'Mujib: The Making of a Nation' releases today in 200 halls

[Bilal9]

I never said they weren't bangladeshi. I said they are not Bengalee. Saying they are not Bengalee does not mean someone is not Bangladeshi. They have Bangladeshi nationality, and that's where it ends. They have had to hide their heritage since 1971 out of FEAR.

Unfortunately, you don't know any of them, so you wouldn't know. If DM facility was available, I would gladly introduce you to them on social media and the efforts they are engaging in to raise awareness of their people and dhakaiya urdu. Bangla being Lingua Franca is debatable as it would be rare for anyone of them to speak even conversational level Bangla (pre 1971). Prime Minister Nizamuddin had to have his speeches translated into Bangla which is common knowledge.

Bangla language movement has come full circle and now multiple movement for recognition of indigenous languages of BD are taking off vying for recognition. Not state recognition, but recognition that they are not a lower, corrupted form of Bangla. We are not Bengalee. The bangla language movement was nothing more than a ethnic fascist language supremacist movement led by useful idiots to give some form of rationalisation for breaking Pakistan. @IndianLite

Whether you know Hindustani is irrelevant.

Bengali-speaking Bangladeshis are probably the most liberal and least fascist (even in terms of language) in the subcontinent.

Whatever axe you have to grind, grind away.

Every Bangladeshi says something is white, then you come here and say it is black. I don't think I have heard any Bengali speaker in Bangladesh look down on someone just because they spoke a different language. @saif and @VikingRaider bhais what do you think?

In fact I see many Bangla speakers take an interest to speak other languages and preserve indigenous languages. Textbooks for Chakma, Marma and Tripura people printed in their indigenous languages were given in tribal areas.

Indigenous students of Bangladesh get books in mother tongue

Sometimes even the Bangladesh government makes some tiny symbolic gesture, yet appreciated, in favor of the country's indigenous people. This year’s

erosbonazzi.altervista.org

You are entitled to your opinion. However you may be painting with too broad a brush painting all Bengali-speakers as ethno-fascist villains.

I recently watched a few documentaries on Sheikh Mujib. My intention is not to upset any of our Bangladeshi brothers and sisters but rather to share different perspctives on the circumstances that led to his tragic assassination. These documentaries offer insights from two distinct, non-Bangladeshi viewpoints, shedding light on the complex events surrounding this historical incident.

The dead are all six feet under, and what is done is done.

Sheikh's death gave his daughter an opportunity to suck the country dry - to the tune of Billions of dollars.

It is a sad commentary that she won't meet the same fate as her father.

Bangladesh is much more of a rule-of-law place now and she is protected by Indians.

I was told by family that after the Sheikh family deaths, no one in Bangladesh shed a tear or came out on the streets.

The Sheikh was ultimately responsible for his and his family's fate, he allowed his sycophants and family members run amuck.

He brought this on - himself. It's all history now.

 

[saif]

Primary objective of Bangladesh is to preserve the Muslim identity of East Bengal. It is not to preserve the Bangla language!!!

I am a Muslim first, Bangladeshi second. What about you @IndianLite?

 

[Dr.Nick Riviera]

Bangla and Bangladeshi are not synonymous.

Just as English and British are not synonymous. Welsh and Irish have their own language but are British.

Bangladeshi is the Muslim culture of East Bengal.

Bangladeshi is a cultural identity not a linguistic identity.

Bloody Hinduvta chetona buggers want to restrict Bangladeshi to the Bangla language.

Bangladesh was born out of the need to have a separate homeland for Muslims of east Bengal.

To preserve and safeguard their Muslim identity. Not to safeguard Bangla!!!

I still maintain Bangladesh’s civil service and academic language should have been English.

With Urdu and Bangla maintained as mother tongues.

Primary objective of Bangladesh is to preserve the Muslim identity of East Bengal. It is not to preserve the Bangla language!!!

The "chetona club", as you term them burned down all the syloti nagri printing presses in 1971. Syloti as well as Chatgaiya and other indigenous languages have been under siege by the bongos since 1971. Under the shadow of their narcissism of victimhood they have been slowly erasing all other indigenous languages and ethnic groups.

Separation should of happened peacefully and I'm pretty sure their were no organised militias to take on the PA - Group Captain AK Khondokar confirmed this.

Only militants hanging around were traitors who answered to New Delhi working to escalate the situation beyond the control of our political leadership - and that's exactly what happened.

Gen. Osmani knew this and most probably saw this unfolding in front of his eyes which why he made it very difficult for the IA to work with him. To further confirm Gen. Osmani knew all this was going were his actions after the war - he openly protected loyalist EP military officers and declared he would court martial anyone who would dare not salute them.

And now witness the result....we all bongos.

 

[Species]

I never said they weren't bangladeshi. I said they are not Bengalee. Saying they are not Bengalee does not mean someone is not Bangladeshi. They have Bangladeshi nationality, and that's where it ends. They have had to hide their heritage since 1971 out of FEAR.

Unfortunately, you don't know any of them, so you wouldn't know. If DM facility was available, I would gladly introduce you to them on social media and the efforts they are engaging in to raise awareness of their people and dhakaiya urdu. Bangla being Lingua Franca is debatable as it would be rare for anyone of them to speak even conversational level Bangla (pre 1971). Prime Minister Nizamuddin had to have his speeches translated into Bangla which is common knowledge.

Bangla language movement has come full circle and now multiple movement for recognition of indigenous languages of BD are taking off vying for recognition. Not state recognition, but recognition that they are not a lower, corrupted form of Bangla. We are not Bengalee. The bangla language movement was nothing more than a ethnic fascist language supremacist movement led by useful idiots to give some form of rationalisation for breaking Pakistan. @IndianLite

Whether you know Hindustani is irrelevant.

Your knowledge about Bangladeshi society and its history is quite superficial tbh, you need to study more before forming an opinion.

First of all, Bengalis are not as homogenous as you might think, be that genetics or even linguistics. What binds them together is a certain common culture: they pretty much eat the same food, and follow certain common traditions and customs. Add to that, a largely common history, at least for the last few centuries. Besides, unlike India and Pakistan, Bangladeshi society is not that endogamous so that also contributes,

Bengali identity is subjective and also adoptive to some extent. The earliest proponents of Bengali identity were the Sultans of Bengal who themselves had Turko-Afghan origin. In Bangladesh, you are a Bengali as long as you call yourself a Bengali.

The Ahsan Manzil family you are talking about easily falls within this definition of Bengali, hardly anything to do with 1971. They always identified with Bengali identity if you follow their pre-1947 political activities.

Dhakaiya Urdu is largely a hybrid of Urdu and Bangla, and owes its development to the distinct history of Dhaka city built by the Mughals. And it's not only limited to the Ahsan Manzil family rather spoken by the native Dhakaiyas in general.

Bengali language movement had more to do with economics than nationalism. Urdu was more alien to the people of Bengal than Punjab or Sindh because the British deliberately encouraged and patronized the practice of Urdu among Punjabi Muslims but never did that with Bengali Muslims and there are reasons behind it (different topic though). Yet there were pockets of Urdu speakers in Bengal who were mostly Aligarh alumni and typically belonged to elite zamindar families. It was more like what Latin was to medieval Europe.

 

[IndianLite]

I am a Muslim first, Bangladeshi second. What about you @IndianLite?

Even a Bangladeshi educated lad like you can work that out!

If not, you are another garments trader

 

[IndianLite]

Your knowledge about Bangladeshi society and its history is quite superficial tbh, you need to study more before forming an opinion.

First of all, Bengalis are not as homogenous as you might think, be that genetics or even linguistics. What binds them together is a certain common culture: they pretty much eat the same food, and follow certain common traditions and customs. Add to that, a largely common history, at least for the last few centuries. Besides, unlike India and Pakistan, Bangladeshi society is not that endogamous so that also contributes,

Bengali identity is subjective and also adoptive to some extent. The earliest proponents of Bengali identity were the Sultans of Bengal who themselves had Turko-Afghan origin. In Bangladesh, you are a Bengali as long as you call yourself a Bengali.

The Ahsan Manzil family you are talking about easily falls within this definition of Bengali, hardly anything to do with 1971. They always identified with Bengali identity if you follow their pre-1947 political activities.

Dhakaiya Urdu is largely a hybrid of Urdu and Bangla, and owes its development to the distinct history of Dhaka city built by the Mughals. And it's not only limited to the Ahsan Manzil family rather spoken by the native Dhakaiyas in general.

Bengali language movement had more to do with economics than nationalism. Urdu was more alien to the people of Bengal than Punjab or Sindh because the British deliberately encouraged and patronized the practice of Urdu among Punjabi Muslims but never did that with Bengali Muslims and there are reasons behind it (different topic though). Yet there were pockets of Urdu speakers in Bengal who were mostly Aligarh alumni and typically belonged to elite zamindar families. It was more like what Latin was to medieval Europe.

To me Bangladeshi means Mughal Muslim identity.

As you say, regardless of the language and dialect spoken, what binds Bangladeshis is the moderate Muslim identity.

However, that identity has been under attack since 1952. With the myths around the idiots who died over a pointless and self defeating protest.

If Bangladesh had adopted English as the civil service and academic language - it would now be a genuine Asian tiger.

Adoption of a primitive language has held Bangladesh back and will continue to hold it back.

Bangladesh needs to assert and promote its glorious Bengal Sultanate history and identity. Instead of promoting the backward Hinduvta identity.

It starts by ditching the idiotic national anthem and stupid flag.

Adopt the Bengal Sultanate flag and one of the many patriotic songs as the anthem.

@Dr.Nick Riviera

 

[Bilal9]

The Ahsan Manzil family you are talking about easily falls within this definition of Bengali, hardly anything to do with 1971. They always identified with Bengali identity if you follow their pre-1947 political activities.

That is what I was trying to tell this guy. I personally know educated members of the Ahsan Manzil family and other old-culture families in Dhaka. Although they do speak chosht Lakhnavi Urdu at home (which was, and remains a common tradition in educated Muslim families like the Suhrawardis from Calcutta as well - dating from Murshidabad times) - this does not mean that they do not speak Bangla in public with people like myself, that is impractical.

In fact I have been trying to pick up Urdu from these same Urdu-speaking friends - slow progress.

The culture of educated Muslim families in all of India at the time was to adopt Lakhnavi Urdu as common language, starting from Murshidabad, to Hyderabad, Kolkata and yes, even Dhaka. But I know Hyderabadi Muslims also speak Telegu and Dhaka's old Muslim families now speak Bangla,

Why there should be issues I do not know. Some people are trying to "invent" issues. No one is trying to "impose" a language...

Many of the Dhaka folks who speak Urdu at home are (like you said) limited to old Dhaka neighborhoods, belong to Shi'i Islam as a religion - which does not mean that their children have not ventured beyond their usual environs. These people are just as big a part of the cultural milieu we call Bangladeshi and they all speak Bangla in public as a rule. Ditto for most Sylhotis and Chatgaias.

I can see veiled attempt to drive wedges between us Bangladeshis by outsiders using various cultural and linguistic tropes - but ours is already a small country, this is pointless. Outsiders gain advantages when they can succeed in dividing us.

If people do not like Bengalis, they can stop speaking Bangla and not come into Bangladesh, as easy as that. One cannot expect us to change our common language for some.

Bangladesh is not a multicultural place, it is far more homogenous than other places in South Asia. Which I'd say is a great strength. Some Indians are after it, that is all.

 

[Bilal9]

The "chetona club", as you term them burned down all the syloti nagri printing presses in 1971. Syloti as well as Chatgaiya and other indigenous languages have been under siege by the bongos since 1971. Under the shadow of their narcissism of victimhood they have been slowly erasing all other indigenous languages and ethnic groups.

Is this something you've heard - or is this factual? First I am hearing of this.

 

[Bilal9]

I never said they weren't bangladeshi. I said they are not Bengalee. Saying they are not Bengalee does not mean someone is not Bangladeshi. They have Bangladeshi nationality, and that's where it ends. They have had to hide their heritage since 1971 out of FEAR.

Unfortunately, you don't know any of them, so you wouldn't know. If DM facility was available, I would gladly introduce you to them on social media and the efforts they are engaging in to raise awareness of their people and dhakaiya urdu. Bangla being Lingua Franca is debatable as it would be rare for anyone of them to speak even conversational level Bangla (pre 1971). Prime Minister Nizamuddin had to have his speeches translated into Bangla which is common knowledge.

Bangla language movement has come full circle and now multiple movement for recognition of indigenous languages of BD are taking off vying for recognition. Not state recognition, but recognition that they are not a lower, corrupted form of Bangla. We are not Bengalee. The bangla language movement was nothing more than a ethnic fascist language supremacist movement led by useful idiots to give some form of rationalisation for breaking Pakistan. @IndianLite

Whether you know Hindustani is irrelevant.

I have Sylheti people in my family and some claim they are not Bengali either (!), but they come to our dawats and celebrate with us at Bengali new year, Eid, Shab-e-barat, Mezbaan and weddings just the same. And they speak Bangla!

When India and Bangladesh got divided, some Sylhetis remained in Karimganj and Silchar in Assam.

Maybe Sylhetis complaining now should have remained in those areas - remained Assamese, instead of mixing with us inferior Bengalis.

Most of my Sylheti relatives are doing fine in Bangladesh, they are in the foreign service or captains of large companies and industry. I don't think they'd find it so great if some Sylhetis tried to tell them to move to Assam, which is being ruled by Muslim hater BJP party.

This is the dilemma of some uneducated Sylhetis as I see it. They are trying to preserve their culture, which is fine. But they see others as "inferior" which is the looniest concept i have ever heard of.

 

[Dr.Nick Riviera]

To me Bangladeshi means Mughal Muslim identity.

As you say, regardless of the language and dialect spoken, what binds Bangladeshis is the moderate Muslim identity.

However, that identity has been under attack since 1952. With the myths around the idiots who died over a pointless and self defeating protest.

If Bangladesh had adopted English as the civil service and academic language - it would now be a genuine Asian tiger.

Adoption of a primitive language has held Bangladesh back and will continue to hold it back.

Bangladesh needs to assert and promote its glorious Bengal Sultanate history and identity. Instead of promoting the backward Hinduvta identity.

It starts by ditching the idiotic national anthem and stupid flag.

Adopt the Bengal Sultanate flag and one of the many patriotic songs as the anthem.

@Dr.Nick Riviera

Bhaisab I can't make heads or tales of what Species is chatting about - he says my history is superficial but in the same post says:

"Bengali identity is subjective"

While also saying:

"Clearly falls within definition of being Bengali"

Are you able to elaborate on this? Is cognitive dissonance a characteristic of this "chetona club" ? @IndianLite

 

[IndianLite]

Bhaisab I can't make heads or tales of what Species is chatting about - he says my history is superficial but in the same post says:

"Bengali identity is subjective"

While also saying:

"Clearly falls within definition of being Bengali"

Are you able to elaborate on this? Is cognitive dissonance a characteristic of this "chetona club" ? @IndianLite

He is just trying to pick a fight where there is none.

He basically agrees with your assertion but too proud to admit it.

Hence the Hindi filmi melodrama and monologue!

These people have invested a lot in Bangla. Unfortunately, it is neither intellectually nor financially rewarding.

They have to contrive nonsense to justify their effort.

They should focus their effort on mastering English.

Most of them cannot string a sentence together.

And let’s destroy all the bloody “shaheed minars”.

It is bloody embarrassing!!!

 

[Dr.Nick Riviera]

I have Sylheti people in my family and some claim they are not Bengali either (!), but they come to our dawats and celebrate with us at Bengali new year, Eid, Shab-e-barat, Mezbaan and weddings just the same. And they speak Bangla!

When India and Bangladesh got divided, some Sylhetis remained in Karimganj and Silchar in Assam.

Maybe Sylhetis complaining now should have remained in those areas - remained Assamese, instead of mixing with us inferior Bengalis.

Most of my Sylheti relatives are doing fine in Bangladesh, they are in the foreign service or captains of large companies and industry. I don't think they'd find it so great if some Sylhetis tried to tell them to move to Assam, which is being ruled by Muslim hater BJP party.

This is the dilemma of some uneducated Sylhetis as I see it. They are trying to preserve their culture, which is fine. But they see others as "inferior" which is the looniest concept i have ever heard of.

I never said for anyone to move to Assam. My central point is Bangladesh is a heterogeneous nation and bengalism is erasing that. You can't be judge , Jury and executioner of your own court like Species who says Bengali identity is subjective while at the same time Bengali identity is clearly definable. Not someone I'm going to bother engaging with.

Please also try to understand, that certain communities will probably not be comfortable in telling you they are not Bengali , so they will maintain the status quo.

In general you seem like someone who is open to reason, so I welcome to discourse on the subject matter but please be sure to keep your emotions in check. I get this is a sensitive subject matter so we need to maintain objectivity and centrally address all positions raised, rather than go on do diversionary tangents and overwhelming with facts (gish gallop).

He is just trying to pick a fight where there is none.

He basically agrees with your assertion but too proud to admit it.

Hence the Hindi filmi melodrama and monologue!

These people have invested a lot in Bangla. Unfortunately, it is neither intellectually nor financially rewarding.

They have to contrive nonsense to justify their effort.

They should focus their effort on mastering English.

Most of them cannot string a sentence together.

And let’s destroy all the bloody “shaheed minars”.

It is bloody embarrassing!!!

I've always maintained that if 1947 republic days was celebrated in desh it would attract hundreds of thousands of not millions of celebrants than "mother language day"

That's just my opinion and maybe I could be wrong, but unless it's celebrated as a public holiday in BD we'll never know.

Bangla language , Bengali nationalism or Bangladesh nationalism is a farce and our political leaders know it and our common public knows it. That's why they won't make August 14 a public celebrated holiday out of fear. I welcome being proved wrong! @IndianLite

 

[IndianLite]

I never said for anyone to move to Assam. My central point is Bangladesh is a heterogeneous nation and bengalism is erasing that. You can't be judge , Jury and executioner of your own court like Species who says Bengali identity is subjective while at the same time Bengali identity is clearly definable. Not someone I'm going to bother engaging with.

Please also try to understand, that certain communities will probably not be comfortable in telling you they are not Bengali , so they will maintain the status quo.

In general you seem like someone who is open to reason, so I welcome to discourse on the subject matter but please be sure to keep your emotions in check. I get this is a sensitive subject matter so we need to maintain objectivity and centrally address all positions raised, rather than go on do diversionary tangents and overwhelming with facts (gish gallop).



I've always maintained that if 1947 republic days was celebrated in desh it would attract hundreds of thousands of not millions of celebrants than "mother language day"

That's just my opinion and maybe I could be wrong, but unless it's celebrated as a public holiday in BD we'll never know.

Bangla language , Bengali nationalism or Bangladesh nationalism is a farce and our political leaders know it and our common public knows it. That's why they won't make August 14 a public celebrated holiday out of fear. I welcome being proved wrong! @IndianLite

Bengal Sultanate was reborn in 1947.

1971 is when it defined its current border.

Bangladeshis should celebrate both.

 

[Species]

Bhaisab I can't make heads or tales of what Species is chatting about - he says my history is superficial but in the same post says:

"Bengali identity is subjective"

While also saying:

"Clearly falls within definition of being Bengali"

Are you able to elaborate on this? Is cognitive dissonance a characteristic of this "chetona club" ? @IndianLite

Selectively quoting posts out of context is a typical trolling which you are now using as your defense after pretending to be intellectual. Can't be more embarrassing!

Chetona club? lol

@Bilal9 bhai how much do I score on chetona bar?

 

[Species]

To me Bangladeshi means Mughal Muslim identity.

As you say, regardless of the language and dialect spoken, what binds Bangladeshis is the moderate Muslim identity.

However, that identity has been under attack since 1952. With the myths around the idiots who died over a pointless and self defeating protest.

If Bangladesh had adopted English as the civil service and academic language - it would now be a genuine Asian tiger.

Adoption of a primitive language has held Bangladesh back and will continue to hold it back.

Bangladesh needs to assert and promote its glorious Bengal Sultanate history and identity. Instead of promoting the backward Hinduvta identity.

It starts by ditching the idiotic national anthem and stupid flag.

Adopt the Bengal Sultanate flag and one of the many patriotic songs as the anthem.

@Dr.Nick Riviera

Bengali language itself developed during the Bengal Sultanate era.

Dobhashi - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So Bangladeshi or Bengali, whatever you call it, is an identity very much tied to the Sultanate history. Confusion arises only when someone ties everything to 1971 which is a just a small part of a long history of this country.

Personally, I identify myself as a Bangladeshi while interacting with foreigners. This is less confusing and far more clearly defined than the term 'Bengali'.