Should India spend Rs 1000cr on a single fighter jet?

[帅的一匹]

Some Indian members thinking are too naive. full TOT of engine? Never happens.

 

[sincity]

India think by buying some jet from the French, France will turn over their complete jet production to the Indian, yea let teach India to build 4 generation fighter jet and in the future France will lost business to India with cheaper and 2nd hand production Rafael deal to other nation.

 

[帅的一匹]

France doesn't have 5th gen fighter plan, no one will TOT its best inventory without reservation. Very simple to understand.

 

[Fahad Khan 2]

France doesn't have 5th gen fighter plan, no one will TOT its best inventory without reservation. Very simple to understand.

That's what I was trying to explain them... But we Asians start jumping even before baby born and plan it's entire life from birth to death.....

 

[HariPrasad]

My question for you is "What would you do for next 20 years without any aircraft? AMCA is a big joke still in papers."

We shall start inducting Super sukhoi before we can induct rafale. Delivery of PAKFA will start bt 2017-18.

 

[li0nheart]

I seriously doubt that the 1000 corore planes being discussed in this thread are the blackberries of the defense world.

But you may know better than me.

Who knows.

I was not comparing Rafale with Blackberry in respect of valuation or capabilities, but due to the fact that French are not able to find any customers other than IAF for Rafale. Just like Blackberry.
Both have capabilities, but alas no buyers! I hope I have made my point clear...

 

[faithfulguy]

hahahahhaah

full TOT on assembly of components

hahahahahaah


Well said.

very well


OK so you buy kits from country X
They tell you how to put the kit together

you say

aha aha aha

I got the TOT on assembling the kit

you dance and prance

Got tot
totooooooooo
toooooooooo]
totooooooooo


Do you my bro

realize that you just made up your own forking definition for TOT

Do you

Do you




Oh come on bud

Who are you kidding.

who the heck are you kidding.

ToT of engine tech.

not in million year.



Please understand the concept of TOT first.

you are making a mockery of the very definition of TOT

Please

do not do that

do not treat us as if we are all sitting in a 5th grade class.

Thank you.

I respect you

and I expect you

respect all of us enough to not do this mumbo jumbo.

Thank you.

We all know what complete TOT of. But the French is offer what I've above for TOT of Rafale. So its not me who is mocking. But its the French that is mocking the India. They don't do it subtle enough. So Indian caught on and decided not to sign the deal. I don't see an solution for this. So watch for india to cancel the project. India probably would demand a decrease in price per unit and just let the French assemble it with minimum transfer of tech. That would be the smart thing to do as French do not want to part with their most critical technology.

India could hold another tender. But than the result would not be known in another 5 years. By then, the 5th generation plane would be in the horizon. So the best solution is for India to forget about complete TOT. Get partial TOT but get better prices. Also, get more planes off the shelf.

 

[帅的一匹]

I would rather buy some F35A from shelf by spending so much. Don't know how much kickback Indian top brass get in this deal. The so called TOT is just another trick HAL cheating tax payers money. They always do it. Even though I am not an Indian, I don't believe these Engine/radar TOT bull crap.

 

[Kiss_of_the_Dragon]

it's so hillarious that Indians think to use the Rafale as answer to counter Chinese airforce, by the time you get its fully assemble and operational, China, Japan, Korea, western nations will already operate the 5th gen fighters. Sure France is smart enought to have a good technology timeline calcution, knowing that 4th gen will soon to be obsoleited so they want to milk India as quick as possible before the windows of opportunity is closed...with this good chunk of money (20-25 billions), they can reinvest on 5th gen fighter and other UAV.

And don't expect that France will TOT everthing over night, they will drag their feets to milks India further until the retirement of the Rafale. I'm pretty sure that overhall cost will far excede 20 to 25 billions: the spare parts, maintenance, repair, consultation, modification, mid-life upgrade, weapons package...all these are the good feasts $$$$$ to be enjoyed with Champagne...Vivre la France

 

[sincity]

We all know what complete TOT of. But the French is offer what I've above for TOT of Rafale. So its not me who is mocking. But its the French that is mocking the India. They don't do it subtle enough. So Indian caught on and decided not to sign the deal. I don't see an solution for this. So watch for india to cancel the project. India probably would demand a decrease in price per unit and just let the French assemble it with minimum transfer of tech. That would be the smart thing to do as French do not want to part with their most critical technology.

India could hold another tender. But than the result would not be known in another 5 years. By then, the 5th generation plane would be in the horizon. So the best solution is for India to forget about complete TOT. Get partial TOT but get better prices. Also, get more planes off the shelf.

India want to learn how to manufacture 5 generation aircraft with the help of the Russian producing stealth technology and the France to provide a complete TOT the technology expertise on 4 generation fighter jet with engine and radar in the deal. With the know how to build a 4 generation of fighter jet add on to stealth coating and powerful engine and radar, India can manufacture themselves a 5 generation fighter jet. Both Russian and France will lose out future business to India and India will no longer need to buy any fighter jet from the Russian or France.

 

[M.AsfandYar]

Bullcrap... 1000 crores a piece means more than 150 millions... That cant be... Even the flyaway cost of F22 is 150 million...

Its around US$100 million.

 

[帅的一匹]

The only solution is to improve relationship with China, the Rafale deal for me is a joke.

India want to learn how to manufacture 5 generation aircraft with the help of the Russian producing stealth technology and the France to provide a complete TOT the technology expertise on 4 generation fighter jet with engine and radar in the deal. With the know how to build a 4 generation of fighter jet add on to stealth coating and powerful engine and radar, India can manufacture themselves a 5 generation fighter jet. Both Russian and France will lose out future business to India and India will no longer need to buy any fighter jet from the Russian or France.

Very naive thinking. You have to be on your own in the end. If there is Fully TOT, maybe 20 years later when Rafale is completely obsolete.

 

[HariPrasad]

Very costly plane infact too expensive.

Too late should acquire UAE mirages and Qatar mirages. For fraction of the cost. For stop gap til 2020.

Get pak fa and fgfa in next decade.

Concentrate on lca tejas upgrade mki to super mki

It was a time when India needed mirage but now Tejas is getting ready. It has batter thrust to weight ratio than Mirage. Once Mk2 is ready, It will outclass Mirage in all departments. So Mirage is not required now. What we need is to steep up the production of Tejas and expedite the R & D of AMCA and Tejas MK3 (stealth).

 

[sincity]

The only solution is to improve relationship with China, the Rafale deal for me is a joke.


Very naive thinking. You have to be on your own in the end. If there is Fully TOT, maybe 20 years later when Rafale is completely obsolete.

Probably so but 4 generation technology not much different from the 5 generation technology except for stealth coating and the shape of the jet. France not so naive to turn over a complete production of Rafael to India, they rather India be a loyal customer and will buy future jet from France.

 

[帅的一匹]

It was a time when India needed mirage but now Tejas is getting ready. It has batter thrust to weight ratio than Mirage. Once Mk2 is ready, It will outclass Mirage in all departments. So Mirage is not required now. What we need is to steep up the production of Tejas and expedite the R & D of AMCA and Tejas MK3 (stealth).

Buying Rafale won't help India in the long run. They don't trust HAL, you make it a swollow for them. Mirage is a far more mature platform than LCA MK1, at least pay some respect to the Veteran.

Those Indian pilots would rather fly those old Mirage than the 'mighty' LCA, you have to admit it.

I was not comparing Rafale with Blackberry in respect of valuation or capabilities, but due to the fact that French are not able to find any customers other than IAF for Rafale. Just like Blackberry.
Both have capabilities, but alas no buyers! I hope I have made my point clear...

Few countries in the world can afford the price of Rafale, not to mention in such huge quantity. The reason why blackberry falls in the market is because it lacks cost effectiveness. Rafale is good for IAF fire power, but Dassault won't give you critical tech no to mention TOT. The best you could achieve is like SU30MKI assemblhy line. They take you for granted as cash cow because you don't have the ability to reverse enginner it by yourself, you are lazy people.

The only chance you have is France president become an idiot. Am i clear?