Saudi Arabia slaps Russia in the face

[Arian]

Human rights is the only evidence that can point the advancement of a country... Science does not prove anything. We can see this in Turkey, China, Russia, India, Iran, Nazi Germany etc etc...While Turkey, India and Iran has somewhat advancent scientific development, they are not the example of modern country...

Now you're speaking a bit rationally. Well, human rights are universally accepted values. No one doubts that, but it depends how you want to measure the level of human rights in a country. There's no doubt that by any standards, Iran will not be ranked high, but you should also notice that human rights is now used as an excuse to bash your rivals. If you think human rights are global and universal values, then you should agree with me that the world is moving backwards. We could clearly see how the USA is killing innocent civilians around the world and how it is suppressing protestors in the USA. By suppression I don't mean that they are shooting people, but we've seen tens of times that they've tasered people and have pepper sprayed protestors for no justifiable reason. The UK is becoming even worse. There are very few nations in the world that are now improving in human rights. But between all these countries, Saudi Arabia is the worse example that one could come up with, and you unfortunately chose Saudi Arabia as a nation which is moving forward.

While China and Russia are one of the most scientifcly advanced countries in this world however they fail soundly on human rights.

I disagree with you. I totally disagree with you. Russia and China are OK. They are no Sweden or Norway, but they are not worse than the USA or the UK either.

While Nazi Germany was most advanced state in human history (by comperision of that time) They are the worst case of human rights violations...

Yet it doesn't mean that they had not advanced just because they had a poor score in human rights. Respecting human rights is important, but it's not everything.

 

[Desert Fox]

Most of the Nazi sicentist were threatened... Their families were under constant watch by Nazis...

That's not true at all actually, you claimed that Hitler oppressed his people, yet under Hitler Germany's unemployment rate went down from 6-8 million in 1936 to a labor shortage in 1938.

Hitler designed the Volkswagen (people's car) so that the ordinary German could afford an automobile, he made it possible to complete the autobahn. He revived the German automobile industry, and under his rule there was large scale public projects development as well as eradication of poverty and crime.

Why Hitler was popular - The success of the Nazi party in Germany - YouTube

 

[Deno]

Now you're speaking a bit rationally. Well, human rights are universally accepted values. No one doubts that, but it depends how you want to measure the level of human rights in a country. There's no doubt that by any standards, Iran will not be ranked high, but you should also notice that human rights is now used as an excuse to bash your rivals. If you think human rights are global and universal values, then you should agree with me that the world is moving backwards. We could clearly see how the USA is killing innocent civilians around the world and how it is suppressing protestors in the USA. By suppression I don't mean that they are shooting people, but we've seen tens of times that they've tasered people and have pepper sprayed protestors for no justifiable reason. The UK is becoming even worse. There are very few nations in the world that are now improving in human rights. But between all these countries, Saudi Arabia is the worse example that one could come up with, and you unfortunately chose Saudi Arabia as a nation which is moving forward.


I disagree with you. I totally disagree with you. Russia and China are OK. They are no Sweden or Norway, but they are not worse than the USA or the UK either.



Yet it doesn't mean that they had not advanced just because they had a poor score in human rights. Respecting human rights is important, but it's not everything.

State are founde because of peoples need of protection and unity... Human rights is the most important fundemental duty of any state and regime...

Just because US and EU use human rights as a weapon doesn't lessen its value and importance. World is moving backwards because there is not a threat like Soviets for EU and US. Soviets and Communism were the one of the biggest reasons that EU and US gave that much importance to human rights and social duties of states. US is killing people right and left because they are the unchallenged power in this world. Combined military power of top ten cannot reach the level of US. Every country with that much power would act like US. The reason for US goverments actions against its own people is different. In US elections President and senetor candinetes are taking campain money from big companies, thats why US senate and presidents are more interested in the rights of their bussiness peoples that middle and lower class.

China and Russia is not on the same level with US and specially not with UK... How many goverment or country can talk about seperation of a nation from their own land this freely... If something like this happened to China or Russia there won't be a nation to seperate...

Tell me... If Iran was advanced like Nazi Germany and oppressing as Nazi Germany, would you stay there or would you rather live in a Iran as less advanced scientificly and more advanced as rights of people.

 

[SyrianChristianPatriot]

The Syrian people support the President and they want him to hit these terrorists even harder.
The more outside pressure there is on the President the more the Syrian people rally around their President.

 

[Deno]

That's not true at all actually, you claimed that Hitler oppressed his people, yet under Hitler Germany's unemployment rate went down from 6-8 million in 1936 to a labor shortage in 1938.

Hitler designed the Volkswagen (people's car) so that the ordinary German could afford an automobile, he made it possible to complete the autobahn. He revived the German automobile industry, and under his rule there was large scale public projects development as well as eradication of poverty and crime.

Why Hitler was popular - The success of the Nazi party in Germany - YouTube

Desert Fox... I am tired of trying to make you understand that making scientific and economic progress is very and I can't stress this enough, very different than human rights and freedom of people... You can live in a spaceship were all the pople of crew has jobs and srill be under oppressing regime....

 

[Desert Fox]

Desert Fox... I am tired of trying to make you understand that making scientific and economic progress is very and I can't stress this enough, very different than human rights and freedom of people... You can live in a spaceship were all the pople of crew has jobs and srill be under oppressing regime....

You can't have economic and scientific progress while your people are being oppressed, because if that was the case then are American oppressed people? Are Brazilians oppressed people?

You basically can't have one without the other.

 

[silko]

The Syrian people support the President and they want him to hit these terrorists even harder.
The more outside pressure there is on the President the more the Syrian people rally around their President.

you really do believe in what you say. who is this Syrian people, alawis? or shias, sunnis, Christians.

these groups support each other more and more against the butcher who kills innocent people the more help from outside the more assad crumbles.

can't wait for a free Syria from this tyrrant who doesn't care about his people but his sect and power only.

 

[Arian]

State are founde because of peoples need of protection and unity... Human rights is the most important fundemental duty of any state and regime...

I agree that states are founded because of peoples need of protection and unity, that's a valid point, but I disagree on the second part. I believe the most important and fundamental duty of any state is to advocate intellectualism and rationalism. Once a society reaches that level, human rights will improve too. I don't say human rights are unnecessary, you must have human rights that you could advocate intellectualism and rationalism, but I mean that you couldn't single out human rights as the only factor that defines whether a country is moving forward or backward.

Just because US and EU use human rights as a weapon doesn't lessen its value and importance. World is moving backwards because there is not a threat like Soviets for EU and US. Soviets and Communism were the one of the biggest reasons that EU and US gave that much importance to human rights and social duties of states. US is killing people right and left because they are the unchallenged power in this world. Combined military power of top ten cannot reach the level of US. Every country with that much power would act like US. The reason for US goverments actions against its own people is different. In US elections President and senetor candinetes are taking campain money from big companies, thats why US senate and presidents are more interested in the rights of their bussiness peoples that middle and lower class.

I didn't say it lessened the importance of it. So what do you suggest? Do you suggest that we must always create a bogeyman like the soviets or Iran or North Korea or somewhere else to give importance to human rights? I don't support the era of communism in Russia, but even during that era, the USA wasn't a role model for human rights in the world.

China and Russia is not on the same level with US and specially not with UK... How many goverment or country can talk about seperation of a nation from their own land this freely... If something like this happened to China or Russia there won't be a nation to seperate...

Have you forgotten what the British did to the Irish people?
China and Russia aren't perfect examples, but I still disagree with you that they are not on the same level with the US. The USA has domination over world's public opinion by its powerful media, China and Russia don't.

Tell me... If Iran was advanced like Nazi Germany and oppressing as Nazi Germany, would you stay there or would you rather live in a Iran as less advanced scientificly and more advanced as rights of people.

It depends. For a developing country like Iran, I would choose the former, because once the nation is well educated, it will certainly think of ways to improve important values like human rights.

 

[Deno]

You can't have economic and scientific progress while your people are being oppressed, because if that was the case then are American oppressed people? Are Brazilians oppressed people?

You basically can't have one without the other.

Yes you can... Soviet Union was an oppressing regime... Nazi Germany was an opressing regime... and they were advanced as hell... I just showed you the biggest example of advancing with opressing regimes...

Fanatical regimes trough out the history always advanced faster than free states, in the end they lead to destruction but they always advanced pretty fast...

 

[500]

i wonder where those "religious and moral" obligations of Abdullah and Saudi co were when this was taking place:

America did not commit ethnic cleansing of Muslims like those who Iran are hugging with. On contrary, America saved and keeps saving millions of Muslim lives.

 

[Desert Fox]

Yes you can...

No you can't.

Soviet Union was an oppressing regime...

Which is why it dissolved.

Nazi Germany was an opressing regime...

No it wasn't.

and they were advanced as hell...

the NAZI's were, however the Soviets just applied the "quantity has a quality of its own" principle to almost everything.

I just showed you the biggest example of advancing with opressing regimes...

Not really, your logc is futile.

Fanatical regimes trough out the history always advanced faster than free states, in the end they lead to destruction but they always advanced pretty fast...

So that means that USA is a fanatical regime because it is ahead of every country in field of science, technology, and military defense.

 

[Desert Fox]

America did not commit ethnic cleansing of Muslims like those who Iran are hugging with. On contrary, America saved and keeps saving millions of Muslim lives.

America did not, but some American leaders did. Now if you ask any Muslim from any country of the world, and i can bet you they will all have a negative view of Geroge Bush for the unnecessary invasion and occupation of Iraq which led to deaths of thousands of people.

Secondly, when i posted those pictures, my main point was to give example where so called 'religious and moral obligations" of Saudi leadership were not present.

Thirdly, Iran does not have military bases nor has it sworn to protect those countries with whom's leadership the Iranian president is with in those pictures you've posted.

 

[500]

America did not, but some American leaders did. Now if you ask any Muslim from any country of the world, and i can bet you they will all have a negative view of Geroge Bush for the unnecessary invasion and occupation of Iraq which led to deaths of thousands of people.

None of American leaders ethnically cleansed Muslims. And Saddam Hussein which was removed by Dubya was the biggest slaughtered of Muslims in entire history.

 

[Desert Fox]

None of American leaders ethnically cleansed Muslims. And Saddam Hussein which was removed by Dubya was the biggest slaughtered of Muslims in entire history.

It doesn't matter what Saddam Hussein did, because the world didn't stop him when he butchered Iranian and Kurds in 1980's but all of a sudden US wants to invade to overthrow him 15-18 years after he committed those mass murders? So does that mean US invaded to help Muslims, no! US did it for its own interests.

In fact Al-ciada is the biggest killer of Muslims AND Americans yet NATO has actively supported it in Libya and now in Syria.

Secondly, Iran does not have military bases nor has it sworn to protect those countries with whom the Iranian president is with in those pictures you've posted, so you can't compare that to Saudi-US relationship.

 

[Deno]

I agree that states are founded because of peoples need of protection and unity, that's a valid point, but I disagree on the second part. I believe the most important and fundamental duty of any state is to advocate intellectualism and rationalism. Once a society reaches that level, human rights will improve too. I don't say human rights are unnecessary, you must have human rights that you could advocate intellectualism and rationalism, but I mean that you couldn't single out human rights as the only factor that defines whether a country is moving forward or backward.


I didn't say it lessened the importance of it. So what do you suggest? Do you suggest that we must always create a bogeyman like the soviets or Iran or North Korea or somewhere else to give importance to human rights? I don't support the era of communism in Russia, but even during that era, the USA wasn't a role model for human rights in the world.


Have you forgotten what the British did to the Irish people?
China and Russia aren't perfect examples, but I still disagree with you that they are not on the same level with the US. The USA has domination over world's public opinion by its powerful media, China and Russia don't.


It depends. For a developing country like Iran, I would choose the former, because once the nation is well educated, it will certainly think of ways to improve important values like human rights.

I agree that until reaching a certain point in economical and scientific progress human rights comes second but that certain point is already reached if you can manufacture most of the goods you need... Thats why I dislike Iranian regime... They are sitting on the worlds second largest gas fields and third largest oil reserves, they are one of the most industrial countries in Asia and they still act like a newly created country...

No, it was just an observation. ı am not supporting that west needs to create another villian . If I have to be blunt, Europeans are smart enough to control their goverments enough to protect their rights but in US things are different. Smart Americans are weatlhy enough to not be effected by this crisis and really doesn't care much for unlucky ones... Thats why lower class and low-middle class suffered this much in economical crisis while upper middle class and rich go even richer. Even though I actually don't like US citizens life style and US's international policy, I have to admit that they are living in a life style that Turkey or Iran could not gain even after two or three decades...

It wasn't actually that much of a oppression... In the infamous ''Bloody Sunday'' only 27 citizens were killed and some of them were IRA members... You can see from the way bloody sunday potrayed. Only 27 people were killed and it still percieved as a great shame by Britian. While for example, even though it was an accident when 35 smugglers were killed in Turkey people forgot about it after some months... In UK people are freelly talking about seperation of Scotland and no one can even expect U.K to say no and try anything against Scotland. Can you think of something like this in Russia or China? Nearly every month we see a news about a death Uighur or Tibetian protester... Russia razed a city to ground in Chechenia in first term of Putin...

Like I said above somethings can be considired as necessary evil until reaching a certain point. Thats why I can stomach one party regime in Turkey to some extend but I really wouldn't go enough to say Nazis were necessary evil