Sheikh Mujib on independence

[YeBeWarned]

Do not please spit at the sky. It will fall upon your face. You are cursing a nation whom you bullied to the core and now cursing it. 1971 was a happy ending against a people who are not willing to develop their country.

i spit on traitors like mujeeb and Bhutto ..

 

[Cliftonite]

These are all valid nuanced points, but point is ....is Mujib a traitor? (for this poll/thread)

Traitor is very black/white issue. If George Washington side lost (and it really didnt look good for them for the longest part of the war if you study it), he would be remembered as a traitor.

But his side prevailed and won and now he is remembered as great revolutionary, general, founding father, president etc.

Washington had a past in service with British Army actually (I'll spare you the details but he actually arguably did a big role in starting a major bloody war with France in the area, whom later was his biggest ally when he turned against British) that is often overlooked by those who think his only history starts with US war of independence.

Your and other criticisms of Mujib is similar to criticisms given on Mao (Mao made many grievous mistakes in his rule of China). But I don't think anyone would call Mao a Traitor...given he did fight a war to establish the pre-eminent Chinese political state in modern times. Neither would any reasonable Indian call Nehru a traitor whatever mistakes he made during his tenure.

Simply put, most Pakistanis would see Mujib as a traitor (esp given something was pushed all in and blood was put on the line and spilled on it...hurt and pain and psyche damage sustains it).

But most Bangladeshis would see him the exact reverse (1st leader, political founder and "friend of Bengal").

It is my impression (and this is getting me increasingly in conflict with some Pakistani members here) that Mujib also did his level best to preserve the political union (he definitely believed in Pakistan original concept), given he won that election fair and square and should have been PM of all of Pakistan.

I personally would not call him traitor even from Pakistani perspective tbh...rather the West Pakistani political elite + military elite were traitors to (esp democratic system of) Pakistan, especially the actions they later did (to innocent people at vast scale) after rejecting and voiding the democratic result.

@Cliftonite may be one of the few Pakistanis in this forum to agree, when he is back from his ban. Let us see.

@Joe Shearer @itsanufy

I have been reading up on the fall of Dhaka. And I agree with you. Mujeeb wasn't a traitor. Bhutto was. Just 6 years before 1971, he was out there campaigning for the matriarch of our nation, Fatima Jinnah. A traitor cannot do that. He was very active in the Pakistan movement. Again not something a traitor would do.


To all the Bangladeshis on the thread, we may have had our fallout but your Bongobondhu has my full respect, for when the Ayub Bhutto duo was out maligning Fatima Jinnah, he was there campaigning for her as her polling agent. That is something a true patriot would do.

 

[Kamikaze Pilot]

I have been reading up on the fall of Dhaka. And I agree with you. Mujeeb wasn't a traitor. Bhutto was. Just 6 years before 1971, he was out there campaigning for the matriarch of our nation, Fatima Jinnah. A traitor cannot do that. He was very active in the Pakistan movement. Again not something a traitor would do.


To all the Bangladeshis on the thread, we may have had our fallout but your Bongobondhu has my full respect, for when the Ayub Bhutto duo was out maligning Fatima Jinnah, he was there campaigning for her as her polling agent. That is something a true patriot would do.

Welcome back yaara!!

- PRTP GWD

 

[Cliftonite]

The poll was unnecessary in my opinion, the thread itself is fine.

This is a matter of national history and strife any Pakistani who doesn't vote "yes", must be a special one.
To Pakistan Mujib is a traitor and that is fine, they're entitled to feel however they want to about him.

As for Bangladeshis bashing Mujib on here, be glad we are Independent, show some respect instead of bashing him.

The man had his faults, but don't we all. At least he did as he said and gave us our own country.

I don't see him as a traitor. Rather a patriot during the Pakistan movement. And I commend him for standing by his people all throughout. This will not win me any favor with my countrymen but it's very foolish to claim Mujeeb and AL suddenly turned traitors. When ethnic politics is played for too long and a period of subjugation of one ethnicity over another is carried out, things get ugly. Especially when the dam bursts finally. I can draw parallels between the mindless vigilante violence that haunted the poor Biharis and stranded West Pakistan in 1971 and the killing of a young Urdu speaking girl Bushra Zaidi in 1985 in Karachi which unleashed the ethnic wars that scarred the city through the next 2 decades. Lots of innocent non Muhajirs were killed in the ensuing violence throughout the decades following that. The dam of Muhajir suppression had finally burst, like the Bengali dam in 1971. It was the ruling administration's job to have quelled these feelings of ethnic hatred when they first started showing it's ugly head.

 

[El Sidd]

Welcome back yaara!!

- PRTP GWD

Eid Mubarak

 

[Kamikaze Pilot]

Eid Mubarak

Why do you mistake me to be a miyaan? @Soumitra

- PRTP GWD

 

[El Sidd]

Why do you mistake me to be a miyaan? @Soumitra

- PRTP GWD

You share the same fassadi tendencies

 

[bluesky]

i spit on traitors like mujeeb and Bhutto ..

Your Yahya kept Mujib in the Layalpur jail without giving him an opportunity to fight in 1971. Yet, to you he is a traitor. Like Yahya there was another traitor. It was ZA Bhutto who tore a compromise paper in an UN session on 14 December 1971. Why he did it was because the compromise formula called for a cease fire and IA troop withdrawal.

It did not suit Bhutto because it would allow Mujib, and not him, to become the PM of a united Pakistan. Yahya and Bhutto were the two villains in 1971 who undermined the election results and wanted to share power between them.

 

[Michael Corleone]

Your Yahya kept Mujib in the Layalpur jail without giving him an opportunity to fight in 1971. Yet, to you he is a traitor. Like Yahya there was another traitor. It was ZA Bhutto who tore a compromise paper in an UN session on 14 December 1971. Why he did it was because the compromise formula called for a cease fire and IA troop withdrawal.

It did not suit Bhutto because it would allow Mujib, and not him, to become the PM of a united Pakistan. Yahya and Bhutto were the two villains in 1971 who undermined the election results and wanted to share power between them.

True. I’m surprised some Pakistanis have misplaced anger on mujib for no reason. Bangladesh would still have been East Pakistan had Bhutto not tore off that and boycotted the UN
Like I said, the biggest enemies of Pakistan isn’t India or Hindus but their own people

 

[Cliftonite]

True. I’m surprised some Pakistanis have misplaced anger on mujib for no reason. Bangladesh would still have been East Pakistan had Bhutto not tore off that and boycotted the UN
Like I said, the biggest enemies of Pakistan isn’t India or Hindus but their own people

I am on your side in this whole issue. But how would Bhutto (may he rot in hell) not tearing that have prevented the breaking of the country? All it would have done would have enforced a ceasefire. There had already been a 9 month operation. I doubt the Bengalis would have wanted to live together with their murderers ever again. United Pakistan was irredeemable by then.

 

[Michael Corleone]

I am on your side in this whole issue. But how would Bhutto (may he rot in hell) not tearing that have prevented the breaking of the country? All it would have done would have enforced a ceasefire. There had already been a 9 month operation. I doubt the Bengalis would have wanted to live together with their murderers ever again. United Pakistan was irredeemable by then.

True, unless the military completely stepped down, Bhutto and yahya ousted, many reforms to keep military where it belongs and mujib coming in power... but these are big ifs that would be impossible... in one or the other way atleast East Pakistan would have had more autonomy and stayed in a Union with west with two central governments.

 

[bluesky]

True, unless the military completely stepped down, Bhutto and yahya ousted, many reforms to keep military where it belongs and mujib coming in power... but these are big ifs that would be impossible... in one or the other way atleast East Pakistan would have had more autonomy and stayed in a Union with west with two central governments.

I do not think there would have been so many ousts. Important things after a ceasefire was to sit together under the UN banner and sort out a new relationship acceptable to the parties of two wings.

However, Bhutto tore the compromise paper down on fear that it might cause an united Pakistan where he would not be able to rise to power. He was too greedy, destroyed the Muslim unity in our region and lost also his own life.

 

[DalalErMaNodi]

Muslim unity in our region

Bhai, what are you smoking today ?

For something to break or be destroyed as you put it, said thing or item needs to exist in the first place.

What does not exist cannot be destroyed. The perception of existence is not proof of its existence, no matter what it means for us in the end.

It doesn't exist, never has and never will, especially not between us and them. We are nothing but polar opposites, and you'll even see some Pakistanis admitting it at times, when they need to distance themselves from us.



The incidence of Bhutto ripping the document up, might be passed off as irrelevant but it's not. It was a highly symbolic gesture and without a shred of doubt, it played on the minds of people on our side of the border.

 

[bluesky]

Bhai, what are you smoking today ?

For something to break or be destroyed as you put it, said thing or item needs to exist in the first place.

What does not exist cannot be destroyed. The perception of existence is not proof of its existence, no matter what it means for us in the end.

It doesn't exist, never has and never will, especially not between us and them. We are nothing but polar opposites, and you'll even see some Pakistanis admitting it at times, when they need to distance themselves from us.

The incidence of Bhutto ripping the document up, might be passed off as irrelevant but it's not. It was a highly symbolic gesture and without a shred of doubt, it played on the minds of people on our side of the border.

Even in March 1971 no one in east was against a united Pakistan. East wanted its due share but not to break Pakistan. Carefully listen to the unedited version of Mujib's 7 March speech. He and no one else uttered "Pakistan Murdabad". He actually finished his brilliant speech with two slogans, "Joy Bangla" and "Joy Pakistan". BAL has edted the Joy Pakistan portion to suit its political interest.

Population in the west were also similarly wanted a united Pakistan. However, the Vadere, Jagirdars and Nawabs and politicians coming out from them were short-sighted and self-centered. Without their conspiracy to punish the east, Pakistan would have remained united.

They started going against east when it dismantled the Zamindari here. This alarmed them that Bengalis in power also would oust them from their privileges. This is how conspiracy against Bengalis started in 1948. They still remain the local power after breaking with the east.

However, I do not regret the 1971 outcome. I am just talking about the historical points.

 

[itsanufy]

I don't see him as a traitor. Rather a patriot during the Pakistan movement. And I commend him for standing by his people all throughout. This will not win me any favor with my countrymen but it's very foolish to claim Mujeeb and AL suddenly turned traitors. When ethnic politics is played for too long and a period of subjugation of one ethnicity over another is carried out, things get ugly. Especially when the dam bursts finally. I can draw parallels between the mindless vigilante violence that haunted the poor Biharis and stranded West Pakistan in 1971 and the killing of a young Urdu speaking girl Bushra Zaidi in 1985 in Karachi which unleashed the ethnic wars that scarred the city through the next 2 decades. Lots of innocent non Muhajirs were killed in the ensuing violence throughout the decades following that. The dam of Muhajir suppression had finally burst, like the Bengali dam in 1971. It was the ruling administration's job to have quelled these feelings of ethnic hatred when they first started showing it's ugly head.

I don't see him as a traitor. Rather a patriot during the Pakistan movement. And I commend him for standing by his people all throughout. This will not win me any favor with my countrymen but it's very foolish to claim Mujeeb and AL suddenly turned traitors. When ethnic politics is played for too long and a period of subjugation of one ethnicity over another is carried out, things get ugly. Especially when the dam bursts finally. I can draw parallels between the mindless vigilante violence that haunted the poor Biharis and stranded West Pakistan in 1971 and the killing of a young Urdu speaking girl Bushra Zaidi in 1985 in Karachi which unleashed the ethnic wars that scarred the city through the next 2 decades. Lots of innocent non Muhajirs were killed in the ensuing violence throughout the decades following that. The dam of Muhajir suppression had finally burst, like the Bengali dam in 1971. It was the ruling administration's job to have quelled these feelings of ethnic hatred when they first started showing it's ugly head.

Without Mujib vast tracts of lands would have gone to India.
Traitor is again a relative term, traitor for one might be hero for other.
Surely he is a hero for BD.