Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments PART 2

[jhungary]

-reported-

Well, I am just going to say I am not going to reply to you anymore, your post is reported for personal insult, and I will do the same from now on everytime you post this to me.

You don't worth any of my time anymore.

 

[Hack-Hook]

I didn't say they declare independence.

I said they LOST their sovereignty, that's the cause, and the result is they lost the UN Membership.

They WERE independent as per UN before 1970. That's why they have UN membership.

it was not about Taiwan

ROC WAS a member of UN. You still don't get it. You were the representation of some country in UN, then a vote said you weren't then what? If they did not expel you, how do you get replace?? UN won't do what landlord do just clear out your desk and plaquette and put it on the side walk in New York and pretend you never live here.

As I said, ROC/Taiwan LOST their sovereignty, they were rejected from UN. This is not just UN said "Okay, please send someone from Beijing next year"

then you get it wrong. china was member of UN not ROC . they were claiming they are china PRC claimed they are china . UN said PRC is china if ROC want to join UN first must announce its a country separate from CHINA

 

[Hassan Al-Somal]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1580624635041058816

 

[MeFishToo]

all it shown id the railroad bridge only need a paint and some guard changed

Russia must be out of paint then.

Putin is so focused on preserving his reputation and winning the war that he's not interested in peace talks. Putin would commit mass executions he can not afford to loose his own head Ukraine loss

Going nuclear is the end of him. Thats not going to happen. Russia do have an interest it keeping these nuclear speculations going, just to scare the world and maybe make us step down. We should just ignore it, since we cant control it anyway. If he has the capability, and wants to do it, nobody can stop it anyway.

 

[jhungary]

it was not about Taiwan


then you get it wrong. china was member of UN not ROC . they were claiming they are china PRC claimed they are china . UN said PRC is china if ROC want to join UN first must announce its a country separate from CHINA

It's more like you don't understand what I said or the reasoning.

China is China, yes, China is a member, which was represented by ROC before 1971. After 2758, it was represented by PRC.

For you, that change mean ROC delegate move out, PRC delegate move in.

For me, I said it is a LOT more complicated than that, Because the entity might have been gone, you still need to take care of the sovereignty issue. ROC loses the seat NOT because the seat China should be represented by PRC not ROC, ROC loses that seat because UN NO LONGER RECONGNIZE ROC sovereignty over China.

In effect, UN before 1970 recognize China is the extension of Taiwan Island. After 1971 UN recognize Taiwan Island is an extension of Chinese sovereignty. That is why when Taiwan wants to join with the name Taiwan, they can't because they were presented by China. Hence TAIWAN Island lost their sovereignty. That is the reason why ROC is being removed from UN.

 

[Hassan Al-Somal]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1580667283344527360

 

[Hassan Al-Somal]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1580373181130739712

 

[MeFishToo]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1580571768212754432

Second strike at 0.24 is a fail. The drone is hitting a tree not the armored vehiccle.

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1580373181130739712

The drone's shrapnel after the mig shot it down is the cause of the plane's crash.

Unless of course that's what u insinuating.

 

[RoadAmerica]

Looks like American electorate are speaking out against this war waged against Russia by the West.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1580399538979753989

AOC doesn’t speak for anyone, she’s a fraud

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

Ukrainian receives some locally sourced tank.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1580574413220876289

Russia. The only country that somehow capable of bombing itself.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1580518237757792256

 

[Hack-Hook]

Dude, It DOES NOT count.

Let's use another UNGA vote in April, when UN kicked Russia out of Human Right Council

That vote is article 18 (as it involved removing a member's privilege and duty, as stated in point 2, article 18, I have already quoted it before, not going to look it up again)

The result is 93 (F) 24 (A) and 58 Abstain.

Tell me if Abstain count, which mean you will need 140 to pass that resolution, so how the hack they passed the resolution? Because we all know Russia is EXPELLED from the Human Right Council.

mistake of Reuters that came into the wiki
here is article 18

Voting​

Article 18​

1. Each member of the General Assembly shall have one vote.
2. Decisions of the General Assembly on important questions shall be made by a two-thirds majority of the members present and voting. These questions shall include: recommendations with respect to the maintenance of international peace and security, the election of the non-permanent members of the Security Council, the election of the members of the Economic and Social Council, the election of members of the Trusteeship Council in accordance with paragraph 1(c) of Article 86, the admission of new Members to the United Nations, the suspension of the rights and privileges of membership, the expulsion of Members, questions relating to the operation of the trusteeship system, and budgetary questions.
3. Decisions on other questions, including the determination of additional categories of questions to be decided by a two-thirds majority, shall be made by a majority of the members present and voting.

now about what is super majority , well usually you are right and it don't include abstain or abscence but there is a but, if stated otherwise then it can include abstain and here it is stated two-thirds majority of the members present and voting. and i believe abstain is also mean a vote . if you say no abstain is not vote , then explain what is the difference of abstain and absence

Supermajority - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Also, on another note, had article 6 ever applies to Russia being kick out of Human Right Council? I don't remember seeing a UNSC vote to recommend Russia being kick out of Human Right Council?

So no, you are wrong in both counts.

1.) ABSTAIN VOTE DOES NOT COUNT IN GENERAL TOTAL.
2.) ARTICLE 6 DOES NOT APPLIES WHEN YOU TRIGGER ARTICLE 18 CLAUSE 2. WHICH INCLUDED the suspension of the rights and privileges of membership, the expulsion of Member

here what happened
On 29 September 1971, a second draft resolution, A/L.632 and Add.l and 2, sponsored by 22 members including the U.S., was proposed declaring that any proposal to deprive the Republic of China of representation was an important question under Article 18 of the UN Charter, and thus would require a two-thirds supermajority for approval.[4]

On 29 September 1971, a third draft resolution, A/L.632 and Add.l and 2, sponsored by 19 members including the U.S., was proposed by which the Assembly would affirm the right of representation of the People's Republic of China and recommend that it be seated as one of the five permanent members of the Security Council, while also affirming the continuing right of representation of the Republic of China

On 25 October 1971, the voting took place. In the first vote held, the Assembly rejected the U.S. backed proposal that the matter would require a supermajority vote — the 'important question motion'.[4] The Assembly then voted on a separate U.S. proposal that the words "and to expel forthwith the representatives of Chiang Kai-shek from the place which they unlawfully occupied at the United Nations and in all the organizations related to it" be removed from the draft resolution. This motion would have allowed the PRC to join the UN as "China's representative",[clarification needed] while allowing the ROC to remain a regular UN member (if there had been enough votes for it). The motion was rejected by a vote of 61 to 51, with 16 abstentions.

At this point the representative of the Republic of China, Ambassador Liu Chieh, stated "in view of the frenzy and irrational manner that has been exhibited in this hall, the delegation of the Republic of China has now decided not to take part in any further proceedings of this General Assembly."[6] He said the "ideals upon which the UN was founded" had been "betrayed".[7]

The Assembly then adopted draft Albanian proposed resolution A/L. 630 and Add.l and 2, by a roll-call vote of 76 to 35, with 17 abstentions, as Resolution 2758. The Beijing government began representing China at the UN from 15 November 1971 and its delegates were seated at the UN Security Council meeting held on 23 November 1971, the first such meeting where representatives of the Beijing government represented China.[4]

Russia must be out of paint then.

the bridge work thats enough

 

[Hack-Hook]

For me, I said it is a LOT more complicated than that, Because the entity might have been gone, you still need to take care of the sovereignty issue. ROC loses the seat NOT because the seat China should be represented by PRC not ROC, ROC loses that seat because UN NO LONGER RECONGNIZE ROC sovereignty over China.

In effect, UN before 1970 recognize China is the extension of Taiwan Island. After 1971 UN recognize Taiwan Island is an extension of Chinese sovereignty. That is why when Taiwan wants to join with the name Taiwan, they can't because they were presented by China. Hence TAIWAN Island lost their sovereignty. That is the reason why ROC is being removed from UN.

no they didn't lost sovereignity as it don't need a UN sit and as i said , there is a solution , declare independent and join the way is open , well sort of

• The State submits an application to the Secretary-General and a letter formally stating that it accepts the obligations under the Charter.
• The Security Council considers the application. Any recommendation for admission must receive the affirmative votes of 9 of the 15 members of the Council, provided that none of its five permanent members — China, France, the Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America — have voted against the application.
• If the Council recommends admission, the recommendation is presented to the General Assembly for consideration. A two-thirds majority vote is necessary in the Assembly for admission of a new State.
• Membership becomes effective the date the resolution for admission is adopted.

 

[ziaulislam]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1580305049368268802

Recent Russian attacks are only terror bombings and will have no impact on the outcome of this war.

As I predicted Russia will escalate
It has just started

Russia is at level 1 if we call Syria level 10.

The high oil prices mean it can keep doing it buying cheap stuff from Iran china north Korea or anyone who will sell.

Ultimately USA public will get tired
Russia won't

 

[jhungary]

mistake of Reuters that came into the wiki
here is article 18

Voting​

Article 18​

1. Each member of the General Assembly shall have one vote.
2. Decisions of the General Assembly on important questions shall be made by a two-thirds majority of the members present and voting. These questions shall include: recommendations with respect to the maintenance of international peace and security, the election of the non-permanent members of the Security Council, the election of the members of the Economic and Social Council, the election of members of the Trusteeship Council in accordance with paragraph 1(c) of Article 86, the admission of new Members to the United Nations, the suspension of the rights and privileges of membership, the expulsion of Members, questions relating to the operation of the trusteeship system, and budgetary questions.
3. Decisions on other questions, including the determination of additional categories of questions to be decided by a two-thirds majority, shall be made by a majority of the members present and voting.

now about what is super majority , well usually you are right and it don't include abstain or abscence but there is a but, if stated otherwise then it can include abstain and here it is stated two-thirds majority of the members present and voting. and i believe abstain is also mean a vote . if you say no abstain is not vote , then explain what is the difference of abstain and absence

Supermajority - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

What mistake?

You failed to interpret the actual meaning of Article 18.

It's ALWAYS for vs against. It has been since 1945, the abstained DOES NOT COUNT toward the total vote.

again, a very simple question, if it's super-majority and abstain also counted as a vote as you "believed", explain to me how That resolution pass with 94 for and 58 abstain. with supermajority applies.

Abstain means I am there but "I don't want to vote" by the way, but you do not take side of an issue, it's the same as you are NOT there and you CANNOT take side of an issue,

What you believe is wrong. Because things literally not going the way you believe. And that's quite final, don't you think? Because Russia DID get kick out of Human Right Council with 94 to 25 with 58 abstain. I don't know what you believe, but that was the direct result.

here what happened
On 29 September 1971, a second draft resolution, A/L.632 and Add.l and 2, sponsored by 22 members including the U.S., was proposed declaring that any proposal to deprive the Republic of China of representation was an important question under Article 18 of the UN Charter, and thus would require a two-thirds supermajority for approval.[4]

On 29 September 1971, a third draft resolution, A/L.632 and Add.l and 2, sponsored by 19 members including the U.S., was proposed by which the Assembly would affirm the right of representation of the People's Republic of China and recommend that it be seated as one of the five permanent members of the Security Council, while also affirming the continuing right of representation of the Republic of China

On 25 October 1971, the voting took place. In the first vote held, the Assembly rejected the U.S. backed proposal that the matter would require a supermajority vote — the 'important question motion'.[4] The Assembly then voted on a separate U.S. proposal that the words "and to expel forthwith the representatives of Chiang Kai-shek from the place which they unlawfully occupied at the United Nations and in all the organizations related to it" be removed from the draft resolution. This motion would have allowed the PRC to join the UN as "China's representative",[clarification needed] while allowing the ROC to remain a regular UN member (if there had been enough votes for it). The motion was rejected by a vote of 61 to 51, with 16 abstentions.

At this point the representative of the Republic of China, Ambassador Liu Chieh, stated "in view of the frenzy and irrational manner that has been exhibited in this hall, the delegation of the Republic of China has now decided not to take part in any further proceedings of this General Assembly."[6] He said the "ideals upon which the UN was founded" had been "betrayed".[7]

The Assembly then adopted draft Albanian proposed resolution A/L. 630 and Add.l and 2, by a roll-call vote of 76 to 35, with 17 abstentions, as Resolution 2758. The Beijing government began representing China at the UN from 15 November 1971 and its delegates were seated at the UN Security Council meeting held on 23 November 1971, the first such meeting where representatives of the Beijing government represented China.[4]

I know how it went down, I am asking you if Taiwan/ROC sovereignty was not taken away by UN, how they replace ROC with PRC?

I have been asking this for like 5 posts now, I have skirting answer skirting around all the issue.

no they didn't lost sovereignity as it don't need a UN sit and as i said , there is a solution , declare independent and join the way is open , well sort of

• The State submits an application to the Secretary-General and a letter formally stating that it accepts the obligations under the Charter.
• The Security Council considers the application. Any recommendation for admission must receive the affirmative votes of 9 of the 15 members of the Council, provided that none of its five permanent members — China, France, the Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America — have voted against the application.
• If the Council recommends admission, the recommendation is presented to the General Assembly for consideration. A two-thirds majority vote is necessary in the Assembly for admission of a new State.
• Membership becomes effective the date the resolution for admission is adopted.

Dude, YOU ALWAYS NEED SOVEREIGNTY. In fact you keep saying "They need to declare independent" is a direct result of sovereignty, otherwise, what is independent??

And we are not talking about Taiwan rejoining UN, we are talking about Taiwan/ROC got expelled from UN when they have membership before. I mean, what else is the parameter for ROC losing their seat (call it whatever you want) if sovereignty is not count? The entire thing is about sovereignty.......

Again, I cannot dumb it down further for you.