Russia rules out arms sale to Pakistan

[Ticker]

It indeed was a strong statement even for Indian audience, but Pakistan has bought Russian stuff before as well.

Even the recent Russian origin purchases which are being and have been acquired acquired could not have been given without Russian nod.

When the Americans were not directly selling weapons to India due to certain reasons, they allowed the Israelis and certain other countries to do so.

No matter how happy the Indians here may be, this is how things initiate in the early days and then progress further.

But the main stuff here is not acquisition of Russian weaponry, it is more of geo-political breakthrough.

For those who can not fathom the complexities of such interaction, may remain happy.

 

[karan.1970]

Not yet..
In international relations and defence matters "realism" prevails..
currently the most realistic choice is RD-93
which again ..Pakistan isn’t getting directly from Russia..but through the "chum"
Actually Pakistan has been getting Russian goodies via Proxy for many years..

The word proxy comes up quite often while talking about Pakistan

 

[humanfirst]

I dont know what the Pakistani govt/army wants..but here on PDF..Pakistanis were speculating SAMs and ships..

More than SAMS and Ships,a lot were speculating russia losing its alliance to india because of the overwhelming things pakistan can offer-the suppossed geo-strategic importance of pakistani warm waters..

And the Russian reply:

Rogozin was responding to a question on whether Russia was planning to expand military relations with Pakistan.

“That’s our political advantage as a friend of India,” he said. “If someone says otherwise, spit in his face,” he replied when asked whether Russia was planning to sell arms to Pakistan.

 

[illusion8]

It indeed was a strong statement even for Indian audience, but Pakistan has bought Russian stuff before as well.

Even the recent Russian origin purchases which are being and have been acquired acquired could not have been given without Russian nod.

When the Americans were not directly selling weapons to India due to certain reasons, they allowed the Israelis and certain other countries to do so.

No matter how happy the Indians here may be, this is how things initiate in the early days and then progress further.

But the main stuff here is not acquisition of Russian weaponry, it is more of geo-political breakthrough.

For those who can not fathom the complexities of such interaction, may remain happy.

So what was the breakthrough in Geo politics that was achieved?

 

[Ticker]

So what was the breakthrough in Geo politics that was achieved?

Weapon purchases were not discussed during recent interaction.

 

[illusion8]

Weapon purchases were not discussed during recent interaction.

OK then what was? you spoke about Geo political breakthrough, so what was the breakthrough in that?

 

[Ticker]

OK then what was? you spoke about Geo political breakthrough, so what was the breakthrough in that?

A lot more than mere weapon purchases.

 

[illusion8]

A lot more than mere weapon purchases.

you are getting us worried here - we are sweating thinking of what would have transpired between Kayani/Zardari/Hina and whoever they met up in Russia. The brownie point scored has shaken us up.

Request you to break the suspense and divulge the Geo political breakthroughs that happened.

P.S.

 

[Safriz]

Is it now too compulsory for Pakistan that it must buy something from Russia or it's proxies? why?

two reasons

cheap and no strings attached...

The word proxy comes up quite often while talking about Pakistan

Nations have their strategies devised to their benefit..Pakistan is no different..
You will be surprised to know how active Pakistani Embassies are in Ex soviet states....

China we already know for RD-93s and MI-17s. But i have a feeling about Pakistan buying 'used Russian arms' from Ukraine i.e. IL-78 and Al-Khalid Tank engines.... is this yet another route ?

bingo............................

 

[humanfirst]

No matter how happy the Indians here may be, this is how things initiate in the early days and then progress further.

But the main stuff here is not acquisition of Russian weaponry, it is more of geo-political breakthrough.

For those who can not fathom the complexities of such interaction, may remain happy.

Strategic importance,Diplomatic leverage,Economic importance..It all comes down to the influence each nation can exert on other's policies..Indian influence can make russians say

“That’s our political advantage as a friend of India,” he said. “If someone says otherwise, spit in his face,”

While pakistan cannot stop India getting some of the best weapons in the world including p8I posidion,Apache attack helis,Javelins etc From their ally,who supposedly need pakistan so badly in WOT..Hell India is even offered partnership in F-35
by americans while already partnered in PAK-FA with russia..
Interested in joint strike fighters, US asks India - Economic Times

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

I dont know what the Pakistani govt/army wants..but here on PDF..Pakistanis were speculating SAMs and ships..

Their speculations went as far as a Russia-China-Pak alliance against the West and India .

And all they got is "Spit in his face" , in the words of the Russian Deputy Prime Minister .

 

[illusion8]

Their speculations went as far as a Russia-China-Pak alliance against the West and India .

And all they got is "Spit in his face" , in the words of the Russian Deputy Prime Minister .

Against the west can be understood to some extent - But Russia and to an extent China against India for Pakistan's sake?? that's some serious lapse of understanding.

 

[isro2222]

@shahadat you are right.... However just recently russian minister commented on MMRCA deal saying exactly what uk minister had said.... He said india not signed deal and might cancel it and we hope india might consider our jet fighter.... Its true india told russia a jetfighter that is not operational we cant pick up in our MMRCA but india told it late.... Its also true that Russia and india had many deals together worth multi billion dollars.... But when america and india came close, russia decided to sell JF-17 engines to pakistan through china.... Thats not for money.... It was russian way telling india we are upset on u.... Russia loves india and india loves russia but they are worried america getting alot cozy with india so they giving india hint that we are angry on u.... You can again read the thread post no.1.... In that they delibrately brought pakistans card out by the help of media.... My belief is that india should not let russia stop giving pakistan and china weapons.... If they give than its russia who has to be worried.... Pak will share the knowledge of it with america and china will copy it and earn money out of it and may be in future use it against russia as they did that before.... india should not poke its nose in every matter russia has.... yes same time we might be worried that this weapons might fall in wrong hands from pakistan but pak has nuclear weapon.... What other weapon can be more deadly than nuclear bomb? What deadly weapon russia can give to pak?.... Pakistan already had nukes in large number.... So india should not think about others and object the deals or construction they doing in their own country like china doing.... India should focus building our own capablity.... Russia and india will be friends forever no matter what happens.... Btw peace is must.... Ashtar galactic command had said that weapons are evil.... i agree.... However if iraq and other countries had nuclear weapons like pak has than america never had attact it.... They didnt and thats the reason america chewed iraq and want iran and syria now.... So weapons do protect and maintain peace and makes enemy think many time about attacking.... If there will be no weapons than people will start war without fearing about nuclear bombs....

 

[Desert Fox]

Well, lets see, Pakistan already produces its own Tanks, APC's, produces its own state of the art Panter Howitzer under ToT, we already co-produce our own fighter jets, we acquired transport aircraft and helicopters from Ukraine, we already produce manpad SAM's, we produce our own ballistic missiles/cruise missiles and pretty much the rest the Chinese and a few other sources fill in the void of our weapons acquisitions.

So what does Russia really have to offer Pakistan (besides the RD-93 engines which they supplied us and continue to do so despite indian pressure) that Pakistan can't get from anywhere else?

As one member mentioned in this thread, Russian investment is more important, not weapons, we already have enough of the latter.

 

[KingMamba]

Well, lets see, Pakistan already produces its own Tanks, APC's, produces its own state of the art Panter Howitzer under ToT, we already co-produce our own fighter jets, we acquired transport aircraft and helicopters from Ukraine, we already produce manpad SAM's, we produce our own ballistic missiles/cruise missiles and pretty much the rest the Chinese and a few other sources fill in the void of our weapons acquisitions.

So what does Russia really have to offer Pakistan (besides the RD-93 engines which they supplied us and continue to do so despite indian pressure) that Pakistan can't get from anywhere else?

As one member mentioned in this thread, Russian investment is more important, not weapons, we already have enough of the latter.

The Indian overreaction to this news is understandable considering the Pakistani overreaction to expanding Pak-Russia ties. Those who knew better didn't make much of it to begin with.