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Selex ES radar & other technology on JF-17?

While we are aware of a Selex ES AESA radar (model unknown) being considered for the JF-17, I wonder if there's potential for deeper cooperation. We know the PAF's ties with any Western vendor will always be on the tough side in terms of cost, supplier-reliability, IP concerns, etc, so we have to keep this in mind as a dampener in terms of expectations. That said, the PAF is managing this well, especially in recent years.

On to the idea.

Selex ES is one of the key vendors behind the Gripen NG, providing that fighter with its Raven ES-05 AESA radar, Skyward IRST, and BriteCloud DRFM decoy.

If you look closely, you'll notice that each of the above programs are distinct from Selex ES' work on the Typhoon; in other words, they're tailor made for the Gripen NG.

You will also notice from the PAF's own wording (from the Paris Air Show article) that while Selex was offering an AESA radar for JF-17, but it never said anything about the model, even though many of us kept referring to the Vixen-series.

For this reason I wonder if Selex is offering a tailor-made solution for the JF-17.

Now I am thinking, could it stop at the radar? Since the PAF openly voiced its interest in equipping the JF-17 with IRST, could Selex offer a specially designed solution on that front too? What about the BriteCloud DRFM-based decoy system (for radar-guided AAM) and Misysis DIRCM (for IR-guided AAM)?

Now asking Selex ES to support a complete sensor suite (AESA radar and IRST) and self-protection kit (based on BriteCloud and Misysis) for JF-17 is an expensive proposition, but it might not be bad.

By building an increasing proportion of the airframe in-house, Pakistan is able to - an extent - control costs in key areas. Unfortunately, it'll still import key materials from elsewhere, so the more it can generate at home (especially in terms of metals and composites) the better. But even if we factor in imports from China, it still isn't expensive, relatively speaking.

With a low-cost airframe and engine, the PAF has a lot of vertical room to build atop on JF-17, it could afford a comparatively pricey sensor and electronic warfare package. The end result could be a platform comparable to the Gripen NG, but at a markedly lower cost. If Selex could secure a PAF order, it'd be providing suites for 50-150 (based on the total 150-250 planned) fighters, possibly more if export orders from the likes of Egypt, Morocco, etc, are secured.

A side point, when you think about the wonder, you really do wonder why the PAF is even giving time to think about new F-16s, especially if it is to pay $80-100mn a unit.

Background on each of Selex ES' subsystems:

BriteCloud - http://www.finmeccanica.com/en/-/britecloud-3

Misysis - http://www.finmeccanica.com/en/-/miysis-dircm-3

Raven ES-05 - http://www.finmeccanica.com/en/-/raven-1

Skyward IRST - http://www.finmeccanica.com/en/-/skyward-1

@Horus, @Bratva, @MastanKhan, @Zarvan @waz @Khafee @araz @HRK @Blue Marlin ; your thoughts?


Hi,

It is all about timing---. The issue would be---how much influence does Saab Gripen have over selex----.

Gripen is desperate in getting the order from india---if it does---then there is the promise from Gripen to selex that india would get on board---and JF17 would be cut off one more time---.

So---if that happens---what are you guys going to do---?
 
Hi,

It is all about timing---. The issue would be---how much influence does Saab Gripen have over selex----.

Gripen is desperate in getting the order from india---if it does---then there is the promise from Gripen to selex that india would get on board---and JF17 would be cut off one more time---.

So---if that happens---what are you guys going to do---?

Make our own AESA. I'm not kidding. Every single time Pakistan has been bullied/pressurized through sanctions/political out-manoeuvring, we have come right back and found options to get what we want. Remember that Turkey's TFX program is getting underway. Yes, the fighter itself is years away, but work on sub-systems like the engine, avionics etc. can start in parallel.
 
Make our own AESA. I'm not kidding. Every single time Pakistan has been bullied/pressurized through sanctions/political out-manoeuvring, we have come right back and found options to get what we want. Remember that Turkey's TFX program is getting underway. Yes, the fighter itself is years away, but work on sub-systems like the engine, avionics etc. can start in parallel.

Hi,

I appreciate your comments---but you are not very literate on matters of Tier 1 weapons manufacturing systems.
 
Hi,

I appreciate your comments---but you are not very literate on matters of Tier 1 weapons manufacturing systems.

Fair enough. I would be surprised if someone on this forum has actual experience in coordinating a cradle to grave effort to manufacture ANY sophisticated weapons system. Btw, the tier classification was used specifically for unmanned aerial systems:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._military_UAS_groups

But the point is, we have a vast history of resiliency and it seems logical that mere political manipulation would not be enough to divert us from our goals.
 
Fair enough. I would be surprised if someone on this forum has actual experience in coordinating a cradle to grave effort to manufacture ANY sophisticated weapons system. Btw, the tier classification was used specifically for unmanned aerial systems:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._military_UAS_groups

But the point is, we have a vast history of resiliency and it seems logical that mere political manipulation would not be enough to divert us from our goals.

Hi,

Time is the enemy of Pakistan and pakistan's air force---.
 
Fair enough. I would be surprised if someone on this forum has actual experience in coordinating a cradle to grave effort to manufacture ANY sophisticated weapons system. Btw, the tier classification was used specifically for unmanned aerial systems:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._military_UAS_groups

But the point is, we have a vast history of resiliency and it seems logical that mere political manipulation would not be enough to divert us from our goals.


Hi,

We also have a history of massive sabotage from inside as well---. Govt officials who are on the enemy payroll---govt officials who are extremely arrogant and ignorant---including military and air force generals as well.

And the reason being---there is no fear of consequences---.

If ever pakistan needed to develop a fire control radar of their own---it was for the JF17---and knowing their limitations---they made decisions to go for a certain vendor---. When the decision backfired due to their own blunders---then we find ourselves in deep sh-it one more time.

And this is again a serious concern that I have---how deep can Saab sabotage this sale.
 
Hi,

We also have a history of massive sabotage from inside as well---. Govt officials who are on the enemy payroll---govt officials who are extremely arrogant and ignorant---including military and air force generals as well.

And the reason being---there is no fear of consequences---.

If ever pakistan needed to develop a fire control radar of their own---it was for the JF17---and knowing their limitations---they made decisions to go for a certain vendor---. When the decision backfired due to their own blunders---then we find ourselves in deep sh-it one more time.

And this is again a serious concern that I have---how deep can Saab sabotage this sale.

I agree about unethical officials. I think the most high profile foreign agent was Musharraf. Others may debate this, and I am sure we could have an entire thread dedicated to this discussion. But yes, he got away without any consequences. From the perspective of 'glass half full' though, when it became obvious he is selling the country and has invited Blackwater etc. en masse, even he got sidelined and the American agents were systematically identified and given the boot. My personal opinion is that when it comes to very high level national security, we have some very capable people monitoring the situation. But yes, at the lower levels, there are lots of gaps. We need more honest, dedicated people who form a system of honor and truthfulness around them.
 
Hi,

Thank you for your post---. You are satisfying yourself with the lowest threshold of success---and that is a tragedy in itself---.

You want to stop these attacks--execute the officers incharge by a firing squad for dereliction of duty---.

It is such a SHAME to read your posts reeking of JUSTIFYINF INCOMPETENCE



Hi,

I will only " sleep good at night " when I put you guys to shame on national tv---and your disgrace is wide and open for everyone to see---.

Pakistani public needs to shown the real face of the Paf---.
Dream on, and climb a pole.
 
Hi,

I am mourning the death of my elder brother who passed away yesterday--.

In the next few days---I will start writing again and start with another campaign---where we will target TRAITORS in the air force---.

In the meantime---why don't you suck on the pole to sooth your older nerves-.
May Allah grant him paradise and free him from all of his sins. And give ur gamily patience
 
Hi,

I am mourning the death of my elder brother who passed away yesterday--.

In the next few days---I will start writing again and start with another campaign---where we will target TRAITORS in the air force---.

In the meantime---why don't you suck on the pole to sooth your older nerves-.

May Allah bless the soul of your elder brother, and give him magfirah and your family sabar. We await your noble efforts to do what you intend to do, and look forward to providing introspect to all readers.
BR.
 
Hi,

I am mourning the death of my elder brother who passed away yesterday--.

Sad to hear about your elder brother Muhtaram. May ALLAH grant him Jannah and forget his sins if any and may ALLAH give strength to you and your family in these times. Me and my family Prays for your Brother.
 
Hi,

I am mourning the death of my elder brother who passed away yesterday--.

In the next few days---I will start writing again and start with another campaign---where we will target TRAITORS in the air force---.

RIP. May Allah grant him paradise. Ameen.
 
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