Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments PART 2

[Ich]

I said "Fire and Forget" ATGM are always statics

WOW! That makes no sense to me!

 

[jhungary]

WOW! That makes no sense to me!

Well, as i said some posts before: I would not do it like you wrote it.

Okay, if you think you can haul 29kg of stuff around forget about all the basic equipment you can carry and maneuver with your unit, of course you can think that. I mean, maybe you are Arnold Schwarzenegger? A body builder or weight lifter that can jerk 50kg easy? I don't know.

Me? i am 6'1 190 pound, all of me I can haul around 30kg of gear, that maximum for me, I am no body builder, I am no weightlifter. And for me, all these are man-portable

And these are not.

I mean, if you think you can haul that around, good on ya and go for it.

 

[Ich]

I mean, i you think you can haul that around, good on ya and go for it.

I dont need. If i would be an atgm-man with the (meanwhile standard?) fire and forget man portable 3+ generation atgm, embedded in a group of my flavor, i only would have to do with the atgm. So if needed by the situation, i would put it up, fire, put it down, go next position, within 20-30 seconds - and would not stay around lots minutes cause - as you said - " I said Fire and Forget ATGM are always statics". This is nonsense. You shot, pack up, next position, shot, pack up, next position...and so on. It is fire and forget. It is ok for me if you dont share my world.

 

[jhungary]

I dont need. If i would be an atgm-man with the (meanwhile standard?) fire and forget man portable 3+ generation atgm, embedded in a group of my flavor, i only would have to do with the atgm. So if needed by the situation, i would put it up, fire, put it down, go next position, within 20-30 seconds - and would not stay around lots minutes cause - as you said - " I said Fire and Forget ATGM are always statics". This is nonsense. You shot, pack up, next position, shot, pack up, next position...and so on. It is fire and forget. It is ok for me if you dont share my world.

sure, pack up and move something 29kg in the middle of battle and making leapfrog and fire and maneuver drill when you are about to be flanked by the enemy, picking that up, packing and unpacking it 30 times in a row moving from position to position..

Again, I mean, if you think you can do that, then good on ya, if you say you can do that with ease, I believe you lol

Everything is easy when you only have to say it..........

 

[Ich]

in the middle of battle

Well, where "in the middle of a battle" you think an atgm-man with a fire and forget 3rd+ generation atgm with range of 4+ km has to be? In trench? Or running with "Stormtroopers"? Sorry, this kind of thinking....i cant....

 

[jhungary]

Well, where "in the middle of a battle" you think an atgm-man with a fire and forget 3rd+ generation atgm with range of 4+ km has to be? In trench? Or running with "Stormtroopers"? Sorry, this kind of thinking....i cant....

You do know you use ATGM on a tank/IFV/APC, right?

Do you know how fast tank travel?

Or you are thinking of using them on infantry?? Oh I am sorry, I don't know you are talking about using ATGM on infantry maneuver.

I am already discounting the fact that you think you can hit anything fire and forget 4+ km range. Again, everything is easy when you don't have to actually do it........

 

[Ich]

Do you know how fast tank travel?

It depends.

 

[jhungary]

It depends.

45 mile per hour off road for M1 Abrams, it can go faster if you delink the clutch, not recommended but you can do that. Similar speed on a Bradley

If you are talking about Fast Ground Vehicle like Stryker. It goes up to 60mph off road, or 92 km/h, it will take less < 4 minutes for a M1 Abrams to cover 4 km, or 2.6 minutes for a stryker to cover the same distant.

good luck trying pack, unpack and redeploy your 29km ATGM within 3 minutes. On the other hand, an Abram don't need to cover all 4km to kill you.

 

[gambit]

The major, if not the ultimate, benefit of the anonymity of the internet is to allow those who has no experience to talk as if they do, even when the real world smacks them in the face by way of those who actually lived, sweat, and bled in the real world.

 

[F-22Raptor]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1626217085356605441

 

[zartosht]

Then stop making stupid post and asking stupid questions.

The only stupid fake soldier here is you.. general jhungary

ATGMs are useless because nato wunder tactics and wunder soldiers...

The zionist wunder soldiers found out in 2006 how deadly ATGMS are against their tanks that had been over engineered everything in favor of maximum armor.

Basic 40 year old ATGMs shredded saudi armor

If the US had balls between their legs, they would send their abrams in with volunteer american tank crews.... but i wont hold my breath

 

[F-22Raptor]

Russia lost about half of its tanks since invading Ukraine, a new report says.​

The Russian military has lost at least half of its tanks since it invaded Ukraine, according to a report by a London-based think tank released on Wednesday, a potential constraint as fighting intensifies again and Moscow struggles to expand its offensive operations.

“Russia’s tank and artillery fleets have suffered significant attrition,” said the report released by the International Institute for Strategic Studies, a research organization. The group assessed that about half of Moscow’s prewar fleet of modern tanks, including the T-72B3 and T-72B3M models, is has been lost.

Russia lost about half of its tanks since invading Ukraine, a new report says.

A report by the International Institute for Strategic Studies said Russia’s tank and artillery fleets had suffered “significant attrition” in the war.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Paul2]

There is a reason why no one store more than 20,000 ATGM in their stock, because Armour when used properly, is largely unaffected by ATGM, because before you, as a AT Gunner, can see or hear the tank coming to you, you would have to deal with fast scout and dismounted infantry, so you either have to be constantly on the move or engage your enemies dismounted infantry, which mean you cannot engage the tank when they rolled in, because either you are running, fighting or already dead. That's why no western army in the world depends on man portable ATGM.

The Ukrainian is not just getting the tanks. They also get a bunch of fast scout vehicle (Bradley, Stryker and CM-90) and more importantly about 3 months to train for them, the same time I was trained with when I was in the Army qualifying for my Armour MOS. Which mean they are going to know how to fight with this, and if the Ukrainian still fight like Russian in this war, then yes, these armour deserved to be destroyed, and they deserved to lose, but so far this is not the case.

That sums up Kharkiv offensive very well. While most firepower was delivered by artillery, tanks weren't even second.

Long before tanks ever reached their targets, smaller groups on civilian cars were already penetrating Russian rear, and harassing Russians out before they can organise a defence.

Defences usually don't crumble when their frontlines crumble, but their rear echelons.

 

[jhungary]

The only stupid fake soldier here is you.. general jhungary

ATGMs are useless because nato wunder tactics and wunder soldiers...

The zionist wunder soldiers found out in 2006 how deadly ATGMS are against their tanks that had been over engineered everything in favor of maximum armor.

Basic 40 year old ATGMs shredded saudi armor

If the US had balls between their legs, they would send their abrams in with volunteer american tank crews.... but i wont hold my breath

Comment like this would have proved some weight if you don't just say my theory is Bullshit. Or if you have been in combat and experienced it first hand, maybe, I would have listened to you.

But then, you said it was shit because it was shit. Well, can't argue with that.

And I wouldn't pull Lebanon when Israeli or Yemen war as an example, how many tank both countries have lose versus how many MEN in those AT team loses speak volume.

But hey, as if you know shit about combat. I mean, I ain't the one that look at how Russia execute this war and think "Hey, that's good, I want some of that"

 

[Paul2]

Actually, unless Russia is trying to go bum rush with men and AKs in the next 3 to 4 years, if the financial situation has not changed and/or China not providing them any materiel for war, they can hang on probably until September to December this year, then they would have run out of money, and being defaulted, it means no international bank are going to lend them money, while you can still get manpower for free if you mobilise your population, you can't buy material or operate the government with faith. They are draining about 26 billion every months now with a pre-war piggy bank around 310 billions.

This is probably the last chances Russia can take whatever land they could, because they would have problem restocking their equipment after this big push, this is the Ardennes Offensive for Russia in this war, if they failed to gain more ground and may even be counter attacked, they would have to look for a way out, otherwise it's just basically matching bullet with flesh.

They haven't even stressed their money printing press yet, and we do see they try to preserve their FX stash, and make it last longer. RU economy is fatally wounded, but nowhere quite yet dead.

Are you really that stupid??

Man Portable AT is a static weapon, which mean you would have to stay in one position for an extended period of time to aim and launch said weapon, you cannot haul it over your shoulder and shoot a ATGM or RPG-7 on the run. Well, you can, but that's a guarantee miss.

Which mean if Ukraine move infantry first and SCREEN the flank BEFORE the tank move into an area, those dismounted infantry WILL be able to find you, engage you while you are lying in and wait, which means you would have to either move or engage. You can't fight infantry and tank at the same time, because that's two different weapons. And this is why Russia is shitting on their Armour because they don't ever screen their flank with infantry, letting the Ukrainian AT defence to hold their ground and let them hit their tank undisrupted when they roll in.

But I guess this probably lost on you. Your "Combat" experience is probably only limited on getting a toy gun and go *bang* *bang*

In defence of correctness, the biggest killer of armour in this war is artillery, seconded by field guns, and mines. But yet, tanks have killed much fever other tanks than ATGM fire.


Both sides have intel capacity to at least detect movement of a tank formation long before a tank can fire its gun.

Kharkiv been possible because Russian scouting there been close to zero.