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Saudi Arabia changes Ottoman ‘Empire’ to ‘occupation’ in school textbooks

I never wrote that Ottomans were a complete and utter failure (lol). What I wrote however is based on historical facts. Objectively speaking, even though most of what is considered Ottoman civilization and culture was either Arab in origin or heavily influenced by Arab culture, including the people and lands, starting with the Ottoman language for a starter too, the 400 years of Ottoman presence in PARTS of the Arab world (1/3 of it more or less) cannot be considered as a success story at all for Arabs. So any Arab praising them is either 1) ignorant of history, 2) pan-Islamist so he/she will but default praise anything Islamic even though if you study Ottoman culture, many Muslims here would be shocked, starting from the art (homosexual at times) to how the various Sultans were murdering their own brothers to stay in power, to constant alliances with Christians, to no Ottoman Sultan ever making Hajj or Umrah once etc.

This is exactly what I was taught in KSA as a kid and what remains the case to this day from what I am aware of. Obviously criticism as well at Islamic history and weak eras and mistakes throughout Muslim history but overall the picture is always positive regardless of which Muslim entity.

On the other hand the official ideology of the Turkish Republic (Turkey is only considered as the "successor state of the Ottomans due to the capital being Istanbul, if the capital had been Syria or Cairo, it would be Syria or Egypt for instance) is a total opposite of the Ottoman one. They are apparently taught about some imaginary Arab betrayal 100 years ago (a few Arab ruling families and select clans - later spread) while they are not teaching how they stole the Caliphate in 1517, 400 years prior, from the Arabs after 1000 years of Arab rule. Also Arab nationalism is bad but Turkish nationalism is great. Nothing more than hypocrisy so of course hard to take seriously.

Turks here think that KSA or Arab countries (at least those never ruled by Arab "nationalists") were anti-Ottoman in terms of education, while nothing could be further from the truth, unlike the anti-Arabism of the early Kemalist Republic, hence the 100 year old new embrace of non-Turkish culture and ideology from Ataturk to distance himself from the Ottomans and by default Arabs/Islam.

Hence many of the ignorant Arabs having a positive viewpoint of Turkey = Ottomans. Nothing else but the same Arabs have no clue about their own history, Kemalism, that the Ottomans were a very bad version of Arab civilization (from the Arab perspective) and that the era was a dark ages for Arab regions part of the Ottomans, either nominally or de facto.

If you take a look at every Arabic Twitter that orignteas from a Turkish source, there will always be heavy emphasis on the Ottomans and hardly anything about Kemalism unlike in Turkey. That is a deliberate tactic, as otherwise there is nothing for Arabs to relate to. Similarly how the ruling Mullah's of Iran emphasize the Arab DNA of their leadership and ideology, contrary to some fire worshipping Iranian pre-Islamic culture (heavily influenced by Semitic culture - in fact most of it but that is another discussion altogether as well).

Even their puppets, say it openly:

I'm not buying this "ottomans were just Arabs in disguise" malarkey. By that purely anthropological argument, Brits are just Germans and Norsemen.

Yes there is some heritage there, but they formed a distinct identity on multiple levels, so it is arrogant to claim ottomans in terms of culture and overall racial identity are just an offshoot of Arabs.
 
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Facts hurt, my Arabized and Turkified Anatolian. They do and 4 people thanked it! 1000 would thank it if there were to be 1000 Arab users on PDF. Pure historical facts that everyone can google as well.

Besides Arabs don't care about the opinions of foreigners. So you can jump and cry for all we care while Erdogan and the Syrians continue to Arabize you further.

Beautiful posts:

I don't know a single Turkish, Western or Asian historian with a good scientific reputation who would agree with you. And I pretty much know that you're aware of this fact.

You are trying to explain a different age with a modern day mindset and terms. Something like a specific ethnic based identity was actually non existing back then.

The Ottomans were heavily influenced by Turkish culture and used Arab, Greek, Persian and other influences to rule the Arab world. It is true that they incorporated Arabian traditions but they did it to rule over you. Just like Western Europe did the same with Italy and Greece.

Besides, even if you are 100 % correct, who really cares? No Muslim outside the Arab world with a certain level of education will chose Arabs over Turks. And that's what's really important.

Good night.

I'm not buying this "ottomans were just Arabs in disguise" malarkey. By that purely anthropological argument, Brits are just Germans and Norsemen.
:tup:
 
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"Ottomans were heavily influenced by Turkish culture and used Arab, Greek, Persian and other influences to rule the Arab world. It is true that they incorporated Arabian traditions but they did it to rule over you. Just like Western Europe did the same with Italy and Greece. "

Yep. This makes sense.
 
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I'm not buying this "ottomans were just Arabs in disguise" malarkey. By that purely anthropological argument, Brits are just Germans and Norsemen.

Yes there is some heritage there, but they formed a distinct identity on multiple levels, so it is arrogant to claim ottomans in terms of culture and overall racial identity are just an offshoot of Arabs.

Most so-called "Ottomans" were ethnic Arab to begin with for starters. Ottoman language was more or less an Arabic dialect. 80% of the vocabulary of the Ottoman language was Arabic. Even after all the reforms by Ataturk, Arabic loanwords are greater than any other foreign language in modern-day Turkish language. The alphabet was Arabic. Ottoman cuisine was completely changed after they gained access to Arab lands from 1517 onwards. Every culinary expert in Turkey will tell you that. Many of the Ottoman dishes were Arab in origin for starters. The whole Ottoman system was a copy of previous Arab caliphates bureaucracy wise. The titles were Arab in origin (Caliph and Sultan). The architecture was heavily influenced by previous Arab architecture. Their entire legitimacy to rule and be accepted by Arabs and non-Arabs alike (Muslims) was their de jure control of Makkah and Madinah.

To make it short, "Ottoman" was as much an Arab entity (if not more) as it was "Turkish". Let us not forget that most Anatolians are actually just Turkified and Arabized people.

In fact to make it even funnier, the Ottoman ruling family were originally nomadic Turks living in Syria (an Arab country - their ancestors were used as mercenaries by Arab caliphates, this is how Turkic presence in the Middle East began - it did not start with their conquest of Anatolia) and since they took power, they constantly intermarried with foreigners so today they are less than 2% Turkic if that can do it - a Google search should confirm this.

In fact many of the Ottoman family members have married Arab royalty or nobility, whether Hashemites like me or the Egyptian royal family.

BTW everything that I wrote is a historical fact that every scholarly will confirm to you or a few searches using Google Books. It is crystal clear.

BTW I did not talk about race in relation to Arabs, other than saying that most "Ottomans" were ethnic Arabs. That and the Ottoman ruling dynasty being (originally) nomadic Turks from the Arab world that came to Anatolia, later to intermarry purely non-Turks. Today there is nothing Turkic about them other than their paternal lineage and surname. Google this yourself as well.

I don't know a single Turkish, Western or Asian historian with a good scientific reputation who would agree with you. And I pretty much know that you're aware of this fact.

You are trying to explain a different age with a modern day mindset and terms. Something like a specific ethnic based identity was actually non existing back then.

The Ottomans were heavily influenced by Turkish culture and used Arab, Greek, Persian and other influences to rule the Arab world. It is true that they incorporated Arabian traditions but they did it to rule over you. Just like Western Europe did the same with Italy and Greece.

Besides, even if you are 100 % correct, who really cares? No Muslim outside the Arab world with a certain level of education will chose Arabs over Turks. And that's what's really important.

Good night.


:tup:

Everyone will, as everything I wrote can be backed up by historical facts. You are unable to refute even 1 single point of mine.

"Ottomans" never ruled the Arab world. Less than 30% and most of it nominal for starters with local Arab rulers loyal to the Ottomans, as in the example of Hijaz (Sharifs of Makkah).

I am correct and as for the last claim, that is definitely bogus. Vast majority of non-Arab Muslims will always pick Arabs first. Hence the wannabe Arab label from every non-Arab Muslim nationalist from Nigeria to Indonesia. Even within the region among all non-Arab ethnic groups. You can deny this all you want. Even on PDF this is spoken about openly. There are very good reasons for that (historically) so that will continue always as we are the originators. Can't be otherwise, really. Even certain Jews are Arabophiles and the conservative/bastions of Judaism will openly attest to the cultural supremacy of the Arab Jews in keeping Jewish culture, traditions and Hebrew alive.

Basically, I already wrote everything that there is to write about this topic. In utmost detail.
 
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Our society generally loves Arabs. Until the social problems posed by 4 million Syrian refugees arose, this type issues was not even open to debate.


It is a very primitive example of racism to base the origin of everything and the cause of all good in your nation. I am not someone who has enough time to waste time with this understanding, but I will correct some of your errors.


Arab culture have no damaged while in Turkish rule , from Egypt, Algeria, Levand to Yemen. The Turkish navy prevented the spread of Spanish-Portuguese inhumane reconquista policy into the African-Arab geography. The truth is, for centuries, the Turks have protected your proud culture.

Although our language is different, we did not try to delete your language and names. To say that Osmalıca is an Arabic dialect is an example of blind ignorance, I prefer never even get into that ...

The case is the use of the Arabic alphabet only. Let me give the following summary information about the foreign words entered into Turkish: There are approximately 120 thousand words in the official Turkish dictionary. 13 thousand words of foreign origin. The most important sources of these foreign words are French words with 5253 words, 5467 Arabic words and 1459 Persian words.

The reason why there are so many Arabic words is that we want to preserve the universal terminology of the principles and concepts of Islamic religion. In everyday conversation, more Persian words are used than Arabic.

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But at the beginning of the story , In the battle of Malazgirt, the Kurds fought with us, but it is not known which Arab overlords jihad with us.


Tuğrul Bey saved the Abbasid caliph from death. While the Buhwayhis wanted to undermine the dignity and honor of the entire Sunni Islamic world, the Arabs found only Turks stands with them. not a single Baduin but turks, and for this reason Tugrul bey has taken the title of the sword of Islam. His descendants carried this precious heritage with honor. Tolunoğulları, or Zengiler, or tons of any other Turkic dynasties at Levand and mezapotamia or Egypt, Turks were able to live in harmony with the Arabs and as required by Islam. That is why the Levant geography and mesopotamia were ruled by the Turks for nearly 1000 years.

Even though we had a different social order, the moral order we brought from Central Asia was consistent with the tolerance of Islam.


Without having sufficient information about the Seljuk period and the migration of Oghuz tribes to Anatolia, all the propositions about the ethnic identity of the region will be inaccurate. I recommend you to read the notes of the 12th century famous Arab traveler Abu'l-Fida about the ethnic identity of Anatolia. He mentions Turkmen obas with 100,000 tents even in Denizli region. Denizli is a plateau region of Aegean region suitable for animal husbandry.

Another source is the 13th-century Marco Polo map. Marco Polo calls Anatolia as Turcomania in his map and states that the dominant ethnic structure is composed of Turks.

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If we talking about Ottomans , After the its first century, the Ottoman Empire was not a nation-state. Particularly, it was intertwined with the Balkan states, followed by Arabs and Kurds. Fatih Mehmed was called Kayzer because his ancestor Orhan Bey's wife was the daughter of the Eastern Roman Emperor.


Evaluating Ottomans as fake-simulated state , which has spread over 3 continents, which its first ascending is the Balkan region, and ruled for 700 years, is another indicator of your level of knowledge. Not just Ottomans, Turks took Islam to the east and west, to places where the Arab tribes could not even imagine.

After the Arabs expulsion of the Iberian peninsula, (which is the Arabs' biggest success in serving Islam) the Turks prevented the spread of Spanish and Portuguese to Africa.


The Ottoman state became an empire with the 15th century. The Persian influence can be mentioned more than the Arab influence. After the first civil constitutional period(around 19. century), the French influence was dominant.


Even when the Ottoman Empire expanded in the Middle East, it did so by destroying other Turkish states, not the Arab states.

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slide1-n.jpg


This is what Europe in need of new geographical discoveries, starting from the Crusades to the 18th century, which could not cross the Turkish wall from the east or south or west.

This map represents the pinnacle of Islamic civilization. Moreover, even the Kazakh-Kalmuk-Uzbek power in Central Asia is not shown. If you can still live your religion freely, if you have preserved your culture and you have not assimilated like "Latin" America , you owe it to this map. It is only the ignorant words if anyone trying to insult the Turks' about contribution to Islamic civilization. So we must laugh and pass.
 
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Some pathetic arabs living in the past are nothing more then stupid excuses ahaha. How good it was back in the days bla bla. Arabs are living ther biggest humiliating times in ther history, oh yes dark ages under the Turks. So 100 years later you are in a shit hole, this is your enlightenment:-), but againg they are acting like lions against Turks pathetic dreamers....

They are coming to the forum and polluting the middle east with dna, history and how good it was back in the history. Brrrrr ahahaha....

This is nothing more then feeding your alter ego ahahaha. You have zero input in Islamic world, economic and science. Yes back in the days you was, but today you are nothing.
 
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IRAN IS MOST POWERFUL COUNTRY IN ASIA BALLISTIC MISSILE 15M CEP.



DONT BE SO HARSH BROTHER THEY NEED HELP AND COOPERATION FROM IRAN AND TURKEY TOO CAN BENEFIT WITH COOPERATION. IRAN HAS ALTERNATIVE TO S300 BAVAR 373.



CONSTANTIPONPLE IS GONNA GET CONQUERED AGAIN AND IRAN AND IMAM AL MAHDI WILL SAVE YOU LOL.

And now say hello to our new recruited Iranian troll. Thus, title's time expired.

I wish you all the best , if anyone has still patience.
 
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LOL IRAN IS IN CONTROL, IRAN IS WINNING ON ALL FRONTS, TURKEY IS NOT KNOW WHAT TO DO IN SYRIA AND HAS TO MAKE CONCESSSIONS TO IRAN AND PUTIN. IRAN HAS STRATEGIC PATIENCE. IRAN HAS INDIGENOUS AA WHILE TURKEY HAS BUY S400. IRAN BAVAR 373 IS POTENT MORE THAN S300. IRAN IS FINE TUNING BALLISTIC MISSILES WITH 15M CEP. TURKEY IS BUYING ENGINE FROM UK.

TURKEY HAS NO HARD INFLUENCE. IRAN SHOT DOWN US DRONE TURKEY SAID WE STILL WANT FRIENDSHIP WITH NATO.
Thank you for enlightening us , Miss/mister Caps Lock.
 
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Buhwayhis wanted to undermine the dignity and honor of the entire Sunni Islamic world
the correct term is buyids. and how they wanted to undermine the dignity of the sunni world??
 
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B-52 bombers took off from Incirlik and the airbase has enabled the enforcement of the northern no-fly zone 1991-2003, you little bitch.

Then you ruined Syria and created a Kurdistan, now look at you. Saddam and Khomeini should have aligned and conquered you instead.


S.Arabia asked The US and The UK to destroy SADDAM and Saudi Arabia financed invasion of Iraq in 1991

The Kuwaiti government fled to Saudi Arabia, and fearing that SADDAM might invade Saudi Arabia next

With approval from Saudi Arabia secured in advance, the coalition with some 800,000 troops attacked Iraq by air in 1991. Saudi pilots flew more than 7,000 sorties and were prominent in the battles around the Saudi town of Ras-al Khafjī......You stupid little bitch

The US presence in Saudi Arabia reached its height during the 1991 Gulf War when some 550,000 coalition troops were based in the Saudi Arabia and Saudi troops helped the US and the UK to defeat the Iraqis and drive them out of Kuwait

You pathetic Arabs always were pawns for American-Israeli plan in the Middle East
today S.Arabia, Egypt and The Uae support The US and Israel to kick Palestinians out of Jerusalem

and S.Arabia-The Uae support the US-Israel to destroy Syria's territorial integrity for creating Kurdistan


And never forget that traitor Kurds and Iran backed shiite Iraqis welcomed invasion of Iraq by the US and the UK .... traitor Kurds and Iran backed shiite Iraqis never fought against the US and the UK



Saddam and Khomeini should have aligned and conquered you instead.

Iran was ruled by Turkic Dynasties for over 926 years until 1925 and today almost half of Iran is TURK
and all Arabs were ruled by the TURKS for centuries

Iraq and Iran fought for 8 years and The US-Israel were so happy
today The US-Israel again wants to start a sectarian war in the region between Iran and Arabs led by S.Arabia
in 1980-1990s smart The US-Israel used stupid SADDAM , but today smart The US-Israel use stupid MBS
 
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Why you don't have any problem with a Turkish ruler?
And why you don't like Arabs

I didn't say I have any problem with any ruler of any ethnicity. You did not even understand what I was saying so far.

I merely said I don't recognize the exclusive right of any one ethnicity to rule over all Muslims. I don't think any unity of the Islamic world is possible in the future, but if it becomes possible all people of all ethnicity should get a fair go at rulership based on merit, not on lineage or ethnicity.
 
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