truth first... There is no mob justice in Islam...

This is nt just about the West btw... Everyone knows theft is theft... be it in Pakistan or Europe... So your logic and tolerance although appreciated does not fit in the issue...

 

[muse]

That was a disappointing post Tariq, a bigoted West is no reason we also should be bigoted - the Prophet of Islam needs no defense, God is his defender, leave some job to God, you guys seem determined to appropriate all of God's perogatives, is there a greater blasphemy?

 

[Skies]

My concern here is that such antics would be transported to our country also because lets face it we never adopt the good that is in the west and only apply the worst that they have to offer... In France a man was threatened with arrest and jail because he had participated in a photograph competition with a photo submitted wiping his behind with a French Flag!!! What about his freedom of speech? In Britain they have banned art work to be displayed because it insults the soul less person that they call their Queen... Bigoted to the bone man... You think they dont have knowledge about whats sacred? No my friend it is way beyond that... As proof of my earlier statement, in Jordan the sick kingdom, newspapers were writing what was the big deal if someone insulted the Prophet saw Naozobillah back in early 2006... This same Jordan puts people in jail for years if they say a harsh word in public against the idiot and useless King Abdullah...

I can understand your concern that you are worried about the influx of antics from foreign countries and the irony in western society. In that case I can tell that government can take proper measurements to check the activists who are trying to misleading your country people. If you find that someone is causing harm of your society intentionally even he is well aware of sacred things and religion, then action can be taken against him. But I still oppose any capital or big sentence just for blasphemy. I saw my friend to spake very badly against Allah in front of me, and after few years I saw him that he understood his fault. In Bangladesh we do not bother with such things, are not we living peacefully in that case? On the other hand, you are facing strikes and economical loss for being worry about blasphemy.


By the way, one thing can be done. If someone does blasphemy then he can be sent to rehabilitation center instead of jail to guide him in proper way. This would be a peaceful solution.