RAFALE deal to be signed in TEN DAYS

[Thorough Pro]

@ mods can we ban creation of more "Rafael" threads.

 

[Donatello]

Taking just 36 makes no sense both from an economy of scale, logistics PoV and from the fact that the IAF fleet is ageing rapidly and if those required squadron strengths have to be maintained; more aircraft are needed.
The actual misfortune to befall the IAF and HAL both is the mismanagement of the Tejas program. Had it run as it should have, the MMRCA could have been curtailed and the IAF still could have bolstered its numbers by inducting more Tejas.

The initial 36 however look like a quick deal to avoid an overzealous CAG and get things started for the IAF while the local production deal is sorted out. That off course all actually depends on how far the rather money minded nations of India and France are willing to go in their effort to grab every last penny.

I am always bemused when someone mentions the IAF and its falling squadron numbers
Out of no where, they have a 'sanctioned' requirement of 40+ squadrons because they want to deal with China and Pakistan simultaneously.
If that is not funny enough, they barely manage 32 squadrons today, out of which 11 squadrons worth of MIG 27 and MIG21 are to be retired. With no MMRCA signed, Tejas going into 2020s and Sukhoi numbers not being increased, how the heck do they think they can even have 32 squadrons operational by 2025-2030 let alone 42?

 

[rockstarIN]

The IAF will not be getting the PAK-FA, they want the FGFA- nothing less. And how could the PAK-FA cost less than the Rafale? This is pure speculation and nonsensical to say the least. As soon as India signs for 36 Rafales it is effectively signing for at least 126- if not 189. 36 Rafales only would lead to a massive waste of resources and would never be permitted by the IAF.

You never know the cost of PAK-FA and we yet to get the same in our hands. I think it is like you compare F-35 to F-15 silent eagle. why not put the monies in to a 5th jet air frame? Once we get the same in 2016-17(one prototype), we can study it and if suitable, can limit Rafale and go for a new 5th gen plat form if cost is viable.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Taking just 36 makes no sense both from an economy of scale, logistics PoV

Exactly which is why this 36 is what Modi said in Paris- a quick fix meant to meet the immediate needs of the IAF whilst the deal for the remaining 90+ Rafales to be produced in India is worked out.

The actual misfortune to befall the IAF and HAL both is the mismanagement of the Tejas program. Had it run as it should have, the MMRCA could have been curtailed and the IAF still could have bolstered its numbers by inducting more Tejas.

LCA or not the MMRCA would always have been required- a MKI and LCA only IAF would be rather imbalanced, the IAF needs a heavier strike fighter, the MKI is their air dominance fighter, the LCA is their point defence interceptor. The Rafale perfectly fits into their requirements,long range strike missions are that plane's bread and butter.

I am always bemused when someone mentions the IAF and its falling squadron numbers
Out of no where, they have a 'sanctioned' requirement of 40+ squadrons because they want to deal with China and Pakistan simultaneously.
If that is not funny enough, they barely manage 32 squadrons today, out of which 11 squadrons worth of MIG 27 and MIG21 are to be retired. With no MMRCA signed, Tejas going into 2020s and Sukhoi numbers not being increased, how the heck do they think they can even have 32 squadrons operational by 2025-2030 let alone 42?

272 (240 delivered) MKIs on order with a further 40 unit order being processed by the MoD, LCAs being produced as we speak, a rate of16/year from 2017 to be achieved and Rafales from 2017- the situation is not as bleak as you make out. The IAF of 2020 will be FAR more capable than the IAF of today even IF it is quantitatively (slightly) less. The IAF's sanctioned strength of 42 will be met by 2027 however by then the sanctioned strength will likely be raised to 50 SQNs as the IAF is pushing for right now.

You never know the cost of PAK-FA and we yet to get the same in our hands

The IAF has ZERO interest in the PAK-FA, they are ONLY interested in the FGFA and will not get anything but.

I think it is like you compare F-35 to F-15 silent eagle. why not put the monies in to a 5th jet air frame? Once we get the same in 2016-17(one prototype), we can study it and if suitable, can limit Rafale and go for a new 5th gen plat form if cost is viable.

1)The FGFA is not coming in to service until 2021/2- the Rafale will eb in service by 2017 with the IAF.
2) Even IF the unit costs of the Rafalr and FGFA are not too dissimilar the life cycle costs will be dramatically different because the FGFA is a Russian a/c and because it is a 5th gen fighter. The F-22 requires far, far more maintenance per flight hour than any USAF 4th gen fighter.
3) The FGFA is not a substitute for the Rafale and vice versa

 

[Storm Force]

Dontello re : Your question

how the heck do they think they can even have 32 squadrons operational by 2025-2030 let alone 42

IAF Today

10 Sqds or 200 SU30MKI
6 Sqds 110 Mig29 & Mirage2000
5 Sqds 90 Jaguars

11 Sqds 220 Mig27 &Mig 21 BISON ALL gone by 2019

IAF in 2019

272 Su30mki 15 Sqds
110 Mirage2000/5 Mig29smt 6 Sqds
90 Jaguar 5 Sqds

36 Rafale 2 Sqds
40 Tejas Mk1 2 Sqds = 30 Sqds in Total by 2019/2020


AFTER 2020 I see More Tejas Or More Rafale

AFTER 2022 I see FGFA

 

[[Bregs]]

Dontello re : Your question



IAF Today

10 Sqds or 200 SU30MKI
6 Sqds 110 Mig29 & Mirage2000
5 Sqds 90 Jaguars

11 Sqds 220 Mig27 &Mig 21 BISON ALL gone by 2019

IAF in 2019

272 Su30mki 15 Sqds
110 Mirage2000/5 Mig29smt 6 Sqds
90 Jaguar 5 Sqds

36 Rafale 2 Sqds
40 Tejas Mk1 2 Sqds = 30 Sqds in Total by 2019/2020


AFTER 2020 I see More Tejas Or More Rafale

AFTER 2022 I see FGFA

At least 6-8 more sq of su30 mki will be added too in next 2-3 yrs

 

[mad_max]

At least 6-8 more sq of su30 mki will be added too in next 2-3 yrs

are u aware of production rate of Su 30 mki by HAL ?

 

[sathya]

Count up : Day 4

 

[sathya]

Count up : Day 5.

Damn so silent now.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

Count up : Day 5.

Damn so silent now.

The French Defence Minister is landing in INDIA soon
He is going to Malaysia for Mistral Sale ; then he will stop in DELHI
for RAFALE deal

Rafale, Mistral : Jean-Yves Le Drian en Malaisie et en Inde

France to discuss Mistral sale to Malaysia - source - Channel NewsAsia

 

[Stephen Cohen]

Breakthrough likely in Rafale talks as France softens stand

 

[[Bregs]]

This deal was going to be clinched with interventions from top leadership

 

[SR-91]

I am always bemused when someone mentions the IAF and its falling squadron numbers
Out of no where, they have a 'sanctioned' requirement of 40+ squadrons because they want to deal with China and Pakistan simultaneously.
If that is not funny enough, they barely manage 32 squadrons today, out of which 11 squadrons worth of MIG 27 and MIG21 are to be retired. With no MMRCA signed, Tejas going into 2020s and Sukhoi numbers not being increased, how the heck do they think they can even have 32 squadrons operational by 2025-2030 let alone 42?

APPROX 18 aircrafts in a squadron. Listing only aircrafts that will serve beyond 2020's.. If u notice i did not list MIG-21 and MIG-27 due to their retirement date closing in.


SU-30MKI ....................12/13 Squads Approx 225...........will be upgraded to Super MKI.......till late 2030's to 2040's
MIG-29...........................3 Squads 69 jets ................being upgraded to UPG..................till 2030's to 2040's
MIRAGE 2000................3 Squads 50 jets ............being upgraded to 2000-5..................till late 2030's
MIG-21 Bison.................8 Squads 150 jets......................................................................till 2022
JAGUAR........................8 Squads 145 jets............being upgraded to Darin iii................till 2030's

TOTAL............................34 Squads 639 jets

AFTER 2018

Rest of SU-30mki approx 4 squads approx 50 jets
LCA TEJAS 2015/2016............6 aircrafts
2016/2017............8 aircrafts
2017/2018..........16 aircrafts
So expecting ...... .........2 Squads by 2018 and 1 squadron each year after that.
Rafale deal will be signed by this year and deliveries will be in 36 months
so expecting .................2 Squads by 2018/2019

These numbers are based on facts, There you go 42 Squadrons or around 755 jets by 2018/2019 worst case scenario 2019/2020.

@Abingdonboy @SpArK @MilSpec @Koovie @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @sancho @Capt.Popeye @levina @ayesha.a @Dillinger @Gabriel92 @AUSTERLITZ @nair @Oscar @waz @kurup @OrionHunter @JanjaWeed @Guynextdoor2 @Major Shaitan Singh @Chanakya's_Chant @ni8mare @Water Car Engineer @jiki @special @Unknowncommando @SrNair @Kinetic @500 @Penguin @gslv mk3 @Stephen Cohen @[Bregs] @Manindra @Storm Force

Guys help me make these number more accurate.
Thx

 

[ArsalanKhan21]

"RAFALE deal to be signed in TEN DAY"

I will believe only when it is signed !!

 

[Storm Force]

its happening now modi is directly involved