shall the burqa be banned??

[Dubious]

I don't think its always forced....I've met some women who wear it by choice but frankly because I don't consider a 'burqa' to be a part of Islam - I'd want to have it banned in Pakistan though I dunno how the people would react so perhaps a more subtle social change would be the better bet - Educate the people.....Arab Culture is not synonymous with Islam so instead of mimicking things mindlessly (Taqlid) go for rational opinion formulation (Ijtihad) - If the purpose of the Burqa is to allow a lady to cover herself in public because shes comfortable doing that than I don't see why a chaddar, a shalwar kameez or even a suit-piece can't achieve the same ?

It wasnt Arab culture otherwise the verse to cover up the bosom wouldnt be there if those were already covered....

Besides I wonder if any Muslim can show me a single place where the Koran talks about the Burqa or the face-veils or any such things because I surely couldn't find them ?

Interpretation :

QuranicPath | The Claim that Qur'an 33:53 Commands Women to Wear Niqab | Islam | Sunnah | Tafsir | Nikab | Niqaab | Nikaab"

Ruling on covering the face, with detailed evidence
- islamqa.info

Islams Women - The Virtues of Hijab

However no solid rule..

I
Furthermore I don't know why Muslim Men are so easy to fixate on morality...morality & morality in case of the women when we are asked in no lesser terms to 'lower our gazes' ourselves & not gawk like most of us do ?

Exactly however it is not the conversation of the thread...as people always have a problem with women, the way she walks, talks , sneezes, eats ...

I
Plus it never ceases to amaze me how we forget that Koranic precept 'there is no compulsion in religion' & talk about imposing dress codes in the name of religion with such vociferous rhetoric that has less to do with Islam & more to do with our male chauvinism garbed in the cloth of Islam to emotionally blackmail others to obey !

How is this related to the West?

I
However on the other hand I also believe that the Western World too is hypocritical in their approach - Anything...anything at all to do with Islam draws a hissy fit from them; they didn't behave the same way when the Amish or Orthodox Jews or even Nuns themselves were wearing pretty similar attire !

Mon ami flamer, do not lose your cool over such petty issues. Western ideals are something that make the core of our society regardless of religion, ethnicty, sect and gender. I think some here are confused with the meaning of tolerance, it is a security concern and hence in quebec, we have the face mask banned and soon the burqa too. I am sure romania will go a similar path due to security concern eh? However lets keep religion out of this discussion as some here love playing the card.

security concern is already tackled in post 2...

 

[liontk]

It wasnt Arab culture otherwise the verse to cover up the bosom wouldnt be there if those were already covered....
Interpretation :

QuranicPath | The Claim that Qur'an 33:53 Commands Women to Wear Niqab | Islam | Sunnah | Tafsir | Nikab | Niqaab | Nikaab"

Ruling on covering the face, with detailed evidence
- islamqa.info

Islams Women - The Virtues of Hijab

However no solid rule..

Exactly however it is not the conversation of the thread...as people always have a problem with women, the way she walks, talks , sneezes, eats ...

How is this related to the West?



security concern is already tackled in post 2...

Please quote your post as i do not see a clear precise response mon ami.

 

[my2cents]

I personally very rarly see any woman with burqa here, can't remember last time i saw one. Lots of woman with hijab but hardly anyone with burqa. So gov should probably leave it for woman to decide.

Your flags are not visible.

 

[Metanoia]

Before I can vote I need a clear definition of what a Burqa is does it cover the face or not. Also is it a tribal tradition or muslim?

@Aether
Judging something a security risk does not just mean basing off of whether it has been a security risk in the past or present but also the future. Is it possible the Burqa (loose clothing and covering face) could be a security risk? Could a weapon be hidden under it? Could a criminal use it to avoid security? Judging something a security risk is more complicated than you may think.

Burka aka Abaya is a long figureless garment from shoulders to ankles for the females. The men equivalent is Thob.

 

[Dubious]

Talon, I respect your opinion but I am very sad that you support such backward symbols that not only malign islam (innmy opinion) but rather make muslims stick out from our brethrens.

Kid, my opinion is freedom as it is not as the West feels to mold it!
If you want to call it freedom then act on it for everyone equally no hypocrisy!

As for backward? Why the hypocrisy? Backwards was when we dressed in leaves...which we are going with everything allowed except covering up based on choice?

As for maligning...the media has done that job way better than anyone else....everyone now fears burqa when it is just a woman not wanting to be discussed! How hard is it to ask for that? If you want to discuss discuss what she has to say not how she looks (which she has no control over) or how she dresses (some not very rich cant always buy branded clothes) ...so why judge one based on things they have no control over? How is that fair or even just?

These symbols will not help the european muslims integrate and it will keep you guys down in the long run aka east london # poverty#fail integration .

As for integrating they should do that on intellect not on appearance! No matter what we do we will remain brown...by changing our clothing wont help that ...Here in UK you are classified British Asian! Asian word wont drop out even if you use a bikini!

Burka aka Abaya is a long figureless garment from shoulders to ankles for the females. The men equivalent is Thob.

Burqa in the West is the black abaya with niqab....

 

[Armstrong]

It wasnt Arab culture otherwise the verse to cover up the bosom wouldnt be there if those were already covered....
Interpretation :

QuranicPath | The Claim that Qur'an 33:53 Commands Women to Wear Niqab | Islam | Sunnah | Tafsir | Nikab | Niqaab | Nikaab"

Ruling on covering the face, with detailed evidence
- islamqa.info

Islams Women - The Virtues of Hijab

However no solid rule..

Exactly however it is not the conversation of the thread...as people always have a problem with women, the way she walks, talks , sneezes, eats ...

How is this related to the West?

The verse to cover up the bosom makes no mention of the Burqa or any other mode of 'covering up the bosom' - Ones bosom can be covered up in a myriad ways....even a T-Shirt does that - Let the women decided what they wish !

A Burqa with a face-veil on the other hand is a security threat - If one can't see one's face & one looks like a walking American-Indian tent than heaven's knows who could be underneath those meters of cloth & with what !

Do I need to remind you how we caught the terrorist Abdul Ghazi when he was running away from Laal Masjid (the Red Mosque) after his ilk martyred our soldiers ? He was caught trying to sneak out with the women wearing a Burqa !

And others like him have been caught doing exactly that !

Head-Scarf is fine....face veil & the entire tent like thing that comes with it - That can't be Okay !

 

[Dubious]

Please quote your post as i do not see a clear precise response mon ami.

@liontk this video sums it up!

Watch this video.

The verse to cover up the bosom makes no mention of the Burqa or any other mode of 'covering up the bosom' - Ones bosom can be covered up in a myriad ways....even a T-Shirt does that - Let the women decided what they wish !

So the women were naked during the middle ages? I thought you said it is not found in the Quran meaning you searched meaning you have read the verses and the context didnt expect this from you

Yes I am saying the same let them decide how dare you ban it is all I say! Their choice! I never said force it upon them...but you were talking about Arabs and that is not even the subject of the thread! The thread is questioning democracy for banning burqa!

A Burqa with a face-veil on the other hand is a security threat - If one can't see one's face & one looks like a walking American-Indian tent than heaven's knows who could be underneath those meters of cloth & with what !

Watch the video in post 2

Do I need to remind you how we caught the terrorist Abdul Ghazi when he was running away from Laal Masjid (the Red Mosque) after his ilk martyred our soldiers ? He was caught trying to sneak out with the women wearing a Burqa !

And others like him have been caught doing exactly that !

Head-Scarf is fine....face veil & the entire tent like thing that comes with it - That can't be Okay !

So because of 1 damnit terrorist you take away the rights of women to want to wear a burqa? The same terrorist who oppress women and now you oppress them based on what they did rather than what the woman chooses?

 

[liontk]

@flamer84
Toronto woman who lost fight to wear niqab in court ‘disillusioned’ after Crown drops sex assault case | National Post

Honestly this is what some fringe elements have tried to do in Canada but this will not work as our justice system requires cross examination to include the right for prosecutors to see your face. Has there been any precedence of this in your country? I

 

[Dubious]

As i've said to our fellow pdf-ians on this thread ,i've yet to see a burqa in Romania altough we have plenty of muslim africans,pakistanis,arabs coming to our universities.The women wear headscarves and it's ok,our women wear headscarves to,but i when i saw a burqa in Paris it literally shocked and unsettled me.

Just coz it doesnt exist in Romania it means it should be banned? Dude it is their choice where they wanna wear it and when..

 

[liontk]

@flamer84 @Akheilos
Toronto woman who lost fight to wear niqab in court ‘disillusioned’ after Crown drops sex assault case | National Post

Honestly this is what some fringe elements have tried to do in Canada but this will not work as our justice system requires cross examination to include the right for prosecutors to see your face. Has there been any precedence of this in your country? I

Just coz it doesntexist in Romania it means it should be banned? Dude it is their choice where they wanna wear it and when..

T

Just coz it doesnt exist in Romania it means it should be banned? Dude it is their choice where they wanna wear it and when..

This is our country and it is our rules. It is a security concern as the people on the street have the right to see your face similar to the face mask. This should include all government buildings and places including educational institutions where the professor has the right to see your face. If you do not like this, I will simply request for those folks that disagree with this to simply go back to their home countries based on intellectual disagreement.

Edit: I was slight bit rash in my post so I will simply insist that put this to a referendum and also If I came across as slightly rude, I will apologize mon ami as I did not intend my point to do so.

 

[Dubious]

So we should start banning everything...I am sure I can find more articles on misuse of alcohol...heck why dont they ban that shit?

Or misuse of drugs...wait that is already banned but is getting allowed in some states in USA....

 

[flamer84]

Just coz it doesnt exist in Romania it means it should be banned? Dude it is their choice where they wanna wear it and when..

No,it's our choice to uphold some elements in our life.Why can't you understand that this is not about hate towards muslims ? You keep playing the discrimination card,you think it would be hard for me to admit i hate muslims if i really did ? It wouldn't cost me a thing,same for the rest of the Europeans,there wouldn't be muslims in Europe if that would be true.

Why can't you just make some conciliatory moves towards us,like dropping the burqa...tolerance is a two way street.Don't get me started at some of the cheap shots like "western women like to be naked" thrown by some posters in here.This agressive behaviour and unwillingnes to compromise is bad for integration.

 

[Dubious]

This is our country and it is our rules.

Apparently @flamer doesnt think so as he calls all foreigners as foreigners be they 10th generation...as he mentioned clearly in a few of his posts till then...that his country and others shouldnt bring in their culture...clearly putting you not in the "our" area!

It is a security concern as the people on the street have the right to see your face similar to the face mask. This should include all government buildings and places including educational institutions where the professor has the right to see your face. If you do not like this, I will simply request for those folks that disagree with this to simply go back to their home countries based on intellectual disagreement.

Security concern is already tackled in the video in post 2....yes and the lady clearly mentioned she has no problem where its a security issue....

as for going back...you cant even say that to those who chose to wear the face veil and are converts to Islam...which country do you (who is not considered a local - I am talking about Europe- though dealt as one under the law but still not considered ...the word Asian still pops up) want to send the "local" to? ....

 

[flamer84]

Edit: I was slight bit rash in my post so I will simply insist that put this to a referendum and also If I came across as slightly rude, I will apologize mon ami as I did not intend my point to do so.

The decision to ban the burqa will most likely be uphold in a referendum...just as a side note if there would be a "kick muslims out of Europe " type of referendum it would fail miserably because contrary to popular myth Europe is a tolerant place.Just that tolerance has its limits.

 

[Armstrong]

So the women were naked during the middle ages? I thought you said it is not found in the Quran meaning you searched meaning you have read the verses and the context didnt expect this from you

Yes I am saying the same let them decide how dare you ban it is all I say! Their choice! I never said force it upon them...but you were talking about Arabs and that is not even the subject of the thread! The thread is questioning democracy for banning burqa!

Not wearing a Burqa doesn't equal being 'naked' otherwise the vast majority of the women would be naked whether in the Middle Ages or in the Modern World !

I can find nothing to suggest that that verse talks about a 'dress code' for women - It simply talks about covering up & that can be done by different women from different cultures in a different manner; we don't need to borrow from the Arabs what 'covering up' means & equate it with Islam.

Even a dupatta with a shalwar kameez is chaste enough !

I am 'for' banning the Burqa because its a security threat & it has nothing to do with Islam - A head-scarf gives your identity & does not constitute a security threat !

Watch the video in post 2

So because of 1 damnit terrorist you take away the rights of women to want to wear a burqa? The same terrorist who oppress women and now you oppress them based on what they did rather than what the woman chooses?

I have seen the video before - I was not impressed !

And quite a few more than just one terrorist were caught fleeing while wearing a Burqa in Pakistan including a handful of women suicide bombers (or so the news said) who weren't checked because they were wearing the Burqa & what do you know the next thing happens is that they explode on the security checkpost !

So something which has no justification in Islam unless one thinks that Medieval Arab culture is the same as Islam, I don't see why something like this should be tolerated !

And here I am not justifying Western countries - I don't give a frig about what they do or do not do in their own countries - I'm just saying that I wouldn't want this to be done in Pakistan !

Because if the State can say 'wearing promiscuous' clothing is not alright than it sure as hell can say that 'wearing a Burqa' is not alright !