Selex ES radar & other technology on JF-17?

[WarFariX]

@MastanKhan agree bro..ppl have sold their nationailty for shit green card and studying and settling abroad

 

[araz]

Hi,

You chose to be suppressed---because you cannot look into the white boys blue / gray eyes and tell them how it needs to be done.

So---big deal that pakistan was threatened----that is the only SOB story that you guys had---what stopped you from grinding out a deal---. It was your own failings.

The threat did not have anything to do to make a lesser deal for pakistan---rundi ronay---.

Once pakistan agreed---it was left upto you what to make out of it---.

You pakistanis sold yourself CHEAP---not because the U S wanted it that way---but because of your INFIGHTING and incompetence.

You advanced the richest nation of the world 1 billion dollars a year---and you let that nation use the term aid for that advance---.


Whereas you should have charged them 5 times the amount up in advance every year---the cost of doing business---.

" But you guys never knew that EXPENSIVE is GOOD and CHEAP is BAD.

Treat america like it wants to be treated---. See these american women---they hook onto rich husband and when divorced get 50% or an outrageous amount in settlement and rich american men still love them.

That is the american mindset---you act poor to the americans---they will give you the boot---but act arrogant and rich---and they will kiss your whatever. "

Neither you knew how to act when creating an alliance---nor you knew how to make a solid deal for pakistan---and all you guys can say is----Haal oye---dhaar oye---mein mur giya---meinoon maar gaiye---.


When 1/2 the army leadership was divided---that means this half was oput of touch with reality---.

I have to agree with you on this one. I think the fact that Musharraf collapsed like a house of cards to some threat of bombing Pakistan back to stone ages lacked a certain lack of confidence in one's capabilities.I fully agree that we should have sided up with the US on the Afghan war but behind the scene should have bargained hard for the right deal. I agree that perhaps a leader with more mas support would have done a far better job than what Musharraf did.
A

Hi,

Because they have and had no experience of talking back sh-it to the americans.

All these guys are in waiting to get green cards and scholarships for their kids---so how can they be sincere to pakistan.

That is why I keep saying to you guys that you have been had by the very own that you trusted---and not by the americans---.

The americans did not deceive you---it was your own pakistanis who sold you out---.

A true and honorable pakistani would have stood in front of the TV cameras and stated---" who gives a fck who toppled the twin towers---let us take care of the problem that is going to bring the monster of death and destruction into our backyard ".

These 1/2 of the generals wanted to make a vietnam of the U S---those dumb arses forgot that over 4 million vietnamese died in the making of ' vietnam ' for the U S military and the infra structire of the vietnam was totally destroyed---.

Do you really think that these pakistani generals were honestly sincere to pakistan---just think about it.

I think you have to assess the situation in toto rather than taking extreme views. People sell themselves for various reasons, Visas and education and houses being one, a risk to their lives being another. Either case the situation needed someone who should have stood his/her ground firmly but pleasantly. Kill with a smile on your face. I think it would be slightly unfair to assess the situation from one side as none of us know what went on behind the scene.
However as I said I still feel and have always felt we got sold short and Musharraf lacked the political canniness to wrest a good deal out ofthe US even at the expense of his own life.
A

 

[Bratva]

I have to agree with you on this one. I think the fact that Musharraf collapsed like a house of cards to some threat of bombing Pakistan back to stone ages lacked a certain lack of confidence in one's capabilities.I fully agree that we should have sided up with the US on the Afghan war but behind the scene should have bargained hard for the right deal. I agree that perhaps a leader with more mas support would have done a far better job than what Musharraf did.
A


I think you have to assess the situation in toto rather than taking extreme views. People sell themselves for various reasons, Visas and education and houses being one, a risk to their lives being another. Either case the situation needed someone who should have stood his/her ground firmly but pleasantly. Kill with a smile on your face. I think it would be slightly unfair to assess the situation from one side as none of us know what went on behind the scene.
However as I said I still feel and have always felt we got sold short and Musharraf lacked the political canniness to wrest a good deal out ofthe US even at the expense of his own life.
A

He fell like a house of cards because he knew a tactical retreat would give him time to give refugee to haqqani and afghan taliban group so that they dont turn their backs on us when america leave afghanistan in distant future. His givimg in to their was a ruse to give time to prepare for a long con. But our mullahs and taliban with shortsightedness chose to ignore this kind of strategy and accuse musharraf and all the pakastanis murtids for supporting america

 

[araz]

He fell like a house of cards because he knew a tactical retreat would give him time to give refugee to haqqani and afghan taliban group so that they dont turn their backs on us when america leave afghanistan in distant future. His givimg in to their was a ruse to give time to prepare for a long con. But our mullahs and taliban with shortsightedness chose to ignore this kind of strategy and accuse musharraf and all the pakastanis murtids for supporting america

I think he would have had all the time in the world if he had negotiated for a valid Pakistani need. We became a partner n their WOT and they did not release OUR f16s till 2005??? and that too only 14 out of 28. We were denied newerF16s till 2004-5. We were only given a reschedule of our loans as compared to Egypt having had their loans written off. I would stand by my point that we could have come out much better with an agreement on the tele but hard bargaining behind the scene. I think we under estimate our position as a nuclear power and our strategic location. The US would never have engaged us aggressively. Their whole strategy of war in Afghanistan relied on Pakistan providing them access to our air space and air fields to bomb Afghanistan. When you did stand up Post Salala they did back down. NO. We have a history of selling ourselves short which comes out of lack of strategy and understanding how the world works. Zia understood that and he did manipulate them well. But the risk would have been that Mushy might have been done away with . If he was willing to go to that much of a risk for his country then we could have achieved our aims.
A

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

I think he would have had all the time in the world if he had negotiated for a valid Pakistani need. We became a partner n their WOT and they did not release OUR f16s till 2005??? and that too only 14 out of 28. We were denied newerF16s till 2004-5. We were only given a reschedule of our loans as compared to Egypt having had their loans written off. I would stand by my point that we could have come out much better with an agreement on the tele but hard bargaining behind the scene. I think we under estimate our position as a nuclear power and our strategic location. The US would never have engaged us aggressively. Their whole strategy of war in Afghanistan relied on Pakistan providing them access to our air space and air fields to bomb Afghanistan. When you did stand up Post Salala they did back down. NO. We have a history of selling ourselves short which comes out of lack of strategy and understanding how the world works. Zia understood that and he did manipulate them well. But the risk would have been that Mushy might have been done away with . If he was willing to go to that much of a risk for his country then we could have achieved our aims.
A

Strange, I would have thought that Zia's policies made Pakistan lose a lot of credibility inside the US govt.
Pakistan has seen the effects of that over and over again.

 

[araz]

Strange, I would have thought that Zia's policies made Pakistan lose a lot of credibility inside the US govt.
Pakistan has seen the effects of that over and over again.

If you read my post again what I said was that Zia knew how to manipulate the US the best. Iam not discussing the effect of his policies.Secondly if you look at the game that big powers play, it is for the smaller nation a small window of opportunity to avail of any benefits that it can out of the situation before the game ends. once the game ends you always end up getting blamed. So what matters is what you can avail while the big cat needs you. In this context you can see how we were indispensible on both the occasions.The question is why we submitted so meekly the second time.?
policies of both rulers were questioned. Zia was dislodged by a bomb and Musharraf by electoral ballot.
A

 

[CHI RULES]

Hi,

Because they have and had no experience of talking back sh-it to the americans.

All these guys are in waiting to get green cards and scholarships for their kids---so how can they be sincere to pakistan.

That is why I keep saying to you guys that you have been had by the very own that you trusted---and not by the americans---.

The americans did not deceive you---it was your own pakistanis who sold you out---.

A true and honorable pakistani would have stood in front of the TV cameras and stated---" who gives a fck who toppled the twin towers---let us take care of the problem that is going to bring the monster of death and destruction into our backyard ".

These 1/2 of the generals wanted to make a vietnam of the U S---those dumb arses forgot that over 4 million vietnamese died in the making of ' vietnam ' for the U S military and the infra structire of the vietnam was totally destroyed---.

Do you really think that these pakistani generals were honestly sincere to pakistan---just think about it.

Well u have entered in long discussion related to morality, to me what I have studied Gen Zia was more honest with his own country and ditched USA at different matters, however many in Pak may not agree with me, on the other I think Musharaf in his own way tried to westernize the country he was developed version of Gen Ayub Khan but I don't like him.

In a way USA has historically deceived almost every ally by one way or another by using old British tactics of bringing people on own payroll. What happened to PAF head Mashaf Mir is still a mystery like Gen Zia's.

For you perhaps a happy news has came out on urdu media taht PAF will start production of Block-3 JF17 by 2019 with all gadgets desired by u and me with price tag of App 32.000Million USD per Jet.

Now as confirmed by Abida Hussain in her book the F16 deal was having much question marks and that deal tied PAF hands, perhaps liability goes on both shoulders of people from Defense Ministers to PAF officials.

 

[WarFariX]

@CHI RULES @araz @A.P. Richelieu @Bratva @MastanKhan please u all dont ruin a beautiful thread by ur off topic posts..i respect all of ur posts but this thread has some other objectives..thnx in advance

 

[MastanKhan]

I have to agree with you on this one. I think the fact that Musharraf collapsed like a house of cards to some threat of bombing Pakistan back to stone ages lacked a certain lack of confidence in one's capabilities.I fully agree that we should have sided up with the US on the Afghan war but behind the scene should have bargained hard for the right deal. I agree that perhaps a leader with more mas support would have done a far better job than what Musharraf did.
A


I think you have to assess the situation in toto rather than taking extreme views. People sell themselves for various reasons, Visas and education and houses being one, a risk to their lives being another. Either case the situation needed someone who should have stood his/her ground firmly but pleasantly. Kill with a smile on your face. I think it would be slightly unfair to assess the situation from one side as none of us know what went on behind the scene.
However as I said I still feel and have always felt we got sold short and Musharraf lacked the political canniness to wrest a good deal out ofthe US even at the expense of his own life.
A

Hi,

I never blamed Gen Musharraf for folding down---that was the perfect thing to do---but after agreeing to everything---he should have opened the Book Negotiations one more time---.

He should have stated-=--in our understanding this is what was needed---but as we assessed the situation---we found out that we are being taken advantage of---and we need to re-negotiate---.

Pakistanis need to learn to re-negotiate with the americans as the americans do.

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

Hi,

I never blamed Gen Musharraf for folding down---that was the perfect thing to do---but after agreeing to everything---he should have opened the Book Negotiations one more time---.

He should have stated-=--in our understanding this is what was needed---but as we assessed the situation---we found out that we are being taken advantage of---and we need to re-negotiate---.

Pakistanis need to learn to re-negotiate with the americans as the americans do.

Go to bed old man. You have successfully derailed (yet another) thread.

 

[aftab_s81]

Hi,

I never blamed Gen Musharraf for folding down---that was the perfect thing to do---but after agreeing to everything---he should have opened the Book Negotiations one more time---.

He should have stated-=--in our understanding this is what was needed---but as we assessed the situation---we found out that we are being taken advantage of---and we need to re-negotiate---.

Pakistanis need to learn to re-negotiate with the americans as the americans do.

While I think that Pakistanis must draw their head out of American *** as US has moved forward without Pakistan and Pakistanis must also wake-up and look around. It does not mean that we should disconnect from Goras instead we should have working relationship with them and try to keep them happy (but not deceive them as Mush-riff-raff did). But we also strengthen our relationship with other world like Europeans Japanese and Russians etc. There is simply no more juice in this so called Pak-US relationship, just purge it and move forward.

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

Hi,

You never told me were you a part of the traitors who did not provide security for the pakistani air bases---resulting in a billion dollar loss.

Were you also a part of the traitors who sabotaged the purchase of fighter jets for pakistan in a timely manner.

Yeah, i am one of those "traitors," if it helps you sleep at night. Apparently, everyone here other than yourself is a traitor.

 

[araz]

Hi,

I never blamed Gen Musharraf for folding down---that was the perfect thing to do---but after agreeing to everything---he should have opened the Book Negotiations one more time---.

He should have stated-=--in our understanding this is what was needed---but as we assessed the situation---we found out that we are being taken advantage of---and we need to re-negotiate---.

Pakistanis need to learn to re-negotiate with the americans as the americans do.

This is exactly what I am saying. Agree and express solidarity on camera but behind the scene negotiate hard. If not working walk away and let them come after you. All the time expressions of support on the media. This would have been the way to play this. For the US timing was of essence. They would have had to negotiate from a position of relative inferiority and you could have gotten a better deal for Pakistan.
A

 

[CHI RULES]

Hi,

You never told me were you a part of the traitors who did not provide security for the pakistani air bases---resulting in a billion dollar loss.

Were you also a part of the traitors who sabotaged the purchase of fighter jets for pakistan in a timely manner.

Dear Sir a country facing World Super power's agencies along with bulk of other agencies including so called brotherly Muslim Countries is still doing much better as well as the armed forces. The PA forces have learnt a lot if a country like India facing such fidai attacks since decades can't stop them how the hell our forces can do that.

No other country of the world is in same situation as we are, old saying united we stand, divide we shall fall. Please do not use derogatory remarks against PAF personnel. Though many of your remarks are ridiculous yet taken in positive way so u should do same.

I hope u have n't forget Pak values.

 

[MastanKhan]

Dear Sir a country facing World Super power's agencies along with bulk of other agencies including so called brotherly Muslim Countries is still doing much better as well as the armed forces. The PA forces have learnt a lot if a country like India facing such fidai attacks since decades can't stop them how the hell our forces can do that.

No other country of the world is in same situation as we are, old saying united we stand, divide we shall fall. Please do not use derogatory remarks against PAF personnel. Though many of your remarks are ridiculous yet taken in positive way so u should do same.

I hope u have n't forget Pak values.

Hi,

Thank you for your post---. You are satisfying yourself with the lowest threshold of success---and that is a tragedy in itself---.

You want to stop these attacks--execute the officers incharge by a firing squad for dereliction of duty---.

It is such a SHAME to read your posts reeking of JUSTIFYINF INCOMPETENCE

Yeah, i am one of those "traitors," if it helps you sleep at night. Apparently, everyone here other than yourself is a traitor.

Hi,

I will only " sleep good at night " when I put you guys to shame on national tv---and your disgrace is wide and open for everyone to see---.

Pakistani public needs to shown the real face of the Paf---.