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Saudi Arabia becomes latest buyer of Russian S-400 system

WHAT A HISTORIC MOMENT !!!
DLX3769XcAAyzVm.jpg
Grandiose meeting..
There were 6 or 8 invitations by President Putin to the King of Saudi Arabia to visit Russia, they were all accepted and postponed till this visit.. It will be save to assume that if there were any differences in opinion between the two, they have been resolved prior to this historical visit.. this is a new strategic alliance in the making.. or was it already made through preparations for this visit..
 
@The SC @Bubblegum Crisis

Brothers, my worry with becoming a nuclear threshold state (which we will eventually become not far from now once all 16 + nuclear power plants will be built by 2030 and the existing nuclear infrastructure improves further etc.) in theory, is not whether it is a possibility or not (it is) but whether certain entities (USA and Israel in particular) would try to make life as difficult as possible (economic, political - I am ruling out the military option here but it can not be ruled out completely) for us. It's in that light that I am putting my guards up so to speak knowing the history of Arab countries trying to acquire nuclear weapons (Iraq, Syria and Libya) and what was done to them by the West/Israel in order for that to not occur. I know, different times and different stories but nevertheless still somewhat relevant.

I am not sure that S-400 would be enough either but it is a very good beginning to say the least.

WHAT A HISTORIC MOMENT !!!
DLX3769XcAAyzVm.jpg

That photo is just too cool. Fitting for some kind of apocalyptic movie.:lol:
 
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THAAD, Patriot, and the S-400. You can't just ask for better combination.

Indeed. And there won't be an interoperability issue with all 3 systems.

What will most likely happen is they'll be deployed in a layered format. THAAD being primarily designed to impact ballistic missiles at a very high altitude without destroying the warhead makes it specific to nuclear ballistic missiles so it eliminates not only a nuclear detonation, but also the subsequent radiation fallout. So that system will most likely be relegated to intercepting that specific threat.

Then the S-400 and PAC-3 will be used to neutralize incoming air threats in aircraft, UAVs, cruise missiles and any other form of incoming missile threat be it surface to surface or ship to surface or air to surface. The PAC-3 could also be used as a secondary stop gap measure to THAAD. Even though the latter is designed to operate within its own, layered system, it wouldn't hurt to combine the Patriot with it being essentially the same manufacturer.

There's also a separate deal being worked on with Lockheed Martin for a specific command and control where they'll most likely work out exactly how to create an interoperable missile command structure that will not only include these 3 S2A missile systems, but and entire military command structure.

Can you tell me who is operating the current Patriot batteries in KSA, and who are the people being sent for THAAD training?

BTW, we've seen the PAC-3 with the UAE military but so far I think we've only seen PAC-2 in Saudi. I know they've order the upgrade in 2015 (I think) but has it actually arrived and do you know if it is already being deployed in Saudi yet?
 
@The SC @Bubblegum Crisis

Brothers, my worry with becoming a nuclear threshold state (which we will eventually become not far from now once all 16 + nuclear power plants will be built by 2030 and the existing nuclear infrastructure improves further etc.) in theory, is not whether it is a possibility or not (it is) but whether certain entities (USA and Israel in particular) would try to make life as difficult as possible (economic, political - I am ruling out the military option here but it can not be ruled out completely) for us. It's in that light that I am putting my guards up so to speak knowing the history of Arab countries trying to acquire nuclear weapons (Iraq, Syria and Libya) and what was done to them by the West/Israel in order for that to not occur. I know, different times and different stories but nevertheless still somewhat relevant.

I am not sure that S-400 would be enough either but it is a very good beginning to say the least.



That photo is just too cool. Fitting for some kind of apocalyptic movie.:lol:
I am not talking about nuclear weapons, just the mastery of the full nuclear cycle for civilian use under the IAEA supervision.. because nuclear technology use spans so many advanced scientific fields nowadays..

As for nuclear bombs.. there are some efficient counters:

South Korea is close to developing a blackout bomb that disrupts power systems

The so-called "blackout bomb" is operated by spreading chemically treated carbonized graphite filaments to electrical facilities to create a short circuit and disrupt the power grid.

http://arabic.yonhapnews.co.kr/news/2017/10/08/0200000000AAR20171008000400885.html
 
Types of targets that the S-400 system can destroy: See bellow..the second image..

upload_2017-10-9_19-42-25.png


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Ankara: Turkey may cancel the purchase of the "S-400" in the event that Russia does not agree on the joint production of the system


https://arabic.rt.com/world/903376-...دم-موافقة-روسيا-على-الإنتاج-المشترك-للمنظومة/
 
Saudi Arabia has four basic ToT:

1 - The sustainability and durability of the system and this includes the manufacture of parts for the system + manufacturing the system's ammunition

2 - The technical knowledge of the maintenance of the system, with maintenance contracts allowing KSA to have the capabilities of radar maintenance, missile maintenance and computer system, etc...

3 - The ability to upgrade and develop the system in the future as well as its components like the radar, optical or missiles. Similar to the Patriot Pak 2 and Pak 3 development scheme to newer versions, because it wants the S-400 to serve for 20 or more years.

4 - The introduction of Saudi components like electronic and communication devices

The Russian would not oppose such demands, that is why they have approved them in the general outlines showing that they don't have a problem with these requirements in general terms. But asked to sit down now to discuss the minute details of What kind of maintenance do you want? What kind of spare parts? and what type of development?

Saudi Arabia wants 4-8 batteries of the S-400 system..It does not want a factory to produce the S-400 but wants a factory to produce spare parts and a factory for the ammunition for S-400 systems, maintenance facilities and maintenance capabilities, to attain the Saudi goal of system sustainability..
 
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Exactly !

But even that, they (USA, Isra...) did not want us to get it.

KSA reserves uranium (PDF) :

Uranium from Phosphates


...

URGENT
The Kingdom: Israel stands in the way of achieving the desire of the peoples of the region to live in a zone free of the nuclear threat.

قناة الإخبارية @alekhbariyatv


^^

Concerning the F-22 and B-2 Spirit, it's just a great big joke.

At the present time, it is not known whether he is able to detect the F-35 in time before he is struck.


...
Russians do not joke with a system that is protecting Moscow itself.. one of their very old systems downed the F-117 over Serbia... What about their latest tech with AESA and frequency hoping radars, very sophisticated missiles and what have you..
 
...
Russians do not joke with a system that is protecting Moscow itself.. one of their very old systems downed the F-117 over Serbia... What about their latest tech with AESA and frequency hoping radars, very sophisticated missiles and what have you..

^^

1- The F-117 (1983) is a very old technology compared to the F-22 (2005) and the B-2 (1997).

2- The F-117 was shot down in a very special situation. It's not about to breed anytime soon.


Quote :

How to Take Down an F-117

November 21, 2005

The Serbian battery commander, whose missiles downed an American F-16, and, most impressively, an F-117, in 1999, has retired, as a colonel, and revealed many of the techniques he used to achieve all this. Colonel Dani Zoltan, in 1999, commanded the 3rd battery of the 250th Missile Brigade. He had search and control radars, as well as a TV tracking unit. The battery had four quad launchers for the 21 foot long, 880 pound SA-3 missiles. The SA-3 entered service in 1961 and, while it had undergone some upgrades, was considered a minor threat to NATO aircraft. Zoltan was an example of how an imaginative and energetic leader can make a big difference. While Zoltan's peers and superiors were pretty demoralized with the electronic countermeasures NATO (especially American) aircraft used to support their bombing missions, he believed he could still turn his ancient missiles into lethal weapons. The list of measures he took, and the results he got, should be warning to any who believe that superior technology alone will provide a decisive edge in combat. People still make a big difference. In addition to shooting down two aircraft, Zoltan's battery caused dozens of others to abort their bombing missions to escape his unexpectedly accurate missiles. This is how he did it.

--- Zoltan had about 200 troops under his command. He got to know them well, trained hard and made sure everyone could do what was expected of them. This level of quality leadership was essential, for Zoltan's achievements were a group effort.

--- Zoltan used a lot of effective techniques that American air defense experts expected, but did not expect to encounter because of poor leadership by the enemy. For example, Zoltan knew that his major foe was HARM (anti-radar) missiles and electronic detection systems used by the Americans, as well as smart bombs from aircraft who had spotted him. To get around this, he used landlines for all his communications (no cell phones or radio). This was more of a hassle, often requiring him to use messengers on foot or in cars. But it meant the American intel people overhead were never sure where he was.

--- His radars and missile launchers were moved frequently, meaning that some of his people were always busy looking for new sites to set up in, or setting up or taking down the equipment. His battery traveled over 100,000 kilometers during the 78 day NATO bombing campaign, just to avoid getting hit. They did, and his troops knew all that effort was worth the effort.

--- The Serbs had spies outside the Italian airbase most of the bombers operated from. When the bombers took off, the information on what aircraft they, and how many, quickly made it to Zoltan and the other battery commanders.

--- Zoltan studied all the information he could get on American stealth technology, and the F-117. There was a lot of unclassified data, and speculation, out there. He developed some ideas on how to beat stealth, based on the fact that the technology didn't make the F-117 invisible to radar, just very to get, and keep, a good idea of exactly where the aircraft was. Zoltan figured out how to tweak his radars to get a better lock on stealth type targets. This has not been discussed openly.

--- The Serbs also set up a system of human observers, who would report on sightings of bombers entering Serbia, and track their progress.

--- The spies and observers enabled Zoltan to keep his radars on for a minimal amount of time. This made it difficult for the American SEAD (Suppression of Enemy Air Defenses) to use their HARM missiles (that homed in on radar transmissions.) Zoltan never lost a radar to a HARM missile.

--- Zoltan used the human spotters and brief use of radar, with short range shots at American bombers. The SA-3 was guided from the ground, so you had to use surprise to get an accurate shot in before the target used jamming and evasive maneuvers to make the missile miss. The F-117 he shot down was only 13 kilometers away.

Zoltan got some help from his enemies. The NATO commanders often sent their bombers in along the same routes, and didn't make a big effort to find out if hotshots like Zoltan were down there, and do something about it. Never underestimate your enemy.

Air Defense


...


3- What protects Moscow, it is the nuclear deterrent of Russia, not the S-400.


...
 
^^

1- The F-117 (1983) is a very old technology compared to the F-22 (2005) and the B-2 (1997).

2- The F-117 was shot down in a very special situation. It's not about to breed anytime soon.


Quote :

How to Take Down an F-117

November 21, 2005

The Serbian battery commander, whose missiles downed an American F-16, and, most impressively, an F-117, in 1999, has retired, as a colonel, and revealed many of the techniques he used to achieve all this. Colonel Dani Zoltan, in 1999, commanded the 3rd battery of the 250th Missile Brigade. He had search and control radars, as well as a TV tracking unit. The battery had four quad launchers for the 21 foot long, 880 pound SA-3 missiles. The SA-3 entered service in 1961 and, while it had undergone some upgrades, was considered a minor threat to NATO aircraft. Zoltan was an example of how an imaginative and energetic leader can make a big difference. While Zoltan's peers and superiors were pretty demoralized with the electronic countermeasures NATO (especially American) aircraft used to support their bombing missions, he believed he could still turn his ancient missiles into lethal weapons. The list of measures he took, and the results he got, should be warning to any who believe that superior technology alone will provide a decisive edge in combat. People still make a big difference. In addition to shooting down two aircraft, Zoltan's battery caused dozens of others to abort their bombing missions to escape his unexpectedly accurate missiles. This is how he did it.

--- Zoltan had about 200 troops under his command. He got to know them well, trained hard and made sure everyone could do what was expected of them. This level of quality leadership was essential, for Zoltan's achievements were a group effort.

--- Zoltan used a lot of effective techniques that American air defense experts expected, but did not expect to encounter because of poor leadership by the enemy. For example, Zoltan knew that his major foe was HARM (anti-radar) missiles and electronic detection systems used by the Americans, as well as smart bombs from aircraft who had spotted him. To get around this, he used landlines for all his communications (no cell phones or radio). This was more of a hassle, often requiring him to use messengers on foot or in cars. But it meant the American intel people overhead were never sure where he was.

--- His radars and missile launchers were moved frequently, meaning that some of his people were always busy looking for new sites to set up in, or setting up or taking down the equipment. His battery traveled over 100,000 kilometers during the 78 day NATO bombing campaign, just to avoid getting hit. They did, and his troops knew all that effort was worth the effort.

--- The Serbs had spies outside the Italian airbase most of the bombers operated from. When the bombers took off, the information on what aircraft they, and how many, quickly made it to Zoltan and the other battery commanders.

--- Zoltan studied all the information he could get on American stealth technology, and the F-117. There was a lot of unclassified data, and speculation, out there. He developed some ideas on how to beat stealth, based on the fact that the technology didn't make the F-117 invisible to radar, just very to get, and keep, a good idea of exactly where the aircraft was. Zoltan figured out how to tweak his radars to get a better lock on stealth type targets. This has not been discussed openly.

--- The Serbs also set up a system of human observers, who would report on sightings of bombers entering Serbia, and track their progress.

--- The spies and observers enabled Zoltan to keep his radars on for a minimal amount of time. This made it difficult for the American SEAD (Suppression of Enemy Air Defenses) to use their HARM missiles (that homed in on radar transmissions.) Zoltan never lost a radar to a HARM missile.

--- Zoltan used the human spotters and brief use of radar, with short range shots at American bombers. The SA-3 was guided from the ground, so you had to use surprise to get an accurate shot in before the target used jamming and evasive maneuvers to make the missile miss. The F-117 he shot down was only 13 kilometers away.

Zoltan got some help from his enemies. The NATO commanders often sent their bombers in along the same routes, and didn't make a big effort to find out if hotshots like Zoltan were down there, and do something about it. Never underestimate your enemy.

Air Defense


...


3- What protects Moscow, it is the nuclear deterrent of Russia, not the S-400.


...
I am familiar with the F-117 story, nonetheless it was shut down over Serbia, and some stories came later to save face.. It was the most modern warplane in the world at that time..and the only stealth fighter in the world.. The Russian system that has downed it was an old system at that same time..

There is always a high probability of a conventional war before any nuclear war, in which the latter will be the extreme case, if the whole nation survival is threatened or all its armies are on the verge of collapse, or even like in WW2 when the losses are too heavy to bear..but that was a response by one nation holding the Nuclear monopoly at the time.. which is not the case with Russia.. hence a conventional war in Europe is the most likely scenario.. and S-400 plays an efficient deterrent role in preventing it..
 
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I presume Iran will not be pleased by this. Thought Russia was in their corner, from weapons to Syria. Are the Saudis no longer interested in ousting Assad too? Interesting times.
Saudis are buying it to deny Iran the S-400s
 
I am familiar with the F-117 story, nonetheless it was shut down over Serrbia, and some stories came later to save face..

No, this is how it is produced.


It was the most modern warplane in the world at that time..and the only stealth fighter in the world.. The Russian system that has downed it was an old system at that same time..

No there was another, the ‘SR-71 Blackbird’.


There is always a high probability of a conventional war before any nuclear war, in which the latter will be the extreme case, if the whole nation survival is threatened or all its armies are on the verge of collapse, or even like in WW2 when the losses are too heavy to bear..but that was a response by one nation holding the Nuclear monopoly at the time.. which is not the case with Russia.. hence a conventional war in Europe is the most likely scenario..
and S-400 plays an efficient deterrent role in preventing it..

For USA - With F-35, F-22 and B-2 -, I do not believe.



...
 
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There are many stories to the downing of the F-117 in Serbia.. I suggest you find the Story told by the Serbian commander who downed it..

The Blackbird was not a fighter, it was a strategic reconnaissance plane..

I know these are the high tech US stealth fighters and bomber.. but Anti-stealth radar technologies have evolved tremendously also.. read about the L-band radars.. it will give you an idea..
 
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