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RUSSIAN PLANES INTERCEPT ISRAELIS JETS OVER LEBANON

Conventional.
OK.

Israel have a functioning BMDS since 2017 encompassing David Sling, Arrow 2 and Arrow 3 systems. Collectively, these systems can significantly reduce kinetic effectiveness of a Russian (cruise and ballistic) missile barrage on Israeli positions. And Israel will get the opportunity to respond and strike at relevant Russian assets.

Russia can fire hundreds of ballistic and cruise missiles from ship, submarine, aircraft and land in one barrage.
They have more than enough assets to do this.
My point was in regards to cruise missiles only. Yes, they have a large number of ballistic missiles in their arsenal but how many they can launch in a short span depend upon number of TEL and where TEL are positioned.

Lol. This a joke?
Russian ABMs would shoot nearly every single one down and vast majority of Russia would be left intact.
When Russia fires it's own nuclear missiles back.....
Russian ABM systems have endo- atmospheric intercept capability, and only Moscow is heavily guarded among Russian cities.

Jericho-III is an ICBM (extremely fast and huge arc). Even S-500 would struggle to stop one, and it needs to be in the right spot.

I was referring to a conventional engagement scenario. Jericho-III won't be used unless Israel's very existence is threatened.
 
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When will Russia down and Israeli jet? That remains to be seen.
 
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What chance would a su34 have had against f16s? The IAF could easily have embarrassed the Russians.
Depends on what weapon they carry , its certain the engagement happen beyond vvisual range so at the end the one with the best missile will win.

But honestly who in its right mind think Russian or Israeli fighter would have attacked each other while there was no breach of border .
At most Russia iif want to be serious aabout the iincident will give Syria something that can engage Israel fighters over Lebanon and actually hit them .I'm sure they never directly attack each other.
 
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Russia successfully jammed US electronic warfare aircraft. Russia has been jamming Ukrainian and western equipment in Ukraine too. Russian EW capability are probably better then Chinese and actually tested in combat. The reason Israeli F-16 have only suffered 1 loss in Syria is because they fly below radar coverage and fire standoff weapons. The IL-20 was flying high and can not outrun or outturn a SAM like an F-16, it probably doesn't even have flares since it was never designed to operate over contested airspace. It was shot down because Syrian SAM operators were firing wildly.
Didn't Syria claim, while Russian media backed up that claim, that an Israeli F-35, a couple of F-15s, and a few more F-16s were shot down too? How come you now claim "Israeli F-16 have only suffered 1 loss"?

They do give a "fuk" because Russia can hit dozens of Israeli targets including parked aircraft and other targets via cruise missiles from submarines, ships and aircraft hundreds of km away. Russia can also attack the Israeli navy (probably sink the entire navy within days) and causes major problems for Israel by launching cyber attacks to cripple the military and civilian sectors. Israel wants no of it thus they are playing nice and cooperating. At the end Israel is not NATO, no one will fight Russia for Israel.
Your cruise missiles were fired at Syria but landed in Iran for some reason, I think we are able to intercept most of them. Sink the entire navy? You're forgetting you're in an area with absolutely no air dominance. Our F-35s alone are enough to sink each and every surface vessel you have, as you cannot even detect it, it can drop a JDAM or a RAMPAGE missile on your ships. Your submarines would be dealt with too. The fact that your submarine is bigger only means it can launch more missiles, it won't hand it any advantage in a battle against our submarines.
Do you know what we did to the Syrians and Egyptians in 1973 when they had more and better naval ships?
Our helicopters flew low and slow, right at the sea level, and simulated Israeli ships, Egyptians and Syrians launched some soviet made anti ship missiles at those helicopters, those helicopters simply broke off, and a volley of Gabriel missiles were launched at the Syrian and Egyptian ships, effectively destroying them all.
This just shows you that tactics are superior to numbers, and even quality (Which isn't the case anymore, western technology is far superior)
You're not in our league in terms of cyberwarfare, that's coming from someone that has knowledge about Israel's capabilities in those terms.

T/W (changes depends on fuel and weapons loads) and does not necessarily equal maneuverability. The SU-34 still can pull off 9 G turns because it is bases on the SU-27 with added conards and better fly-by-wire for added maneuverability. F-15 practical T/W is also 1.26


As for comparison the F-14 had a 0.88-1.0 t/w ratio but this is irrelevant for the most part since the SU-34 is far more manuverable then you think and far more maneuverable then the mig-23.
It equals energy retention, something very crucial for maneuverability

Formation flying is what Israel trains for, it makes it harder to get locked on to because it appears as one large object on radar.

That answer your question as to why Syrians fired on an object with "50m2 rcs."
But you claimed that the Syrians fired at the Israeli missiles, not Israeli F-16s in formation (And they weren't in formation) with a much smaller RCS than an IL-20



The F-35 visibility is worse then SU-27.
Nope, and add in the fact that the F-35 has the DAS system and technically the F-35's visibility cannot be physically better.
 
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Didn't Syria claim, while Russian media backed up that claim, that an Israeli F-35, a couple of F-15s, and a few more F-16s were shot down too? How come you now claim "Israeli F-16 have only suffered 1 loss"?



Is there a point to this rant about media? The US media also reported the same thing, which Syria claimed. As for the F-35, Israel acknowledged one was damaged by supposed bird strike.



Your cruise missiles were fired at Syria but landed in Iran for some reason, I think we are able to intercept most of them.




What is your point about a few cruise missiles? Tomahawks have also had malfunctions in the past. Just the other week an F-35s landing gear collapse, Israeli Patriots couldn't shoot down a Russian drone and neither could Israeli F-15s so your point is mute and deviating from the topic.



Israel would have a low success rate in stopping a saturated cruise/ballistic missile attack with decoys. It's life.



Sink the entire navy? You're forgetting you're in an area with absolutely no air dominance.




Air dominance means nothing when submarines are involved. f-16, F-15 and F-35 aircraft cannot prevent submarines from sinking ships and other submarines.




Our F-35s alone are enough to sink each and every surface vessel you have, as you cannot even detect it, it can drop a JDAM or a RAMPAGE missile on your ships.



No they can't. Many problems with what you claim:


1. Most modern Russian ships have anti air capabilities. F-35s can not carry enough anti ship munitions to do anything significant even if it can reach those ships. Good luck sinking 360+ naval vessels with a handful of F-35s.


2. Israel has a small handful of F-35s, at least 15-20% would be down for maintenance.


3. F-35s don't have the range to reach Russian surface vessels in the Mediterranean, Caspian or Black Sea nor would anyone allow Israel to use their airspace to attack Russia.


5. If Israeli F-35 would go through Iran to reach the Caspian Sea they would need a lot of aerial refuelers, thus they would not have the element of surprise and some Israeli aircraft, would be shot down.



Your submarines would be dealt with too.




Russia could probably destroy 4 Dolphin submarines with just unmanned Poseidon submarines. Those Israeli Dolphins also have limited endurance so Israel is in no position to 'deal' with 62 Russian submarines and a naval fleet of 362 vessels. The Israeli navy has no endurance to confront the Russian navy nor does the Israeli airforce. Russia can lob cruise and ballistic missiles from thousands of km away and there is nothing Israel can do about it.


Russia could use these nuclear powered drones. Russia is lightyears ahead of Israel in naval technology and this is only what Russia wants to show.



IMG_2663.JPG


The fact that your submarine is bigger only means it can launch more missiles, it won't hand it any advantage in a battle against our submarines.




Utter nonsense, Israel has 4 operational submarines. Russia has 62. Israeli has no access to the Caspian or Black Sea so even if Israel wanted to attack the Russian navy it wouldn't be able to. Russia has better submarines and much more of them including other naval assents that Israel lacks.


Those US ships shadowed by Russian submarines could easily be Israeli:


IMG_2667.JPG



western technology is far superior)




Yea, like how Russia embarrassed the British navy in Syria by detecting and harassing its most advanced submarine? Or how the US lost 10,000 aircraft in Vietnam?



You're not in our league in terms of cyberwarfare, that's coming from someone that has knowledge about Israel's capabilities in those terms.



:lol:






But you claimed that the Syrians fired at the Israeli missiles, not Israeli F-16s in formation (And they weren't in formation) with a much smaller RCS than an IL-20



Go back and read what I wrote and yes the Israeli F-16s were in formation. EW systems can also give elusions of multiple aircraft.

IMG_2666.PNG



Older radars with low resolution also can not distinguish between a formation of F-16s and 1 large aircraft. It simply can not separate what is what.

IMG_2664.PNG
 
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Well, not my debate, but highlighting some points.

1. Israeli PAC-2 system shot down a Russian Forpost drone on July 12, 2018. Israeli media sources declared the drone as under possession of SAA (but this was a cover up). Syrian rebels checked the remains of this drone, and identified it as Russian.

2. Israeli Arrow 3 MDS is state-of-the-art with intercept ceiling on par with S-500 (100 KM), extremely maneuverable interceptors and advanced decoy discrimination capabilities. Its AESA radar system can identify airborne targets from over 500 KM away, and Arrow 3 MDS can share its data with complementing systems such as Arrow 2 and David Sling. Israeli BMDS capability is decent on the whole.

3. Russian navy is large and powerful on the whole, but a part of it is stationed in the Mediterranean. Israel is creating a fleet of highly versatile Seagull USV (Unmanned Surface Vessel) for Anti-Submarine Warfare missions since 2016; small, autonomous and armed with torpedoes. Great force-multplier in this regard. Israeli ingenuity and tactics continue to impress.
 
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5. If Israeli F-35 would go through Iran to reach the Caspian Sea they would need a lot of aerial refuelers, thus they would not have the element of surprise and some Israeli aircraft, would be shot down.

What are you on bro? You think their planes could survive in Iranian airspace? :lol:
Even s-200 managed to shoot down their systems never mind the whole array of Iranian systems. Iran's airdefence would make mince meat out of them.
 
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Is there a point to this rant about media? The US media also reported the same thing, which Syria claimed. As for the F-35, Israel acknowledged one was damaged by supposed bird strike.
US Media never reported such things, at most they reported "Syria claims ..."
Yes, it was a birdstrike, but you Russians and Syrians tried to sieze that opportunity, stating that baseless claim that it was shot down by the S-200.

What is your point about a few cruise missiles? Tomahawks have also had malfunctions in the past. Just the other week an F-35s landing gear collapse, Israeli Patriots couldn't shoot down a Russian drone and neither could Israeli F-15s so your point is mute and deviating from the topic.



Israel would have a low success rate in stopping a saturated cruise/ballistic missile attack with decoys. It's life.
Those Tomahawks clearly had no issue embarrassing you and Assad, all you could do is claim you shot them all down but the damage was already done. We already shot down Russian drones, the only reason we couldn't shoot down the drone was because the drone was small, flew in a low speed and in a low altitude.
Israel already can identify between different types of

Air dominance means nothing when submarines are involved. f-16, F-15 and F-35 aircraft cannot prevent submarines from sinking ships and other submarines.
Air dominance can clear your surface fleet which allows our surface fleets, submarines and other anti-submarine warfare vehicles to move freely against yours.
No they can't. Many problems with what you claim:


1. Most modern Russian ships have anti air capabilities. F-35s can not carry enough anti ship munitions to do anything significant even if it can reach those ships. Good luck sinking 360+ naval vessels with a handful of F-35s.


2. Israel has a small handful of F-35s, at least 15-20% would be down for maintenance.


3. F-35s don't have the range to reach Russian surface vessels in the Mediterranean, Caspian or Black Sea nor would anyone allow Israel to use their airspace to attack Russia.


5. If Israeli F-35 would go through Iran to reach the Caspian Sea they would need a lot of aerial refuelers, thus they would not have the element of surprise and some Israeli aircraft, would be shot down.
How many ships do you have in the Mediterranean ? one JDAM is enough to destroy a ship, or at least put it out of combat service. Of course an F-35 can reach your ship, it has a 1,200 kilometer combat radius with 2 tons of bombs carried internally, and that's without midair refueling, and don't forget Israel has standoff weapons with over 250km range. This is 1,200km:
bf1cccd0b53f24ae7968050c817bc689.png

I'm pretty sure the ships those pose threat against Israel are within that range.

We don't need to reach the Caspian or the Black Sea, and besides, in such a war, which will indefinitely become a world war, Israel will be allied with other nations that would totally allow Israel to strike the areas you've mentioned, if not strike them by themselves
Russia could probably destroy 4 Dolphin submarines with just unmanned Poseidon submarines. Those Israeli Dolphins also have limited endurance so Israel is in no position to 'deal' with 62 Russian submarines and a naval fleet of 362 vessels. The Israeli navy has no endurance to confront the Russian navy nor does the Israeli airforce. Russia can lob cruise and ballistic missiles from thousands of km away and there is nothing Israel can do about it.


Russia could use these nuclear powered drones. Russia is lightyears ahead of Israel in naval technology and this is only what Russia wants to show.
Of course it can.
Tell me, how many of those 62 submarines and 362 vessels are anywhere near Israeli shores?
How many can Russia afford to send to Israel, considering the fact that you have to protect such a big area with those ships? Compared to your size, your navy is TINY. We don't need to protect a lot of territory, thus we don't need a huge navy.

Utter nonsense, Israel has 4 operational submarines. Russia has 62. Israeli has no access to the Caspian or Black Sea so even if Israel wanted to attack the Russian navy it wouldn't be able to. Russia has better submarines and much more of them including other naval assents that Israel lacks.


Those US ships shadowed by Russian submarines could easily be Israeli:
Again, how many of those 62 can you send? Your navies pose no threats in the Caspian or Black Sea, cruise missiles would be answered by cruise missiles and our air defenses. Who told you Russia have better submarines? Your submarines are known to be good for nuclear radiation, nothing more.

I bet those US ships were aware of your submarines, it's just that they had no legitimization to blow it up. You aren't at war, why are you so proud at achieving a glance at American destroyer?
 
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Why are they different...Why they don’t fu..ck with Hizbollah?

They messed with Hezbollah that they refused to launch hundreds of thousands of rockets to destroy Israel. Why have they not?
 
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They messed with Hezbollah that they refused to launch hundreds of thousands of rockets to destroy Israel. Why have they not?
Not true..they killed some Hizbollah and Hizbollah replied in kind..kill some Israelis on their border, and Israel didn’t try to escalate it to a war..because thy are no idiots.
 
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Not true..they killed some Hizbollah and Hizbollah replied in kind..kill some Israelis on their border, and Israel didn’t try to escalate it to a war..because thy are no idiots.

Hezbollah could have destroy Israel easily with the missiles and rockets, so whats stopping them? Wasn't their goal was to destroy Israel?
 
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Hezbollah could have destroy Israel easily with the missiles and rockets, so whats stopping them? Wasn't their goal was to destroy Israel?
Their goal is to defend themselves and the territorial integrity from Lebanon..from Israel...
 
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Their goal is to defend themselves and the territorial integrity from Lebanon..from Israel...

Their goal, along with Iran's is to remove Israel. They serve Iran's interests.
 
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img_2666-png.501031

Go back and read what I wrote and yes the Israeli F-16s were in formation. EW systems can also give elusions of multiple aircraft.
Those pics are fake for imbecile kids. F-16 were over Haifa in 22:00.

As for nooklear drones - I already explained you that nonsense before.
 
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Those pics are fake for imbecile kids. F-16 were over Haifa in 22:00.

As for nooklear drones - I already explained you that nonsense before.


What is I told you I know a radar oporator that was in Syria at the time? :lol:

Yes we believe you and Israeli propaganda because both of you have a stellar record of being truthful. :lol: The Israelis are usually the loudest barkers, they always put on theatrical play at the UN, bark in the media about world leaders such as Obama and Urdogan but mostly stayed quite over the events that took place in Syria despite the S-300 delivery. The Israelis are guilty as sin and they know it.

BTW, @500 you posted that same pic (I just took a close up of what you posted) then you tried to use it for your argument....imbecile indeed :lol:


You are the Israeli propaganda ministry. You post so much nonsense it makes my head spin. Last time you were denying Israeli aircraft fly low over Syria so you posted a random video from 2014 of unknown aircraft that are probably flying over Lebonon as your 'proof'.
 
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