Sectarianism in Pakistan military: Fact or Fiction

[TankMan]

hahah ... well, you know there's all this research on how certain words just take on a negative connotation in popular conscience, not because of what they actually mean, but because of how they have been used by various entities to further their ideological agendas.

So now one has to use a sentence or more to explain the same idea a single word would have accomplished.

You can just use the word ''secular'' when you argue with me, I don't mind. I disagree with secularizing Pakistan, not because I think it's Haram but because I think it's not practical and because I believe the issue can be solved in a much more pragmatic and effective way.

Let me put it this way : Secularism will benefit political mullahs since they'll have more ammunition and more of the religious conservative majority will flock to them.

A moderate and tolerant form of Islam, endorsed by the state, will practically destroy the political mullahs and will have support of the public.

Religion is powerful. Why not use it positively? Why should we let mullahs hijack it?

 

[Thorough Pro]

Stop spreading sectarian hate with your conspiracy theories. what happened, happened. move on.

Some people say that a battle cry of "Ya Ali" used since inception of the force fell victim to sectarianism prevalent during Zia ul Haq's time. It should have been retained because it had become part of the formation's tradition, and modern armies without rich traditions are no different from a militia.

On the other hand, opponents say that the battle cry of "Ya Ali" itself was sectarian and it was a good idea to change to one that can be used by both sects.

What's your take on this PDF?

 

[SipahSalar]

Stop spreading sectarian hate with your conspiracy theories. what happened, happened. move on.

What part of my statement exactly is a "conspiracy theory"?

 

[Indus Falcon]

I sympathize with shias but i agree fully here. There should be a religiously neutral battle cry. No offense to shias intended.

In fact there should also be a battle cry that is neutral to christians and hindus in the pak army.

Well Allah translated into any language means GOD. Christians, Sikhs & Hindus, do believe in a Supreme being, so saying Allah hu Akbar = God is Great. Isn't that neutral, non-sectarian enough?

 

[Thorough Pro]

Don't go so overboard in expressing you hate that you commit blashphemy.

Thank your gods that Wahabi-ul-Azeem Zia-ul-Khabees didn't change the battle cry to "Ya Saud Al-Lost Rasul" (Astakhfirullah)

If things keep going as they are, expect the latest battle cry for the Armed Forces to be:

"Abdul-Wahab Hamara Baap"


Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Note: Edited the following quote above as certain people couldn't recognize that I wasn't referring to one of the siffat's of Allah SWT, rather one of the leading corruptors of Islam, namely Abdul-Wahab

Edited line: "Al Wahab Hamara Baap"

P.S. Someone having the last or first name "Wahab" doesn't make him/her/them more Allah SWT like, than 90 million plus Pakistanis having the name Muhammad make them a nabi........ sometimes, explaining these mundane things and differences, which should be apparent by logic, takes eons to explain..... maybe it's the pathetic state of learning in Pakistan that is to be blamed!

@Gufi : Edited and explained for your convenience.

 

[Hyperion]

He has a valid question and we all know of your sectarian bias....... hence, it was not meant for you in the first place!

Stop spreading sectarian hate with your conspiracy theories. what happened, happened. move on.

 

[Thorough Pro]

Best answer

Neither Ya' Ali nor Ya' Mohammed (PBUH) is right battle cry. We seek help from Allah and only Allah, from whom Mohammed (PBUH) and Ali (RA) themselves used to seek help and assistance.

 

[Hyperion]

Of course, anything that YOUR microcosm can't process due to divine lanats is blasphemy!

Shoo insignificant infidel......

Don't go so overboard in expressing you hate that you commit blashphemy.

 

[TankMan]

P.S. Someone having the last or first name "Wahab" doesn't make him/her/them more Allah SWT like, than 90 million plus Pakistanis having the name Muhammad make them a nabi........ sometimes, explaining these mundane things and differences, which should be apparent by logic, takes eons to explain..... maybe it's the pathetic state of learning in Pakistan that is to be blamed!

Refrain from Strawmen. Nobody argued that Abdul Wahab's name made him divine and nobody argued that people being named Muhammad are like prophets. Nobody said any of what you're arguing against.

The argument was simply that names should not be mocked, especially when they have religious connotations.

 

[Hyperion]

We aren't sitting in a Pakistani exam hall........... and it's not being graded by an infidel teacher!

Best answer

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Don't go so overboard in expressing you hate that you commit blashphemy.

Yes, which is why there should be no need for Blasphemy laws.

The argument that they can be used to prevent 'insult" to all sects or faiths is total BS, because there is no restriction on the ASWJ/SSP/Lashkar-e-Jhangvi badmouthing Shia and spreading hate against them.

 

[JOEY TRIBIANI]

I will go with Ya Allah .

 

[Hyperion]

I maybe totally helpless to help you - help me........

Refrain from Strawmen. Nobody argued that Abdul Wahab's name made him divine and nobody argued that people being named Muhammad are like prophets. Nobody said any of what you're arguing against.

The argument was simply that names should not be mocked, especially when they have religious connotations.

 

[Bratva]

Quick example, mate.
When you meet a General, do you go to him first or do you contact him through his ADC?
Same thing with Allah (SWT) and Hazrat Ali (A.S) but on a much much much much greater scale.
And secondly, Battle cries don't make any difference. Sure It might be a morale boost, Allah hu Akbar is the best of them all.
Just don't end up like the syrian towelheads who fire a bullet and shout "ALLAH HU ACKBAR"
*shoots RPG and backblast kills own friend*
ALLAH HU ACKBAR
*Assad drops bombs on him*
ALLAH HU ACKBAR
*tank shoots at him*
ALLAH HU ACKBAR
*fires his ak while sitting in the classical shitting position*
ALLAH HU ACKBAR
*beheads assads soldiers*
ALLAH HU ACKBAR
I find this highly blasphemous and disrespectful.


fun fact, Both Shias and Sunnis think of Imam Ali as a great person. I don't see how any Muslim can see this as disunity...

I don't understand why people make Ignorant comments about Allah and present Him as some unreachable deity without some Waseela. If for a moment, they bother to Open Quran and read the words of GENERAL himself, he would be ashamed for thinking Allah can't be reached directly.



سورة غافر -
Surat Ghāfir (The Forgiver) -

And your Lord says, "Call upon Me; I will respond to you." Indeed, those who disdain My worship will enter Hell [rendered] contemptible.

It is Allah who made for you the night that you may rest therein and the day giving sight. Indeed, Allah is full of bounty to the people, but most of the people are not grateful.

That is Allah , your Lord, Creator of all things; there is no deity except Him, so how are you deluded?

Thus were those [before you] deluded who were rejecting the signs of Allah .

It is Allah who made for you the earth a place of settlement and the sky a ceiling and formed you and perfected your forms and provided you with good things. That is Allah , your Lord; then blessed is Allah , Lord of the worlds.

He is the Ever-Living; there is no deity except Him, so call upon Him, [being] sincere to Him in religion. [All] praise is [due] to Allah , Lord of the worlds.

Say, [O Muhammad], "Indeed, I have been forbidden to worship those you call upon besides Allah once the clear proofs have come to me from my Lord, and I have been commanded to submit to the Lord of the worlds."

 

[TankMan]

Yes, which is why there should be no need for Blasphemy laws.

The argument that they can be used to prevent 'insult" to all sects or faiths is total BS, because there is no restriction on the ASWJ/SSP/Lashkar-e-Jhangvi badmouthing Shia and spreading hate against them.

Pakistani imam jailed for five years for anti-Shia sermons - The Express Tribune
There is a restriction. It's just that our law enforcement is too incompetent to enforce it properly and uniformly.

Though the Blasphemy Law's death penalty and long sentences need to be finished. Five years should be maximum for insult (we call it blasphemy, even though Blasphemy laws are not part of Islam), and maybe more for hate-speech i.e incitement.

I maybe totally helpless to help you - help me........

I don't need any help. I can defend my beliefs perfectly well in a rational argument. Me being serious with my religious beliefs does not make me inferior to you and neither does it mean I need your help.