S-400 anti-aircraft missile systems delivery to India can begin in 2020

[Dr Gupta]

Why you think when 123 agreement was concluded India and Russia signed the first nuclear agreement?

Equations have changed. Russia and US were most cordial at that time with talk of disarmament and so on and so forth. All that changed

Nothing is permanent nor static the US and Russia still do much business and still are aligned on many issues

India recently signed a strategic oil deal with Russia it gives us a footprint into their 2nd biggest reserve. Both Russia and US are vital partners but for various reasons.

Putin rather likes trump he made some flattering comments and trump said he could work well with Putin

 

[MilSpec]

On a serious note do you know if we getting the higher range missile?

@Abingdonboy what you make of it?

I don't know anything about the acquisition, I have been away from defense circles for quite a bit now.

Coming back to the discussion

- Would you characterize the purchase - strategic or tactical?

It is strategic in nature, same a PMUII

- How much stock can we put on S-400, there is vast division of opinion regarding it's efficacy with Russians hyping it's virtues and other parties indicating that it can be countered easily with EW and or saturation attacks which is likely to be the case in major conflict.

There is no system in the world that can be defeated, s400's can be defeated too, but you would need the might of Nato behind it do so. The ground based jamming non-sense we are seeing in the forum is laughable.

- Are there other comparable systems in which we have access to in arms market? If not then are there any domestic projects in development. I am worried we are offering Russia a sweetheart deal, S-400s in return for financing other projects.

Patriot comes close, and S400/500 comes from years of development of SAM's that Russia did not stop development like other projects.

- How much areas can one of these system can cover - We probably have around 40- 50 HVT in India.

The great thing about long range SAM's is good placement can cover multiple location, but this one in nature can be used as offensive tool for airspace denial.

- Is it likely to change the military balance b/w India-Pakistan and if Yes then to what extent? Does it provide us with extra options in Kargil like skirmishes or in deterring a possible counter-strike against Indian targets in case of Indian attack on terrorist camps on Pakistani Soil.

@Sven @Freyja @Oscar @PARIKRAMA

,
That is difficult to gauge, It provides surface to air capability, it does not give us instant Spine. If you take the fight to Pakistan, be rest assured they will respond one way or the other and there will be damages to us, For us to take such decisions , we need spine not SAM's.
For Kargil like situation, AD was never an issue, what you needed was given by tel-aviv, once bitten, kitten got smarter.

 

[Dr Gupta]

300km is the max that is allowed for export for a missile hence why Brahmos comes in under (although secretly we can modify for a higher range)

If we were to get the 400km missile it would be classified and done secretly but Russia having helped us with Arihant and other strategic projects would not refuse to sell it to us if we desired it.

 

[anant_s]

Sirs,
a general question.
Since cold war, ballistic missile air defence has been touted by designers as shield that can't be breached. History tells us, truth is quite far away. Even Ronald Reagan's Star wars program with all the billions of tax payers dollars it gulped down, could not provide a solution or platform that is 100% breach proof.
In this context, India investing an astronomical sum (USD 6 billion as mentioned here), is it a wise decision in terms of cost benefit (or risk avoidance) analysis.

@MilSpec @Oscar

 

[Dr Gupta]

The reaction time of under 8 secs is rapid!

Deployment time is 5-10 minutes too

 

[Djinn]

There is no system in the world that can be defeated, s400's can be defeated too, but you would need the might of Nato behind it do so. The ground based jamming non-sense we are seeing in the forum is laughable.

Don't wanna sound like a grammar Nazi but shouldn't it be 'that cannot be defeated', Unless you meant something else?
And no i dont believe that you would need the might of NATO to do so. Chinese are getting S-400 as well and most probably they will receive it before India..............The rest is pretty simple from here.

 

[Dr Gupta]

Don't wanna sound like a grammar Nazi but shouldn't it be 'that cannot be defeated', Unless you meant something else?
And no i dont believe that you would need the might of NATO to do so. Chinese are getting S-400 as well and most probably they will receive it before India..............The rest is pretty simple from here.

True they were the first country to place a order and import it, Russia has to fulfil her domestic orders prior to selling it abroad. This year our budget has other priorities (doubt we will even sign the Rafale deal till next year in my view)

The most curious aspect is where they are going to be based? this will give us a idea for what strategic reason they are bought for. Will it be to protect cities? or will it be protect airbases, key installations etc or perhaps a mix?

Personally New Delhi and Mumbai I feel would get protected it makes sense.

Moscow region is protected by 10 such systems or will be I should say

 

[MilSpec]

I am worried we are offering Russia a sweetheart deal, S-400s in return for financing other projects.

You shouldn't be, Russia has been more than supplier for India, and that is one of the reasons India invests in there homegrown projects, and like every projects we will have dis-agreements. But strategic relations with India are as solid as ever.

 

[Dr Gupta]

Russia set up four S-400 regiments defending national airspace in the Moscow region, the Baltic exclave of Kaliningrad, and the Eastern Military District.

As of September 2013, the Russian Armed Forces had five S-400 regiments: two in Moscow, one in the Pacific fleet, one in the Baltic Fleet, and one in the Southern Military District. From 2014, the army was to receive two to three sets of regimental units of S-400 systems every year.[86] Another S-400 regiment was to be put on combat duty around Moscow by the end of 2013. Russia plans to have 28 S-400 regiments by 2020, each comprising two or three battalions with four systems each, mainly in maritime and border area

 

[MilSpec]

Don't wanna sound like a grammar Nazi but shouldn't it be 'that cannot be defeated', Unless you meant something else?
And no i dont believe that you would need the might of NATO to do so. Chinese are getting S-400 as well and most probably they will receive it before India..............The rest is pretty simple from here.

Thanks for correcting the typo,
best of luck for the simple part then.

 

[BDforever]

Bad news for you guys..
https://defence.pk/threads/its-official-india-will-postpone-s-400-triumf-purchase.430084/

 

[MilSpec]

Sirs,
a general question.
Since cold war, ballistic missile air defence has been touted by designers as shield that can't be breached. History tells us, truth is quite far away. Even Ronald Reagan's Star wars program with all the billions of tax payers dollars it gulped down, could not provide a solution or platform that is 100% breach proof.
In this context, India investing an astronomical sum (USD 6 billion as mentioned here), is it a wise decision in terms of cost benefit (or risk avoidance) analysis.

@MilSpec @Oscar

I don't know if six billion dollars is a budgetary estimate or the actual quoted price, given that the radar tracking stations will be able to network with the existing PMUII's it is a wise investment.

 

[monitor]

Bad news for you guys..
https://defence.pk/threads/its-official-india-will-postpone-s-400-triumf-purchase.430084/

It said order postpone dosen't canceling the deal may be one two year late .. so the beast could coming 2019~2020

 

[Ankit Kumar 002]

It said order postpone dosen't canceling the deal may be one two year late .. so the beast could coming 2019~2020

Wrong assumptions made by the author of your quoted material.The deal was not going to happen in this fiscal always , but unlike this fiscal , the next one will not have 13 billion alone for pensions. So the proposition that money will be less is wrong.

 

[dadeechi]

No major Russian systems would be inducted until BJP looses full majority.