Secularism is the way forward

[miss]

That laugh is creepy. The rest of the points are not worth addressing

sourgrapes. you dont have an argument after trolling... and successfully derailing the thread.
i dont konw about my laugh... but the americans certainly are laughing merrily

 

[SamantK]

The term (secularism) has become far too controversial to be used in political discourse in many parts of the Muslim world, where it is often considered synonymous with 'Western/American values being imposed on Muslims to destroy Islam'.

It would be far better to talk about changes in the system in more general terms - changing the system to reflect equality, justice and freedom for everyone, regardless of faith, gender or race.

The name of the system is not the issue, the values the system promotes are the issue.

Even if you do not give a name to system you proposed, people at some time will give it a name and then the whole vicious cycle will continue, but with a different name.. I do not think it is possible for Pakistan as for the good changes, the system while maintaining a religious coverage, will be very very slow..

 

[Black Widow]

Read the context of that discussion. It's about secularism applied to a person, not state.


As a thirteen year old would say, "OMG! CAN WE HAZ PROOF?"
Repeating something a lot of times doesn't make it true



Funny, that's what I'm asking you for.
And example, yes. For example, do you think the Mullahs will be all nice and WON'T blame anyone for secularism being enforced?

My apologies, I dont see the context. Being Secular or religious is personal choice. It must not be forced upon. ppl think opposite of secular is communal, which is wrong. One who is not secular can be religious or communal. Synonymy of secularism is not atheism. One can be secualar and religious same time...

 

[miss]

Even if you do not give a name to system you proposed, people at some time will give it a name and then the whole vicious cycle will continue, but with a different name.. I do not think it is possible for Pakistan as for the good changes, the system while maintaining a religious coverage, will be very very slow..

exactly... pak will change only if all the religious zealots are thrown out and people are reeducated on more liberal lines. its disgusting for sunnis in pak to keep on exluding people by calling them non muslims. in india anyone can all himself as any religion. i can call myself a mslim but keep going to my temples the wa i wise. for eg.. many instance of people calling themselves mslim just to marry. eg. dharmendar - hema malini. but they are as hindu in practise.

 

[Black Widow]

Secularism is society dependent. Indian secularism is not similar to French or American or UK.

 

[ice_man]

i dobn't understand this secular nonsense! Islam is the biggest SECULAR religion in my opinon! Under the ottoman empire or under Salahudin or during the time of the PROPHET all religions were allowed to live freely & practise their beliefs!

freedom given under islamic rule was never seen or heard of before!

 

[Black Widow]

i dobn't understand this secular nonsense! Islam is the biggest SECULAR religion in my opinon! Under the ottoman empire or under Salahudin or during the time of the PROPHET all religions were allowed to live freely & practise their beliefs!

freedom given under islamic rule was never seen or heard of before!

Please don't say that. In which Islamic state other religion survived/grew??? Do you think we are dumb?? Have u heard of Jajia??? Do you know how much Persian are alive in Persia (Iran). DO you have data how minorities shrink in Pakistan??? Do you have any Idea how minoriy shrunk in Al-shahab Somalia???

DO you have any Idea how much Islam grew in India?? DO you have any data how much Islam grew in UK, America, France and Germany????


Islam may be religion of peace, Islam may give equal rights (theoraticaly), But I data/facts tell different story.. I m not here to endorse your assumption, you must come with fact/data.

Salahuddin and Ottoman are not even 1% of Islamic History. You can not use exception as law.

 

[roshangjha]

i dobn't understand this secular nonsense! Islam is the biggest SECULAR religion in my opinon! Under the ottoman empire or under Salahudin or during the time of the PROPHET all religions were allowed to live freely & practise their beliefs!

freedom given under islamic rule was never seen or heard of before!

Secular and Religion don't go well together.

Secularism simply means that the state and the church (or temple/mosque) would be different and they will not be interlinked. There will not be any consideration given to any religion in the state's functioning.

That's the way forward.

 

[miss]

i dobn't understand this secular nonsense! Islam is the biggest SECULAR religion in my opinon! Under the ottoman empire or under Salahudin or during the time of the PROPHET all religions were allowed to live freely & practise their beliefs!

freedom given under islamic rule was never seen or heard of before!

so a christian could become the caliph too?

 

[Bang Galore]

Why is there so much confusion about the word secular? Why is it being used in the context of individuals? Individuals are almost never secular, believers are either liberal or conservative. Non believers are equally unlikely to be genuinely secular. Secular as a term is best limited to state behaviour & not that of a individual. The state must not favour any faith nor must it deal harshly with any faith within the limitations of the law and must not use religion as the basis for any of its functions. End of story.

 

[ice_man]

Please don't say that. In which Islamic state other religion survived/grew??? Do you think we are dumb?? Have u heard of Jajia??? Do you know how much Persian are alive in Persia (Iran). DO you have data how minorities shrink in Pakistan??? Do you have any Idea how minoriy shrunk in Al-shahab Somalia???

DO you have any Idea how much Islam grew in India?? DO you have any data how much Islam grew in UK, America, France and Germany????


Islam may be religion of peace, Islam may give equal rights (theoraticaly), But I data/facts tell different story.. I m not here to endorse your assumption, you must come with fact/data.

Salahuddin and Ottoman are not even 1% of Islamic History. You can not use exception as law.

OTTOMAN rule was for almost 700 years and you are saying it was 1%? for almost 700 years the muslims ruled in spain! and while EUROPE was going through dark ages muslims in spain were building large gardens,scientifc advances & fountains. the renaissance happend AFTER the muslims were defeated & their advances fell into the hands of christians! & let us not forget the atrocities against muslims after the expelsion from spain!

and salahudin well we saw what the christians did after they entered jursealam & we saw what salahudin did when he entered it.

& finally let us not forget that india had almost a 1000 years of mughul rule and yet is a domininat hindu country means clearly there was NO FORCE applied. otherwise either the rulers would have been expeled or the whole country would have been forcefully converted!

 

[Omar1984]

I don't think it would make sense to make Pakistan a secular state. Non-Muslims make only 3% of Pakistan's population and they are scattered all over Pakistan, they don't make a majority in any place in Pakistan. India had to declare itself a secular state because it wanted Muslim majority Kashmir, Hyderabad, and other places in India where Muslims are a majority.

And other than Karachi and maybe Lahore, other parts of Pakistan are conservative. Turkey is a very liberal Muslim majority country. Much of Pakistan is conservative.

 

[Zarvan]

I don't think it would make sense to make Pakistan a secular state. Non-Muslims make only 3% of Pakistan's population and they are scattered all over Pakistan, they don't make a majority in any place in Pakistan. India had to declare itself a secular state because it wanted Muslim majority Kashmir, Hyderabad, and other places in India where Muslims are a majority.

And other than Karachi and maybe Lahore, other parts of Pakistan are conservative. Turkey is a very liberal Muslim majority country. Much of Pakistan is conservative.

Secularism is bound to fail in every Muslim country and soon it will fail in Turkey because Islam is complete social political and economic system yes for a while Muslims may not follow Islam but sooner or later they will and try to implement Islam on their own if governments will not do it and these will lead to revolution

 

[roshangjha]

I don't think it would make sense to make Pakistan a secular state. Non-Muslims make only 3% of Pakistan's population and they are scattered all over Pakistan, they don't make a majority in any place in Pakistan. India had to declare itself a secular state because it wanted Muslim majority Kashmir, Hyderabad, and other places in India where Muslims are a majority.

And other than Karachi and maybe Lahore, other parts of Pakistan are conservative. Turkey is a very liberal Muslim majority country. Much of Pakistan is conservative.

FYI, Hyderabad was, and is, a Hindu Majority.

 

[Indrajith]

Has pakistan implimented Sharia law as its constitution, does they have different law for differnt people according to their religion--- Religion should be a private thing for individual and politics and government should be other thing that should be according to the constitution of the country - when you do not respect other religions and other faiths you become a terrorist because you can nnot accept others view point