Shutter down strike over blasphemy issue

[TARIQ BN ZIYAAD]

T.T Muse

assalam alaikum

I did read his post carefully, T.T Niaz sahib writes beutifully and i m sure he is a nice and kind person that is shown from his writing. I learn from the writing of his and urs a lot, many thanks.

Short coming of ulema is very well accepted they r not angels as all other pakistani politicians.

He said we all muslim were muslim before these laws true if not these ulema's or some ulem we would have gone back to worship idols after our first muslim generations.

what is wrong if there was not such a law then it was there no matter who was behind it?

He was asking me to trust the words of the ppl, who by their own words said promises r not quranic verses. feel free to trust them they need to be pushed just like what nawaz and lawyer's did to restore the CJ.

To change a law they need INTENTIONS , MAJORITY
sherry rehman filed the bill ( intentions r clear) , the whole govt. kept quite till how many days untill the pressure was build

Can u tell me this bill was coming to which committee? and who heads that committee?

if u know the answer then u will know he would not give a damm if this law was scrapped or whatever. ( evil designs )

A day before restoring cj zardari said he will not be restored and after 24 hours he was taking credit for the restoration ( after twisting his arm) now if nawaz and lawyers do it why not protest ( there was not any burning of cars or takhribi kaam only a minor the protest was almost peacefull)

Now u wanna convince a normal pakistani to trust these ppl ?

I am asking is that we are also human beings and these Mullahs should one day do some thing for the sake of humanity as well. Don’t you agree that thousands of innocent Pakistanis have lost their lives thru suicide bombings? Situation is so bad that no one even wants to play cricket in Pakistan. Why not call for strike against suicide bombings? Why about a subject which became irrelevant when Gilani declared that PPP won’t follow it up?


I ask u why u the mullah what they say good for a society why dont u come out and lead the protest against the suicides.

I am surprised that so many intelligent people get emotionally excited as soon as any one criticizes actions of the religious parties. Don’t these people realize that they are unconsciously playing in the hand of the bigots and damaging Pakistan’s economy in the bargain?

The intelligent ppl know very well who play with the emotions be it a commercial mulla or a politician. But they take side when they see if it is according to or close to their demands or desires.

Actually i dont mind if another law is made that will give the same punishment for the accuser if he make up the accusation. We dont want any innocent be punishment no way . ch. shujaat asked for a new law to deal with the shortcomins of this law i think this is a good idea

And why dont u ask the govt. to improve the law enforcement agencies so they invistigate the incidents with just and with transperency.

Niaz sahib's post was an emotional ( he did the same what most of our ulema or politician do ) .

I said it earlier and say it again i dont belong to any party or any religous sect i m a simple muslim and i will prefer these pppp guys ( with all their coruptions and shortcomings ) over zia or any foji . So nothing hit my nerve.

Regards

TARIQ

 

[DesiGuy]

Exactly. Yet another flame magnet thread posted by an Indian.
Go figure!

Why the heck are you blaming me?? this is currently an event what is happening in Pakistan right now.

if this was not posted by me, somebody else would have posted it and that includes Pakistanis too.

 

[TARIQ BN ZIYAAD]

That was a disappointing post Tariq, a bigoted West is no reason we also should be bigoted - the Prophet of Islam needs no defense, God is his defender, leave some job to God, you guys seem determined to appropriate all of God's perogatives, is there a greater blasphemy?

assalam alaikum

I dont know which post u r reffering, i hope i m not following ur footsteps ( lol). I dont feel ashamed admitting that i m not that intelligent and very poor in english. Seriously i learn from u ppl.

Some time u ppl surprise us , u wanna tell a muslim if somebody insults his beloved prophet (PBUH) just ignore him, no sir ur advice is unacceptable and if there is something about deen i will goto the schalors not u, u might be scientiss or engineer but u r not qualified to tell me to leave everything to God. eventhough some of the seculars when we mention Allah they will say ( oye her cheez Allah hi karay go tum kuch nahi karo gay?

TARIQ

 

[muse]

Tariq

It seems that you may have misunderstood the opposition to this series of laws -- the opposition stems from their continued misuse, from the targeting of the poor (usually from a religious minority) and in particular of women.

Remember this is not about Europe or US or even India, it's about us, it's about Pakistan - and yes, there are wheels within wheels and games within games from every possible side when it comes to the machinations of our politicians, bureaucrats and socio-economic elites - so really it's about the kind of society we want -- if you imagine that our opposition is because it is "Islamic" - nothing could be further from the truth, though we are persuaded that it is very many things, Islamic it isn't , Islamican, perhaps -- any way, just so we are all clear, the opposition comes from the misuse of these laws.

I really must understand what some people have with this whole punishment thing - Your position, if I understand it correctly, is deeply painted by what you see as the hypocrisy of Europe and the US, it is a wrong you wish were righted (we all want the wrongs of the world righted) but with these laws, it is Pakistanis who are being victimized, it is Pakistani society that is seeing segments within it as enemies, worthy of cruel and unusual punishments -- in the UK and the US similarly groups at each others throats imagining themselves more patriotic, more something or the other, something to differentiate from others and in doing so, tear at the social fabric.

 

[Omar1984]

^^^ You will only find very few people in pakistan who are in favour of removing these laws. Just few NGOS ranting nothing more. A clear message what the people of pakistan think and want.

Maybe majority of people in Pakistan want the blasphemy laws unchanged but there are still millions of liberal people in Pakistan who want a secular Pakistan without any blasphemy laws.

 

[Developereo]

- There is nothing wrong with the spirit of the blasphemy law. No country in the world has absolute freedom of speech; there are limits in every society. As Muslims we have the right to live in a country where our core sensibilities are respected. I would even extend this courtesy to non-Muslims and have a general law against religious vilification. The state of Victoria in Australia has similar laws. Many European countries have laws against hate speech and, of course, we all know the 'special case' of Holocaust laws in Europe which are exempt from their free speech mantra. The proposed amendment offers that compromise: it leaves the law intact but tightens evidentiary requirements and discards the death penalty which, most of us agree, is far too extreme a punishment.

- It is easy to blame the mullahs, and they certainly deserve much of the blame, but the fault also lies with lax law enforcement. If the police and legal system were doing their job, then frivolous cases involving this law would never be filed and the law would remain true to its spirit, which is to address deliberate, mean spirited attacks on the Prophet (pbuh). We should view this in the same context as slander/libel laws around the world: the severity of the offense depends on the material published as well as the size of the audience. One guy insulting the Prophect (pbuh) in private conversation is one thing; the same guy publishing cartoons on a popular media channel is quite another. (And, yes, the same Danish hypocrites who shouted freedom of speech at the Mohammad cartoons then went on to harass and unsuccessfully prosecute two Arabs for publishing cartoons about the Holocaust.)

 

[muse]

It is easy to blame the mullahs, and they certainly deserve much of the blame, but the fault also lies with lax law enforcement. If the police and legal system were doing their job, then frivolous cases involving this law would never be filed

I think we would all take your point, however, lets be realistic, the people who exert pressure on police are Mullahs and landlords - police are not immune from such pressure - also note that such abuses are generally reported from rural settings, where Mullah and landlord have even greater political power and influence.

Bottom line is that these laws are highly susceptible to abuse - does that in itself not suggest we revisit the notion of these laws.

Some have argued that the removal of these laws would usher in a secular Pakistan -- unfortunately, it will not - these laws are no where in the constitution and not until ladeeiyat is replaced by Ilmaniyat in the public consciousness will such a change come about .

 

[TARIQ BN ZIYAAD]

T.T Muse

assalam alaikum

I didnot call my self platou, i can misunderstand things, i never mention the west in my posts

what i take on u ppl all the laws r misused why only this whole noise for this law just only 1400 hundered cases registered according to this law over the span of how many years and most of the registerd cases r against muslims

ok i give u an alternative why dont u stop misusing of those other laws and make ppl like me quite and there r many like me? There r maybe 100 thousand of false cases registered and ppl abused by the police and got accused by the accusing parties do something about it and i m all the way with u
sherry rehman should lead a drive to provide justice for the ppl of pakistan and when we she is seen sincere for her cause ppl will listen to her more carefully buy the sympathy of masses. win the confidence of the common person is it hard to do?

TARIQ

 

[Developereo]

Bottom line is that these laws are highly susceptible to abuse - does that in itself not suggest we revisit the notion of these laws.

I agree this particular law needs to be tightened (the amendment tries to do that), but all laws are susceptible to abuse.

Look at the anti-terrorism laws in the West to report suspicious activity. Anybody with any grudge against a 'funny looking furriner' or even a white person can call up a hotline and file a 'tip'. And these hotlines are anoymous, which makes them ripe for abuse. Yet they manage to work for the most part because the law enforcement apparatus is competent and properly safeguarded.

I think the greatest benefit to Pakistan will come from reforming our law enforcement system to achieve parity with developed countries. This will prove more fruitful than chasing individual issues like blasphemy law, hudood law, corruption, tax evasion, child abuse, etc.

 

[Jigs]

Ahan !

so how does this policy of slapping a ban, or controlling the "free" will of Mullah via government schools differ from brain washing and force feeding ?

The slapping a ban part is quite normal. Try bringing communism to the democratic U.S. and see what happens.


As for the brain washing Imam Hatip schools which Imams go to for education it teaches them Arabic/Islam along with all the regular subjects other universities teach. So you don't come out preaching Wahabi or some other extremism nonsense to the masses and you also actually know mathematics and science etc. Also we don't do mullahs they are not a creation that is supported at all in Turkey.

 

[black_magic pk]

mr turkey doesnt like the ways of pakistanis???

 

[Farooq]

The secularists are so blinded by hatred for religion, especially Islam that even though within their heart of hearts they know that Islamic system of governance is the only system of prosperity and yet they oppose it. Hence, this explains their deep seeded hatred for Ulema, Mullahs, religious people or anything or anyone associated with Islam.

Had these clowns lived in the time of the Sahaba -e- Ikram (Radi Allah unho) they would have opposed them and sided with the enemies of Islam as they have done today. There is no point in arguing with or convincing these twisted and demented people.

 

[Farooq]

I agree this particular law needs to be tightened (the amendment tries to do that), but all laws are susceptible to abuse.

Look at the anti-terrorism laws in the West to report suspicious activity. Anybody with any grudge against a 'funny looking furriner' or even a white person can call up a hotline and file a 'tip'. And these hotlines are anoymous, which makes them ripe for abuse. Yet they manage to work for the most part because the law enforcement apparatus is competent and properly safeguarded.

I think the greatest benefit to Pakistan will come from reforming our law enforcement system to achieve parity with developed countries. This will prove more fruitful than chasing individual issues like blasphemy law, hudood law, corruption, tax evasion, child abuse, etc.

Dev,

I agree. One can falsely accuse anyone of any crime whether it be murder, robbery, corruption, blasphemy, etc. Therefore, abolishing the punishments to the crime wouldn't work, such as removing the blasphemy law. For justice to prevail and for the innocent to be protected (Muslims or non-Muslim), we should reform our investigating procedures and court system in order to ensure that an innocent individual is not wrongly punished.

Moreover, if the accuser has been proven to falsely accuse the other party he should very well be punished. The problem is that the secularists amongst us are singling out the blasphemy law and ignoring all the other laws that are abused everyday in Pakistan.

 

[Khalid_sdt]

Its not an issue of whether something is wrong with it or not, it has to do with our failure to implement it properly and fairly. When you do not have the mechanisms to impose a law, you need to have some room and leeway in its implementation and even interpretation (E.g. Umar RA temporarily abrogating punishment for theft due to famine). This is something that our people would understand and it is the obligation of real religious scholars (and not sellouts such as Fazlur Rehman) to point out and educate the masses on. Either we do this and/or pursue the easier task of funding and kicking the law enforcement agencies in the butt so they do a better job of investigating such issues and where excesses are found, prosecute the accusers in a manner that it becomes a lesson for all.

I doubt the Prophet of God (Pbuh) would like this tamasha to be made in his name where every Tom, Dick and Harry or village imams and their cohorts are calling out their adversaries for denigrating the Prophet for material gains and power and innocent people are being affected. No other Muslim country has such an issue.

how many other laws in Pakistan are implemented fairly and properly, we all know the answer. So shall we follow your advice wrt all other laws. "you need to have some room and leeway in its implementation and even interpretation".

 

[Khalid_sdt]

"Thousands rally"

"Total Shut Down"

Looks like the blasphemy laws have real support among the masses. Quite contrary to what our Pakistani friends would have us believe.

a couple of secular Pakistani friends in this forum doesn't represent the Pakistani masses. Yes, the blasphemy law has real support and the shutter down strike was out of free will and not due to any threat as some are trying to make some believe.

it's our right and we exercised this right, if some people are feeling the pain, they always have the option to go on roads and protest against the blasphemy law.