RUSSIAN PLANES INTERCEPT ISRAELIS JETS OVER LEBANON

[500]

The SU-34 is still maneuverable enough to be able to get into a turning fight and kill.

It's still a Flanker after all and all Flankers even with full weapon loads can do Cobras and high AOA. Besides maneuverability is not as important as the element of surprise or causing the enemy to play along into your weaknesses. This is basic stuff that Israel and many others exploited wile fighting more agile opponents.

No, its not maneuverable at all. Plus it has terrible view from its cockpit. I doubt Su-34 pilots are trained to preform air to air battles beside some defense maneuvering.

Israel attacked targets from roughly the same vicinity of the IL-20, per usual Israeli aircraft fly low to avoid SAMs and radars then climbed, released their weapons, then dove back down and flew away. At which point the IL-20 was heading back to Syria so apparently Syrian SAM operators mistook it for a missile. Syrians fire some 20 missiles and one hit the IL-20. The crew off course never expected it and did not even have time to decent to a safer altitude even if they know what was about to happen.

1) Syrian operators mistook Il-20 with RCS 50 m2+ witth SDB with RCS 0.1 m? Really?
2) Why did they risk 15 Russian crew members for tiny chance (less than 1%) to shot down something?
3) S-200 is not designed to take missile and bombs, why did they fire at all?

They do give a "fuk" because Russia can hit dozens of Israeli targets including parked aircraft and other targets via cruise missiles from submarines, ships and aircraft hundreds of km away. Russia can also attack the Israeli navy (probably sink the entire navy within days) and causes major problems for Israel by launching cyber attacks to cripple the military and civilian sectors. Israel wants no of it thus they are playing nice and cooperating. At the end Israel is not NATO, no one will fight Russia for Israel.

Even USSR, 2nd economy in the world with dozens of satellites around the world did not dare to attack Israel directly. Russia is 13th economy and does not have any satellites.

 

[ptldM3]

No, its not maneuverable at all.

Utter nonsense, it is comparable to an F-15. All it is is a Flanker with avionics optimized for strike missions, along with tandem seats, armored cockpit and reinforced landing gear.

Plus it has terrible view from its cockpit. I doubt Su-34 pilots are trained to preform air to air battles beside some defense maneuvering.

The F-35 also has a terrible view from the cockpit...do F-35 pilots also not known how to dogfight?


Russia only a dozen or 2 dozen deticated fighters in Syria at any time, thus SU-34s in Syria are meant to complement the fighters, they are armed with air-to-air missiles. Only a fool would believe the SU-34 pilots in Syria don't train to fight. Especially when fighter pilots often are trained on multiple aircraft.


Those missiles can outturn any F-16.

1) Syrian operators mistook Il-20 with RCS 50 m2+ witth SDB with RCS 0.1 m? Really?

Israeli F-16s fly in formation, thus older radars with low resolution see them as one large target.

2) Why did they risk 15 Russian crew members for tiny chance (less than 1%) to shot down something?

Why are you asking silly hypothetical questions? As if I or anyone knows why that SAM operator(s) decided to fire.

3) S-200 is not designed to take missile and bombs, why did they fire at all?

Because the Syrians already downed 1 F-16 using the S-200 and they are the most numerous systems in Syria.

Even USSR, 2nd economy in the world with dozens of satellites around the world did not dare to attack Israel directly. Russia is 13th economy and does not have any satellites.

And Israel did not dare to attack Pakistan either when Pakistani pilots started downing Israeli aircraft. The Soviets also did nothing when Pakistan downed some Soviet transport helicopters and supposedly an SU-25 over Afghanistan. Pakistan must be a super power? Or perhaps it was not worth the military expenditure and financial burden to attack Pakistan?

 

[Jinn Baba]

What chance would a su34 have had against f16s? The IAF could easily have embarrassed the Russians.

 

[ptldM3]

What chance would a su34 have had against f16s? The IAF could easily have embarrassed the Russians.

This is nonsense, we are talking about a Flanker probably flown by Russia's better trained pilots armed with missiles that can out turn any F-16 that would be protected S-400s, S-300s and likely SU-35s would also be scrambled. The F-16 is not a wonder weapon and Israeli pilots are not sent from God.

Remember the Israeli F-16 that was downed by that old S-200 was shot down because it broke formation (was high enough for S-200) to take a peak at the aftermath of their attack. The F-16s over lebon were at an altitude high enough to be shot down by S-400/S-300 batteries.


Whoever is more aggressive wins. If those SU-34s decided to fire on the F-16s they would Likely be downed. If Israeli pilots decided to fire first then they would win. Israelis have always been attackers traditionally that is usually why they have been successful in the past.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Utter nonsense, it is comparable to an F-15. All it is is a Flanker with avionics optimized for strike missions, along with tandem seats, armored cockpit and reinforced landing gear.

The F-35 also has a terrible view from the cockpit...do F-35 pilots also not known how to dogfight?


Russia only a dozen or 2 dozen deticated fighters in Syria at any time, thus SU-34s in Syria are meant to complement the fighters, they are armed with air-to-air missiles. Only a fool would believe the SU-34 pilots in Syria don't train to fight. Especially when fighter pilots often are trained on multiple aircraft.


Those missiles can outturn any F-16.

View attachment 500489








Israeli F-16s fly in formation, thus older radars with low resolution see them as one large target.









Why are you asking silly hypothetical questions? As if I or anyone knows why that SAM operator(s) decided to fire.









Because the Syrians already downed 1 F-16 using the S-200 and they are the most numerous systems in Syria.










And Israel did not dare to attack Pakistan either when Pakistani pilots started downing Israeli aircraft. The Soviets also did nothing when Pakistan downed some Soviet transport helicopters and supposedly an SU-25 over Afghanistan. Pakistan must be a super power? Or perhaps it was not worth the military expenditure and financial burden to attack Pakistan?

USSR did conduct airspace violations into Pak territory but PAF had obsolete aircraft and no radar coverage...
USSR also stationed its airbase close to Pak and moved its troops to Pak border.. with PAF brass ordering PAF not to fire until fired upon the USSR and Afghan aircraft.....

All that changed however... after USSR got a bit too belligerent.... and ending up getting its jets (along with DRPAF screwed)... specially after PAF inducted F-16s.. and one of the SU pilots later became your Vice President.

 

[500]

Utter nonsense, it is comparable to an F-15. All it is is a Flanker with avionics optimized for strike missions, along with tandem seats, armored cockpit and reinforced landing gear.

LOL. In fighter configuration Su-34 has TW ratio about 0.9 while F-15 - 1.2. In terms of maneuverability Su-34 is worse than MiG-23 which were shot down in 1982 in masses.

The F-35 also has a terrible view from the cockpit...do F-35 pilots also not known how to dogfight?

No, F-35 has good view + DAS system which makes it the best actually.

Those missiles can outturn any F-16.

R-27? Thats ancient junk.

Israeli F-16s fly in formation, thus older radars with low resolution see them as one large target.

No they dont. Plus F-16 did not come close to area where IL-22 was shot down. U claimed they mistook Il-20 for Israeli missiles.

Why are you asking silly hypothetical questions? As if I or anyone knows why that SAM operator(s) decided to fire.

Its the most relevant question actually. It shows the utter unprofessionalism of Syrians and Russians.

Because the Syrians already downed 1 F-16 using the S-200 and they are the most numerous systems in Syria.

Thats why I said less than 1% (I am not talking that only one they managed to shot down the Israeli jet it was when it flying deep inside Israel at high altitude not expecting attack).

And Israel did not dare to attack Pakistan either when Pakistani pilots started downing Israeli aircraft. The Soviets also did nothing when Pakistan downed some Soviet transport helicopters and supposedly an SU-25 over Afghanistan. Pakistan must be a super power? Or perhaps it was not worth the military expenditure and financial burden to attack Pakistan?

Unlike u i never threaten to attack Pakistan.

 

[Beast]

3. Russia successfully jammed US electronic warfare aircraft. Russia has been jamming Ukrainian and western equipment in Ukraine too. Russian EW capability are probably better then Chinese and actually tested in combat. The reason Israeli F-16 have only suffered 1 loss in Syria is because they fly below radar coverage and fire standoff weapons. The IL-20 was flying high and can not outrun or outturn a SAM like an F-16, it probably doesn't even have flares since it was never designed to operate over contested airspace. It was shot down because Syrian SAM operators were firing wildly.

I dare to say Chinese EW in some area is even better than some of Israel and US system. Our huge R&D funds, investment in military and civilian dual use electronic sector are starting to bear fruit. Russia while lacking money and planning are still stuck in the Soviet era EW system. Israel with much superior EW purposely misled the Syrian Air Defense to attack the IL-20 EW plane. Current Russia are no more the Soviet era military power, you are badly lacking behind.

 

[ptldM3]

LOL. In fighter configuration Su-34 has TW ratio about 0.9 while F-15 - 1.2. In terms of maneuverability Su-34 is worse than MiG-23 which were shot down in 1982 in masses.

T/W (changes depends on fuel and weapons loads) and does not necessarily equal maneuverability. The SU-34 still can pull off 9 G turns because it is bases on the SU-27 with added conards and better fly-by-wire for added maneuverability. F-15 practical T/W is also 1.26


As for comparison the F-14 had a 0.88-1.0 t/w ratio but this is irrelevant for the most part since the SU-34 is far more manuverable then you think and far more maneuverable then the mig-23.

No, F-35 has good view + DAS system which makes it the best actually.

If Israel used turds for weapons you would praise them for having excellent visibility too. That bulkhead just gives it an outstanding view

R-27? Thats ancient junk.

The Aim-9 was in service since 1953

R-27 since 1983.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIM-9_Sidewinder

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-27_(air-to-air_missile)

No they dont.

Again amateur nonsense. Israeli F-16 were filmed flying low and in formation over Syria in the past. One of the Israeli pilots that was shot down also said he was leading a formation before he got knocked out after he broke formation.


There is a reason for formation flying:

Formation flying is what Israel trains for, it makes it harder to get locked on to because it appears as one large object on radar.

That answer your question as to why Syrians fired on an object with "50m2 rcs."

Plus F-16 did not come close to area where IL-22 was shot down.

No one said anything about F-16s comming close (which is a relative and vague term when talking about fighters traveling at high speeds). We are talking vector heading, what radars see and timing.

Its most relevant question actually. It shows the utter unprofessionalism of Syrians and Russians.

It's not Russia's fault Israelis decided to launch attacks on Syria within proximity of the IL-20 when it was heading back (flying same trajectory as Israeli missiles) We can clearly see who acted unprofessionally and rash.

Unlike u i never threaten to attack Pakistan.

Yes I know you never threatened to attack Pakistan. You are some random guy in Israel. The point is Pakistani pilots downed at least 5 Israeli aircraft and Israel did nothing. You were the one boasting that the USSR never attacked Israel thus the USSR was weak and Russia even weaker.

Your own logic often backfires.

I dare to say Chinese EW in some area is even better than some of Israel and US system. Our huge R&D funds, investment in military and civilian dual use electronic sector are starting to bear fruit.

Those are just baseless opinions. Russia jammed and "disabled" US elections warfare aircraft over Syria according to US officials. They are jamming Ukrainian and western systems in Ukraine. China has completely unproven systems and no combat expirence to see how their hardware works so they can improve.

Russia while lacking money and planning are still stuck in the Soviet era EW system. Israel with much superior EW purposely misled the Syrian Air Defense to attack the IL-20 EW plane. Current Russia are no more the Soviet era military power, you are badly lacking behind

You don't even know what happened or what you are talking about. No one was missled. Israeli aircraft flew in formation low to avoid radar, popped up to fire their missiles at which point they would appear as one large object to old radars Syrians use with low resolution. The IL-20 is not meant to outrun missiles or deploy counter measures. The IL-20 was downed by the same missile that down the Israeli F-16, both aircraft were not expecting to be hit.


If the S-200 downed an F-16 and IL-20 it would just as easily down a Chinese EW aircraft. There was no magic EW systems used by Israelis and the Syrians were at fault by hitting a reconnaissance aircraft. The Syrians also down a Turkish F-4, it too was not expecting to be shot down and it was also a reconnaissance aircraft.

Syria shot down an F-16, F-4 and IL-20 (all were not expecting it) It just proves any aircraft can be shot down if the pilots are not alert.

 

[Beast]

You don't even know what happened or what you are talking about. No one was missled. Israeli aircraft flew in formation low to avoid radar, popped up to fire their missiles at which point they would appear as one large object to old radars Syrians use with low resolution. The IL-20 is not meant to outrun missiles or deploy counter measures. The IL-20 was downed by the same missile that down the Israeli F-16, both aircraft were not expecting to be hit.


If the S-200 down and F-16 and IL-20 it would just as easily down a Chinese EW aircraft. There was no magic EW systems used by Israelis and the Syrians were at fault by hitting a reconnaissance aircraft.

LOL.. You think you still lived in the era where Soviet Union has a edge over the Chinese? Our EW has advanced while Russia with broke bank and loss of talent has stagnant until now still depend on Soviet Era times. I am sure if Chinese EW is in place of Russian. It will give Israel a run of their money. Soviet Union collapsed more than 20 years ago. You need to wake up and realized the new world. The rising of Chinese is undeniable.

The Isreal obviously play their EW game well and humiliate and troll the Russian/Syria.

 

[ptldM3]

LOL.. You think you still lived in the era where Soviet Union has a edge over the Chinese?

Do you ever do anything other than boast about Chinese ubber tech? Russia designed the Z-10 for China and China keep purchasing equipment from Russia that they will copy.


China can't even develop proper turbine engines while Russia developed Hypersonic glide vehicles, unmanned attack submarines, nuclear powered submarines and tanks with unamannes turrets, to name a few....China can't develop anything inavative or ground breaking but they are good at copying and stealing.

Our EW has advanced while Russia with broke bank and loss of talent has stagnant until now still depend on Soviet Era times.

What is "loss of talent"? Russia has the highest rate of college graduates in the world and China comes to Russia for design help, what China can't develop it steals or buys from Russia. Prior to Russia selling SU-27s and dozens of other systems the Chinese were still flying Mig-19s. Even Pakistan doesn't buy Chinese systems if alternatives are available.

I am sure if Chinese EW is in place of Russian. It will give Israel a run of their money.

Um...okay.

The Isreal obviously play their EW game well and humiliate and troll the Russian/Syria.

Stop hallucinating. Israel didn't do anything special. They flew low, release their weapons and flew away. The Syrians were careless and hit the unsuspecting IL-20.

Israelis must have also trolled themselves when Syria downed an F-16 and the Turks trolled themselves after Syrians down their F-4.

 

[500]

T/W (changes depends on fuel and weapons loads) and does not necessarily equal maneuverability. The SU-34 still can pull off 9 G turns because it is bases on the SU-27 with added conards and better fly-by-wire for added maneuverability. F-15 practical T/W is also 1.26

I am talking about typical scenario: 4 AAM + half fuel.

As for comparison the F-14 had a 0.88-1.0 t/w ratio but this is irrelevant for the most part since the SU-34 is far more manuverable then you think and far more maneuverable then the mig-23.

F-14 is a dedicated interceptor, it has very big speed and great accepelartion thanks to swept wings.

If Israel used turds for weapons you would praise them for having excellent visibility too. That bulkhead just gives it an outstanding view

You know nothing plus post F-35B picture. F-35 visibility is similar to Su-27, probably better:

The Aim-9 was in service since 1953

Modern AIM-9 have completely different guidance system.

R-27 since 1983.

Outdated passive guidance.

Again amateur nonsense. Israeli F-16 were filmed flying low and in formation over Syria in the past. One of the Israeli pilots that was shot down also said he was leading a formation before he got knocked out after he broke formation.

F-16 fly in pairs and never really close. Close formations are only in air shows.

That answer your question as to why Syrians fired on an object with "50m2 rcs."

They reason they fired is because they are incompetent.

No one said anything about F-16s comming close (which is a relative and vague term when talking about fighters traveling at high speeds). We are talking vector heading, what radars see and timing.

F-16 never entred that sector.

It's not Russia's fault Israelis decided to launch attacks on Syria within proximity of the IL-20 when it was heading back (flying same trajectory as Israeli missiles) We can clearly see who acted unprofessionally and rash.

1) During the attack Il-20 was over Idlib. It was shot down when Israeli jets returned to Israel.
2) Even if trajectory of missiles was same it was a huge incompetence to fire S-200 there. Because S-200 has zero chance to shot down missiles but 99% chance to shot down Il-20.

Yes I know you never threatened to attack Pakistan. You are some random guy in Israel. The point is Pakistani pilots downed at least 5 Israeli aircraft and Israel did nothing. You were the one boasting that the USSR never attacked Israel thus the USSR was weak and Russia even weaker.

n the Israeli F-16, both aircraft were not expecting to be hit.


If the S-200 downed an F-16 and IL-20 it would just as easily down a Chinese EW aircraft. There was no magic EW systems used by Israelis and the Syrians were at fault by hitting a reconnaissance aircraft. The Syrians also down a Turkish F-4, it too was not expecting to be shot down and it was also a reconnaissance aircraft.

Syria shot down an F-16, F-4 and IL-20 (all were not expecting it) It just proves any aircraft can be shot down if the pilots are not alert.[/QUOTE]
Pakistani pilots did not shot down 5 Israeli aicraft. Anyway I dont understand why u bring it on, since i dont talk about attacking Pakistan and you talk about attacking Israel.

 

[Beast]

Do you ever do anything other than boast about Chinese ubber tech? Russia designed the Z-10 for China and China keep me purchasing equipment from Russia that they will copy.







What is "loss of talent"? Russia has the highest rate of college graduates in the world and China comes to Russia for design help, what China can't develop it steals or buys from Russia. Prior to Russia selling SU-27s and dozens of other systems the Chinese were still flying Mig-19s. Even Pakistan doesn't buy Chinese systems if alternatives are available.







Um...okay.








Stop hallucinating. Israel didn't do anything special. They flew low, release their weapons and flew away. The Syrians were careless and hit the unsuspecting IL-20.

Israelis must have also trolled themselves when Syria downed an F-16 and the Turks trolled themselves after Syrians down their F-4.

LOL..

Probably this design is steal from Russian too?


As for Z-10 gunship

https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-built-chinese-z10-helicopter-2013-3/?IR=T

After Kamov completed the design, the Russian design bureau verified the design via testing. Kamov then delivered the design to China and the Project 941 concept was accepted by that country's government for further development, [Mikheyev] says. Kamov did not participate in any further developmental work on the WZ-10, [Mikheyev] insists.

I dont know how Russian build the Z-10 since they only provided the design. The final conclusion of what type of sensor , engine and the integration is totally done by the Chinese. Somehow or rather the Russian start to brag as if they do most of the job?

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/russia-installed-chinese-engines-on-her-buyan-class-corvettes.429970/

Mighty Russian need to buy Chinese engine for your warship?

The copy has surpassed the original?

Far superior and well maintenance engine with upograde EW and AESA radar while Russian Kuznetsov carrier still stuck in Soviet era. Look at the smoke. Worst than WWI coal powered warship steamer in year 2017. No wonder the western are laughing at Russian.

While Chinese CV-16 Liaoning.

Not a single smoke spotted when steaming her way when on sea.

It more of you bragging about how superior Russian is here while try to pull down Chinese with misleading info. and there while in reality, Russian is a badly maul bear that lose its tooth. The IL-20 is still in WWII era. Not even IFF system in fact and easily get shot down by friendly fire? More like you cant get passed the reality of superior ISrael EW jammed the Syria air defense system and misled them to shoot down IL-20.

Without Chinese USD 400 billion gas deal, most likely Russia economy will collapse. While China can easily fill up our gas demand from Iran, Iraqi and Saudi who are desperate to sell more oil. We Chinese just do you a favour by buying from you. You Russian need to thank Chinese for saving your butt. Consider it a return of favour for your 50s soviet sino friendship military assist. Sooner or later, gas will be quite irrelevant with more EV put into service as technology gets better. Russia will left with very little valuable to export.

 

[ptldM3]

F-14 is a dedicated interceptor, it has very big speed and great accepelartion thanks to swept wings.

And the Mig-23 was also a dedicated interceptor/ground attack, yet it didn't stop you from mentioning its maneuverability...

You know nothing plus post F-35B picture. F-35 visibility is similar to Su-27, probably better:

The F-35 visibility is worse then SU-27.

Modern AIM-9 have completely different guidance system.


Outdated passive guidance.

And the newest R-27 compared to the original also has a new quidance system but of course the R-27 will never beat the AIM-9 in age, the AIM-9 was around when dinosaurs roamed earth.

F-16 fly in pairs and never really close. Close formations are only in air shows.

Study aerial warfare from WW2 to present day. All aircraft fly in formation. Israel F-4s would fly in formation to trick Arabs into thinking there was less aircraft to bait Arabs. The US used it in Vietnam in Operation Line Backer to mimick Vietnamese into thinking they were bombers, again it was a baiting tactic. B-52s flew in formation to have a stronger EW shield. It's used all the time, there is a fighter base close to where I live and they always fly in formation.

) During the attack Il-20 was over Idlib. It was shot down when Israeli jets returned to Israel.
2) Even if trajectory of missiles was same it was a huge incompetence to fire S-200 there. Because S-200 has zero chance to shot down missiles but 99% chance to shot down Il-20.

You seem to love to argue. I already stated that Syrians made a mistake. As for the exact details, they are not fully disclosed to the public.

Pakistani pilots did not shot down 5 Israeli aicraft. Anyway I dont understand why u bring it on, since i dont talk about attacking Pakistan and you talk about attacking Israel.

Pakistani pilots did shoot down 5 Israeli aircraft, and I mentioned it because you boasted that the USSR, and now Russia never dared to attack Israel. My rebuttal was that neither did Israel dare attack Pakistan.

 

[Ceylal]

Putin is not stupid, he knows the consequences of retaliating against israel all too well. Apart from that he's a supporter of the zionazi state against the Muslim nations. He's just using that moronic Syrian baboon to have a say in ME. When his usage will come to an end Putin will simply give the green signal to his zionazi friends to finish him off through a precision air-strike against his presidential rat hole in Damascus.

Oh please, in these two cases, he’s playing stupid..like in the past Russia has never sided 100% with her friend like The US do..This time is different, 2 Russians planes have been shot down...It is his *** on the line..It shows when it comes down to it, Russian’s , just like Arab states, drop their pants and let time to heal their wounds..

Israel is different. Russia is not going to do anything. Even Putin the tough guy.

Why are they different...Why they don’t fu..ck with Hizbollah?

 

[ptldM3]

LOL..

Probably this design is steal from Russian too?

The Chinese have few systems if any where they didn't rip something off from someone.

As for Z-10 gunship

https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-built-chinese-z10-helicopter-2013-3/?IR=T

After Kamov completed the design, the Russian design bureau verified the design via testing. Kamov then delivered the design to China and the Project 941 concept was accepted by that country's government for further development, [Mikheyev] says. Kamov did not participate in any further developmental work on the WZ-10, [Mikheyev] insists.

Yes, as I stated Russia did the hardest part of the Z-10 which was the design work. Russia probably also designed many other things for China. They then put a garbage underpowered engine in it the Z-10, an engine which is worse then what Soviets designed in the 1960s--literally.

Mighty Russian need to buy Chinese engine for your warship?

The copy has surpassed the original?

http://mil.today/2018/Navy13/


3 ships broke down using Chinese engines they also underpowered as well.


Russia has far better engines but they have too many ship and submarine projects to keep past with demand and they relied on Ukraine for too long for financial reasons.

Far superior and well maintenance engine with upograde EW and AESA radar

Again Chinese engines are garbage. They keep breaking down and have worse performance compared to the originally planned engine.

while Russian Kuznetsov carrier still stuck in Soviet era. Look at the smoke. Worst than WWI coal powered warship steamer in year 2017. No wonder the western are laughing at Russian.

The Kuznetsov was long past due for an overhaul. It is to be completely upgraded.

While Chinese CV-16 Liaoning.

Not a single smoke spotted when steaming her way when on sea.

Yea mighty Soviet era carrier with mighty Chinese engines:

It more of you bragging about how superior Russian is here while try to pull down Chinese with misleading info. and there while in reality, Russian is a badly maul bear that lose its tooth.

What does China produce that is inovative or ground breaking? Nothing. Russia is developing hypersonic global strike vehicle, nuclear power cruise missiles, nuclear powered attack submarines, tanks with unmanned turrets, and many more projects. China just makes cheap F-35 and Sukhoi knockoffs.

The IL-20 is still in WWII era.

Comming from the airforce that uses this:

Russia also uses this for EW:

Not even IFF system in fact and easily get shot down by friendly fire? More like you cant get passed the reality of superior ISrael EW jammed the Syria air defense system and misled them to shoot down IL-20.

You keep spouting nonsense and look like a fool. Israeli EW had nothing to do with the IL-20 getting shot down. It even sounds stupid. It was 100% Syrian incompetence. Superior Israeli jammers did not save its F-16 from being shot down either.

But its convenient how you keep ignoring the downed F-16 and F-4. Bottom line, any aircraft can be shot down if the pilot is not expecting it which was the case with the Israeli F-16, Turkish F-4 and Russian IL-20.

Without Chinese USD 400 billion gas deal, most likely Russia economy will collapse. While China can easily fill up our gas demand from Iran, Iraqi and Saudi who are desperate to sell more oil. We Chinese just do you a favour by buying from you. You Russian need to thank Chinese for saving your butt. Consider it a return of favour for your 50s soviet sino friendship military assist. Sooner or later, gas will be quite irrelevant with more EV put into service as technology gets better. Russia will left with very little valuable to export.

Do everyone a favor and go rant elsewhere.