Saudi Arabia changes Ottoman ‘Empire’ to ‘occupation’ in school textbooks

[Saddam Hussein]

S.Arabia asked The US and The UK to destroy SADDAM and Saudi Arabia financed invasion of Iraq in 1991

The Kuwaiti government fled to Saudi Arabia, and fearing that SADDAM might invade Saudi Arabia next

With approval from Saudi Arabia secured in advance, the coalition with some 800,000 troops attacked Iraq by air in 1991. Saudi pilots flew more than 7,000 sorties and were prominent in the battles around the Saudi town of Ras-al Khafjī......You stupid little bitch

The US presence in Saudi Arabia reached its height during the 1991 Gulf War when some 550,000 coalition troops were based in the Saudi Arabia and Saudi troops helped the US and the UK to defeat the Iraqis and drive them out of Kuwait

You pathetic Arabs always were pawns for American-Israeli plan in the Middle East
today S.Arabia, Egypt and The Uae support The US and Israel to kick Palestinians out of Jerusalem

and S.Arabia-The Uae support the US-Israel to destroy Syria's territorial integrity for creating Kurdistan


And never forget that traitor Kurds and Iran backed shiite Iraqis welcomed invasion of Iraq by the US and the UK .... traitor Kurds and Iran backed shiite Iraqis never fought against the US and the UK





Iran was ruled by Turkic Dynasties for over 926 years until 1925 and today almost half of Iran is TURK
and all Arabs were ruled by the TURKS for centuries

Iraq and Iran fought for 8 years and The US-Israel were so happy
today The US-Israel again wants to start a sectarian war in the region between Iran and Arabs led by S.Arabia
in 1980-1990s smart The US-Israel used stupid SADDAM , but today smart The US-Israel use stupid MBS

Stfu with your shitty half baked history lesson which I already know. And why do you leave out turkey's part in the 1991 war?

**** outta here

 

[Zhukov]

I don't understand why Muslims don't want to move on with time. They keep on arguing about what happened in the past and worst fight with each other over it.
Ottomans were a great power, And the way they Ruled such vast Cultures and lands ranging from Arabs to Balkan Europe.From Central Asians to Africans is simply mind blowing. they ruled for a whopping 623 Years!!! That is nothing like any other Example in recorded history considering the scale of the empire.
But every power every empire every Rule have its limits and Life. Some Empires roll back in different manners, Some under the pressure of changing world geopolitics(French empire, British empire, Portuguese Empire) Some Collapse in themselves or Revolutions (Soviet Union, Russian Empire) Some Fall from Wars and Conquest (Ottoman Empire, Mughal Empire etc)
Long story short By the end of its age. Ottoman Empire was struck by a combination of all of these. They were Crumbling from inside due to lack of reforms, They were largely Disliked by their Arab Subjects, they had very hostile Nighbors in the balkans at their borders ready to lend a hand to any power opposing them. Their resources were dwindling due to losing territories to other powers and rise of industrial Competitors like USA. And they make the blunder to jump into world war when they were in such slim and fragile condition thinking about winning back their lost territories in the Balkans instead of stabilizing their existing territories.
Ask Syrians, Iraqis, Jordanians, People from Hijaz and Najd regions(Modern Saudi Arabia) how they view the ottomans and you will know.Off course they were loved by a large portion of Muslim world Such as Occupied Subcontinent, Central Asia, Anatolia etc. But History is what it is.
And for those who keep on saying that it was British and French Conspiracy to destroy Muslim power so on, Ottomans, during modern era of 18th century were for most part Allies to British and French, Their main rivalry was with Russia and Balkan States. They even Fought wars in alliance with Britain and France against Russia
Arabs have as much right to hate the ottomans as we have the right to love them. They were a Dynasty not Some God sent Prophet or something that no one can have different opinion about them.
It was indeed a Tragedy for Muslims as a Political Power and International Identity no doubt about it. But they fell because of natural process of growth decline and decay. And Modern powerfull State of Turkey is perfect Successor to such great Legacy Considering the dire conditions in which Ottoman empire was dismantled.

 

[Nein]

I don't understand why Muslims don't want to move on with time. They keep on arguing about what happened in the past and worst fight with each other over it.
Ottomans were a great power, And the way they Ruled such vast Cultures and lands ranging from Arabs to Balkan Europe.From Central Asians to Africans is simply mind blowing. they ruled for a whopping 623 Years!!! That is nothing like any other Example in recorded history considering the scale of the empire.
But every power every empire every Rule have its limits and Life. Some Empires roll back in different manners, Some under the pressure of changing world geopolitics(French empire, British empire, Portuguese Empire) Some Collapse in themselves or Revolutions (Soviet Union, Russian Empire) Some Fall from Wars and Conquest (Ottoman Empire, Mughal Empire etc)
Long story short By the end of its age. Ottoman Empire was struck by a combination of all of these. They were Crumbling from inside due to lack of reforms, They were largely Disliked by their Arab Subjects, they had very hostile Nighbors in the balkans at their borders ready to lend a hand to any power opposing them. Their resources were dwindling due to losing territories to other powers and rise of industrial Competitors like USA. And they make the blunder to jump into world war when they were in such slim and fragile condition thinking about winning back their lost territories in the Balkans instead of stabilizing their existing territories.
Ask Syrians, Iraqis, Jordanians, People from Hijaz and Najd regions(Modern Saudi Arabia) how they view the ottomans and you will know.Off course they were loved by a large portion of Muslim world Such as Occupied Subcontinent, Central Asia, Anatolia etc. But History is what it is.
And for those who keep on saying that it was British and French Conspiracy to destroy Muslim power so on, Ottomans, during modern era of 18th century were for most part Allies to British and French, Their main rivalry was with Russia and Balkan States. They even Fought wars in alliance with Britain and France against Russia
Arabs have as much right to hate the ottomans as we have the right to love them. They were a Dynasty not Some God sent Prophet or something that no one can have different opinion about them.
It was indeed a Tragedy for Muslims as a Political Power and International Identity no doubt about it. But they fell because of natural process of growth decline and decay. And Modern powerfull State of Turkey is perfect Successor to such great Legacy Considering the dire conditions in which Ottoman empire was dismantled.

Most Ottoman artifacts or bridges, roads, libraries, mosques, caravanserais have all been obliterated in the Balkans. In the Middle East its no different most of the Ottoman built stuff have already been destroyed or obliterated and people come up and tell me the Ottomans done nothing in the Balkans or the Middle East.

The Saudis obliterated a Ottoman fort to make way for an ugly clocktower skyscraper.

Somehow you have people telling the Turks they dont respect historical artifacts or historical buildings. I hope the Hagia Sophia becomes a mosque because it will be payback to the bastard christians who obliterated our mosques, bridges, madrassas and libraries.

Somehow we gotta respect the sensibilities of the Christians. Fck That.

 

[Wilhelm II]

Why Turks can't understand that we Arabs don't like ottoman era in our lands

 

[azzo]

I'm not buying this "ottomans were just Arabs in disguise" malarkey. By that purely anthropological argument, Brits are just Germans and Norsemen.

Yes there is some heritage there, but they formed a distinct identity on multiple levels, so it is arrogant to claim ottomans in terms of culture and overall racial identity are just an offshoot of Arabs.

Delusions. case and point, the Iranian shiites, they are non-Arabs but could have only accepted people who claimed to be Arabs as their leaders (Sayyed with alleged Hussein lineage)

This whole Islamic civilization is an Arab civilization in its origin. The prophet, the Rashidun, the Umayyads and the Abbasids built this civilization entirely, every other culture that sprung from this civilization was either a leech or a mutation.

For example, let's say you are a Turk and you want to return to the pinnacle of your existence on this earth, the heyday of Turkish dominance, the Ottoman empire, You would need to go back to writing in Arabic alphabet, you would need to pray in Arabic, you would need to go back and revere Arab figures with Arab names, to adorn your Mosques and houses with the names of Arab leaders of the past. Brits who are proud of their Britishness never had to do this with Germanic figures and heroes.

Your leaders would sometimes have to be de-facto rulers and not full fledged rulers just for appearances. Your most knowledgeable and learned spiritual leaders would have to pride themselves on their Arabic language fluency.

This is the dilemma of the Turkish people, their source of pride and loved imperial history would force them to be culturally subservient to another existent culture. A culture that they branched out of but never been part of its conception or the time following that. A culture of people that would had never accepted except by force. Well, those days are over, and I would love to see an Arab "Turkishize" himself by choice nowadays.

But the other way around? exactly. You convert to Islam then immediately seek Islamic knowledge, and in what language that knowledge is in? Arabic. You travel where? Schools and knowledge circles in Saudi Arabia and Egypt. And guess what, after a few years these Muslims have unwavering affinity with those countries then they either stay or go back to their countries, but still reading, writing, and speaking in Arabic and spreading that culture around.

But if the Turks don't like that, and decide to take their culture to a different route, what can they base it on? what would be the foundation of their new true original Turkish culture? I don't know, but for starters they would be to cutting themselves off from the Arabs, who by the way are more than 400 million people compared to a mere 80 million Turks. Actually you would also be cutting yourselves off from Islam and the Quran and people who follow them because that is also pure Arabic culture.

When faced with the same problem, at least the Persians have their pre-Islamic civilization to fall to where they had their own original culture and religion.


You see, as long as there are Muslims, revering Arabs, Arabic, and Arabic culture is an inescapable fate. Even in the past, non ethnically Arab scientists, poets, and leaders who resided in this region could have only achieved what they did because they were culturally Arabs, like Salahuddin who was a Kurd ethnically, but in all reality he was an Arab and spoke Arabic and swore allegiance to the Arab Abbasid caliph. Just like the Ottoman sultans, Salahuddin would have never dared to name himself Caliph, since they were not of a certain Arab lineage.

 

[azzo]

Why Turks can't understand that we Arabs don't like ottoman era in our lands

Don't get me started, they don't understand that they were only a militarized existence, they were not really a civilization, they did not spread culture or science in the middle east. Look at old picture of Mecca under Ottoman rule and compare it with a Turkish city. To this day, all the remnants you see are forts and prisons to ship political prisoners to turkey. Arabs and Arab land were in a miserable state under the Ottomans as opposed to Arab Andalusia where its trade with the Italians gave rise to Venetian and Florentine Italy which ultimately, with AlAadnalus full, caused the Renaissance and every advancement you see around you.

See what the Arab empires of the past have left us with in the middle east to Spain and India, and compare it the more recent leftovers of the Ottoman sultanate.

 

[zaifi]

Holy places belong to Arabs not Turkey Iran or any other country

Holy places belong to Muslim. Not Arabs only.

 

[azzo]

Don't get me started, they don't understand that they were only a militarized existence, they were not really a civilization, they did not spread culture or science in the middle east. Look at old picture of Mecca under Ottoman rule and compare it with a Turkish city. To this day, all the remnants you see are forts and prisons to ship political prisoners to turkey. Arabs and Arab land were in a miserable state under the Ottomans as opposed to Arab Andalusia where its trade with the Italians gave rise to Venetian and Florentine Italy which ultimately, with AlAadnalus full, caused the Renaissance and every advancement you see around you.

See what the Arab empires of the past have left us with in the middle east to Spain and India, and compare it the more recent leftovers of the Ottoman sultanate.

Arab Umayyad mosque on Arab lands, 715 CE

Arab Abbasid mosque on Arab lands, 848 CE

Turkish Ottomon sultanate military fortress (inside the Harram where fighting is forbidden) on Arab lands that has been leveled to the ground by Saudi Arabia:

You see the difference? the Turks did not come to Arab lands to build civilization, they did not come to build civil or religious buildings. They came to build military fortresses in a no fight zone.

The Turks should walk their own path right now, or accept their reality of not being anywhere near leading other peoples of this region. Unless of course you get back to being the military force you once were, and force everyone else to live under a military dictatorship, which we know is impossible in today's world.

 

[Oublious]

Delusions. case and point, the Iranian shiites, they are non-Arabs but could have only accepted people who claimed to be Arabs as their leaders (Sayyed with alleged Hussein lineage)

This whole Islamic civilization is an Arab civilization in its origin. The prophet, the Rashidun, the Umayyads and the Abbasids built this civilization entirely, every other culture that sprung from this civilization was either a leech or a mutation.

For example, let's say you are a Turk and you want to return to the pinnacle of your existence on this earth, the heyday of Turkish dominance, the Ottoman empire, You would need to go back to writing in Arabic alphabet, you would need to pray in Arabic, you would need to go back and revere Arab figures with Arab names, to adorn your Mosques and houses with the names of Arab leaders of the past. Brits who are proud of their Britishness never had to do this with Germanic figures and heroes.

Your leaders would sometimes have to be de-facto rulers and not full fledged rulers just for appearances. Your most knowledgeable and learned spiritual leaders would have to pride themselves on their Arabic language fluency.

This is the dilemma of the Turkish people, their source of pride and loved imperial history would force them to be culturally subservient to another existent culture. A culture that they branched out of but never been part of its conception or the time following that. A culture of people that would had never accepted except by force. Well, those days are over, and I would love to see an Arab "Turkishize" himself by choice nowadays.

But the other way around? exactly. You convert to Islam then immediately seek Islamic knowledge, and in what language that knowledge is in? Arabic. You travel where? Schools and knowledge circles in Saudi Arabia and Egypt. And guess what, after a few years these Muslims have unwavering affinity with those countries then they either stay or go back to their countries, but still reading, writing, and speaking in Arabic and spreading that culture around.

But if the Turks don't like that, and decide to take their culture to a different route, what can they base it on? what would be the foundation of their new true original Turkish culture? I don't know, but for starters they would be to cutting themselves off from the Arabs, who by the way are more than 400 million people compared to a mere 80 million Turks. Actually you would also be cutting yourselves off from Islam and the Quran and people who follow them because that is also pure Arabic culture.

When faced with the same problem, at least the Persians have their pre-Islamic civilization to fall to where they had their own original culture and religion.


You see, as long as there are Muslims, revering Arabs, Arabic, and Arabic culture is an inescapable fate. Even in the past, non ethnically Arab scientists, poets, and leaders who resided in this region could have only achieved what they did because they were culturally Arabs, like Salahuddin who was a Kurd ethnically, but in all reality he was an Arab and spoke Arabic and swore allegiance to the Arab Abbasid caliph. Just like the Ottoman sultans, Salahuddin would have never dared to name himself Caliph, since they were not of a certain Arab lineage.

Another one who don't know nothing about, the Arabs have lived under peace prosperty, what they become is ther own fault and not Turks. Specially Mecca and Medina had special status, they didn't pay taxes, each year they have send golds and gifts, food and medicine from Istanbul. In the Empire the only who have status was Mecca and Medina.


Surrei Hamayun

Your zero knowledge about Mecca and Medina under the Ottomans is nothing but misleading.


And the rest of your text, so you are telling us to become Muslim your should become a Arab?

 

[Timur]

Why Turks can't understand that we Arabs don't like ottoman era in our lands

dear willhelm but you like lawrence of arabia in your lands

we understand very well that you needed an enemy for political reasons.. also we see that tragedy has fallen in many arab states everything pays back muslim nations dont suffer because of nothing it has a reason..

despite all the understanding human nature.. most of our talk are for our own kind and non arabs who should see with whom they are dealing with

 

[masterchief_mirza]

Don't get me started, they don't understand that they were only a militarized existence, they were not really a civilization, they did not spread culture or science in the middle east. Look at old picture of Mecca under Ottoman rule and compare it with a Turkish city. To this day, all the remnants you see are forts and prisons to ship political prisoners to turkey. Arabs and Arab land were in a miserable state under the Ottomans as opposed to Arab Andalusia where its trade with the Italians gave rise to Venetian and Florentine Italy which ultimately, with AlAadnalus full, caused the Renaissance and every advancement you see around you.

See what the Arab empires of the past have left us with in the middle east to Spain and India, and compare it the more recent leftovers of the Ottoman sultanate.

This whole philosophy just gets more and more bizarre. I imagine a lot of people are quietly laughing and ignoring this stuff.

Like I said once already, I hold infinite respect for both Arab and Ottoman civilisations. Islam played a major, if not decisive role in elevating both to dizzying heights of achievement over the course of human history, slightly different in their slant, but both very important and impressive. Personally in terms of military achievement and political conquest/influence, the Ottomans built on and superseded the Arabs. In many other fields, the Arabs dominated.

Let's leave it at that. Many thanks for your time.

 

[Mujahid Memon]

Salaam

Given the Ottoman Empire was the last time Muslims had a powerful player on the international stage, Muslims generally will view them favourably.

Not to mention the last time Muslims had a Caliphate.

The ottomans were an Island of freedom and dignity in a sea of subservience and humiliation for the Muslims.

Ottoman Empire was not a Caliphate. It was an empire, a monarchy, just like today's Gulf monarchs but much better

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Arabs have as much right to hate the ottomans as we have the right to love them. They were a Dynasty not Some God sent Prophet or something that no one can have different opinion about them.

Arab rebels caused the collapse of the Khilafat and Ottoman Empire.

They joined with Kuffar and laid siege to Hijaz, killed any who didn’t follow their racial ideology. (Hence the fort in Makkah which one Poster said is not allowed.)

No, they don’t have that right and they were wrong to do this.

The whole world of Islam is paying for their sin, and we are all suffering due to the Arab betrayal.

Even today, Arabs did not back down from their backstabbing, look at their behavior in relation to Palestine and Kashmir.

They are keeping Egypt poor and worthless, promoting civil wars in Syria, Yemen, Somalia, Sudan. They are funding terrorist groups like PKK and BLA against Turkey and Pakistan.

Ottoman Empire was our Khilafat, our holy state, and we were all united in making it a great nation. No one had the right to break it.

The Arabs are still suffering for their sins, and I am afraid, Israel will make sure that suffering will continue.

 

[Numerous]

The Ottomans were weakened due to the arab revolt but not destroyed. Ultimately it was Mustafa Kamal who dealt the Ottomans khalifa it's their death blow and still much of Turkey today is currently very favourable about him and still upholds his idealogy.

So the arabs can't be blamed for everything.

 

[Oublious]

History is repeating it self, the cursed people jews who made ther religion race is happening with the Arabs. You can only be a muslim if you are born as a Arab.