Russia refuses to sell Nimitz Aircraft Carrier and space shuttle to China

[manqiangrexue]

Gubbi! Are you kidding? By working hard, I meant to think! You thought working hard means shovelling coal into an oven? How can you criticize Chienese thinking capability when India makes a Tejas with no engine and China makes a J-20 with a WS-10 variant engines? You think making that thing didn't take thought? You think reverse-engineering a flanker takes no thought? Even building a Tejas with no engines takes significant thought. Of course I take criticism! I take helpful criticism from my superiors and peers. I don't take criticism from people in high school or drunks with no scientific knowledge. And that is an accurate comparison now! China is a PhD and India is in high school (J-20 vs Tejas) and India has NO position to criticize China. No Gubbi, I do not think it was intelligent for someone to post a picture of a J-10 throwing bombs and saying that they would fall on India. War-mongering is not cool either.

And an honest effort, to the person whose name is a future date, is worth NOTHING when 11 American aircraft carriers bear down on you to try and take your provinces away, but working weapons systems are worth everything. Your comment, "...nevermind the result..." says it all about India. I agree with your comment, that China copied and learned in the initial stages of development to make indigenous J-20 possible. Yes, Russia is China's teacher so I respect Russians very much.

 

[gubbi]

Gubbi! Are you kidding? By working hard, I meant to think!

Me thinks you are mistaking working hard with thinking - a trait severely wanting in your comrades! Also the fact that you and your comrades cannot take criticism shows that they cannot think. Period. No matter which quarters a criticism comes form, you need to have clear thinking capabilities to respond to those criticisms. Period.

You thought working hard means shovelling coal into an oven?

Yes. Considering how experiments are repeated over and over again without even tweaking any of the variables, by your comrades to get that one good result, I would guess thats whats taught to you guys!
Something on the lines of "doing one thing a thousand times than doing many things a few times".... rings a bell?

How can you criticize Chienese thinking capability when India makes a Tejas with no engine and China makes a J-20 with a WS-10 variant engines? You think making that thing didn't take thought? You think reverse-engineering a flanker takes no thought? Even building a Tejas with no engines takes significant thought.

Again, for a PhD, your comment is so naive! If you had read ANY thing about the development of Tejas, you would have understood the roadblocks in its development and the technological barriers we had to surpass to develop that little monster. But hey, how would you understand, no? Ctrl c + Ctrl v - and lo, behold we've got ourselves a J-10, a J-11, a J-15!!!

Of course I take criticism! I take helpful criticism from my superiors and peers. I don't take criticism from people in high school or drunks with no scientific knowledge. And that is an accurate comparison now! China is a PhD and India is in high school (J-20 vs Tejas) and India has NO position to criticize China.

Lol. And you derive this assumption, how? And why India has no right to criticize China. Then China has no right to criticize USA who are clearly leagues ahead and then some more of whatever China can do! Your childish rant shows your level of thinking. IMHO, go back to keeping silent and doing some 'hard work'.

 

[manqiangrexue]

Ctrl C + Ctrl V and we have a flanker? Or more ridiculously, a J-10? OK, and you call me naive. You must think that all the countries in this world can copy flankers and fulcrums, but China is the only one who is unscrupulous enough to do it. Road blocks to making the Tejas? Don't even mention that! How about road blocks to making the J-20? Why would you assume that there are more roadblocks to the Tejas than the J-10 or J-20? Yes, China cannot criticize American technology. I believe that is true and I have never done that. You are ridiculous! Perform an experiment without changing variables for 1000 times? How would any Chinese systems work if we did that? Why do you say these things? I don't know how to respond because they are so wrong and so ridiculous. I can only tell you that that is not true; we change the variable each time until it works and then we repeat it 3 times to confirm. Has ANYONE succeeded in designing ANYTHING by doing what you just said? How would you argue against me if I said 1+1=11? Your comment is literally that stupid.

 

[artaxerces]

"Be silent and work"
Well, Good for you.

---

Still doesn't change the fact that your country couldn't even produce a good solid jet without copying [not talking about J-20] without copying and still dare to mock others about it who are atleast making an honest effort, never mind the result, towards it.
By the time J-20 had come, China had learnt enough about making jets, so that it could make it's own. But it would have been impossible for them had they not copied and thereby learnt in the initial stages of developement.

I'm not denying the fact that China has copied a lot of Russian technology. But do remember that many Chinese people(myself included) are in fact grateful to the Russians for giving us so much technological know-how during the days of the Sino-Soviet alliance. You guys helped us when everybody else was trying to destroy China and that has not been forgotten.

China needs to have an independent defense industrial base, and unfortunately copying/stealing/reverse engineering are necessary evils needed to achieve this most important of goals. Everybody does it, but it is not something that we should be bragging about.

 

[21 Dec 2012]

I'm not denying the fact that China has copied a lot of Russian technology. But do remember that many Chinese people(myself included) are in fact grateful to the Russians for giving us so much technological know-how during the days of the Sino-Soviet alliance. You guys helped us when everybody else was trying to destroy China and that has not been forgotten.

China needs to have an independent defense industrial base, and unfortunately copying/stealing/reverse engineering are necessary evils needed to achieve this most important of goals. Everybody does it, but it is not something that we should be bragging about.

I'm glad that you feel that way, and honestly I would never make much of an issue out of all this copy-paste business. It's just that our engineers have worked so hard on making those techs through bad times and all of a sudden we see our work being ripped off in a flash, and then you guys go on taunting us and others, which just makes me very angry.

 

[Hafizzz]

Yeah, sure! Those who actually THINK are dumb, no?

An example is India.

 

[j20blackdragon]

Soon India.

 

[21 Dec 2012]

Soon India.

You're want to sell that to the Indians? I doubt if your CCP will ever agree.

 

[timetravel]

I'm not denying the fact that China has copied a lot of Russian technology. But do remember that many Chinese people(myself included) are in fact grateful to the Russians for giving us so much technological know-how during the days of the Sino-Soviet alliance. You guys helped us when everybody else was trying to destroy China and that has not been forgotten.

China needs to have an independent defense industrial base, and unfortunately copying/stealing/reverse engineering are necessary evils needed to achieve this most important of goals. Everybody does it, but it is not something that we should be bragging about.

but this is what exactly chinese here do... claiming J-10s, J-11s as superior to Russian planes.... at least accept those are far below Russian original quality...

and similarly J-20 is going to be at the bottom of all 5th gen planes... infact it wont be even 5th gen, 4.2 or 4.3 kind of performance in reality is what it will have at MAX....(not even 4.5 that is like Rafale/MKI and it will be far below rafale/MKI capability)

J-20 is a chinese ccp/media promoted fake plane to showcase he world that we also have 5th gen when others are having it.. but chinese have no capability to build one....and to please its people..

 

[antonius123]

but this is what exactly chinese here do... claiming J-10s, J-11s as superior to Russian planes.... at least accept those are far below Russian original quality...

and similarly J-20 is going to be at the bottom of all 5th gen planes... infact it wont be even 5th gen, 4.2 or 4.3 kind of performance in reality is what it will have at MAX....(not even 4.5 that is like Rafale/MKI and it will be far below rafale/MKI capability)

J-20 is a chinese ccp/media promoted fake plane to showcase he world that we also have 5th gen when others are having it.. but chinese have no capability to build one....and to please its people..

Again, another baseless claim and tend to be delusional.

We dont know anything about J-20 performance, except its shape provide much better degree of stealth than your PAKFA.

 

[j20blackdragon]

Russia will soon be "ripe for the picking" in 50 to 100 years.

I'm literally salivating thinking about all that Russian land and natural resources.

Cheated of Childhood - Russia - YouTube

 

[artaxerces]

I'm in agreement that bragging about this is counterproductive, this is not something to be proud of. But once again, copying tech and reverse engineering is a necessary evil. The Soviets copied the B-29 and renamed it as the Tu-4. Then they moved on to design better bombers. China is just doing the same thing.

 

[21 Dec 2012]

Russia will soon be "ripe for the picking" in 50 to 100 years.

I'm literally salivating thinking about all that Russian land and natural resources.

Cheated of Childhood - Russia - YouTube

Why not now? Or did CCP have your ball$ cut of during your childhood.

 

[manqiangrexue]

Yeah, the J-20 is a fake plane (what does that mean?) that the Chinese have no capability to build... that's why it's flying every week. Seriously, what are you talking about? How do you assume that the J-20 will be so terrible? Lay your evidence out and let's see. You can't say, "China has never built anything like it before, so this one can't be that good." I seriously hope that is not your arguement, because that is saying that it is impossible to make large improvements. By that logic, Britain could never have defeated the Spanish Armada in history because Britain had less experience sailing and making ships than Spain. So lay out whatever evidence you have and let's see why you think the J-20 is terrible. You better be VERY well-informed about Chinese CLASSIFIED infromation such avionics, radar, and engine progress for your evidence to mean anything, by the way. And 4.2-4.3 generation? What the heck is that? Are there any planes classified generation 4.568 according to your nomenclature? J-10 has an aerodynamically more agile airframe than Flankers; it's avionics, I dunno. Nobody knows unless you can access classified Chinese documents. J-11 has upgrades from the Su-27SK but I don't know how its avionics will stack against those of the Su-35. Probably a little worse, but not much judging on the amount of espionage that China has been doing. In any case, they can't be significantly worse than Russian jets because if they were, China would buy more jets from Russia. China's military budget is far sufficient to buy 400 Su-35 from Russia (400 per year if needed at $32 billion, which China can easily swing from its $106 billion budget) if it felt that its own aircraft were not capable. That is as honest as I can get. And Timetravel, if you really think that a J-20 that flies on indigenous engines is an aircraft that China made to please the crowds, then that is just terrible, terrible denial. You will never win any conflict if you purposefully underestimate your opponent like that to make yourself feel safer.

 

[timetravel]

Again, another baseless claim and tend to be delusional.

We dont know anything about J-20 performance, except its shape provide much better degree of stealth than your PAKFA.

claim who? you. :LOL:

Yeah, the J-20 is a fake plane (what does that mean?) that the Chinese have no capability to build... that's why it's flying every week. Seriously, what are you talking about? How do you assume that the J-20 will be so terrible? Lay your evidence out and let's see. You can't say, "China has never built anything like it before, so this one can't be that good." I seriously hope that is not your arguement, because that is saying that it is impossible to make large improvements. By that logic, Britain could never have defeated the Spanish Armada in history because Britain had less experience sailing and making ships than Spain. So lay out whatever evidence you have and let's see why you think the J-20 is terrible. You better be VERY well-informed about Chinese CLASSIFIED infromation such avionics, radar, and engine progress for your evidence to mean anything, by the way. And 4.2-4.3 generation? What the heck is that? Are there any planes classified generation 4.568 according to your nomenclature? J-10 has an aerodynamically more agile airframe than Flankers; it's avionics, I dunno. Nobody knows unless you can access classified Chinese documents. J-11 has upgrades from the Su-27SK but I don't know how its avionics will stack against those of the Su-35. Probably a little worse, but not much judging on the amount of espionage that China has been doing. In any case, they can't be significantly worse than Russian jets because if they were, China would buy more jets from Russia. China's military budget is far sufficient to buy 400 Su-35 from Russia (400 per year if needed) if it felt that its own aircraft were not capable. That is as honest as I can get. And Timetravel, if you really think that a J-20 that flies on indigenous engines is an aircraft that China made to please the crowds, then that is just terrible, terrible denial. You will never win any conflict if you purposefully underestimate your opponent like that to make yourself feel safer.

CLASSIFIED.. if that word was not there in dictionary.. chinese would probably never claim anything they claim everytime.. as reality is much different...

chinese only claim to any tech.. SECRECY so we are best. coz we cant display or let a single product made by us compete in Market.

come n claim the day any of ur Fighters take part in international competitions and win laurels like MKI. or gets selected by a major air force after competition against US,EU,Russia...... or u even participate in such a competition... u cant do these coz ur fighters are below US,EU,Russia n others...

chine needs at least another 15 years to make anything similar to MKI. rest all lies.