Racial Origin of the Muslim Population and their Social Stratification under Bengal Sultanate

[Indus Pakistan]

@Kinetic Notwithstanding tall, claim's but I suspect the Arabic contribution into the South Asia is probably THE least. I think only the Sindhi on the Arab coast or the Makrani of Baloch coast have large Arab infusion. Rest of South Asia it is like a milk drop in the ocean.

 

[pagla baba]

You are right, they are called adivasi... native old people of eastern India ... those people in East converted to Islam in BD but now these guys got a headache to become Arbic and Turkish!!! @bongbang

not indian native .it is chinies native.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

The largest populations having significant outside genes are Pashtun and Baloch of Pakistan who are NOT a tiny 'test tube sample' but number nearly 40 million in Pakistan.

 

[Kinetic]

@Kinetic Notwithstanding tall, claim's but I suspect the Arabic contribution into the South Asia is probably THE least. I think only the Sindhi on the Arab coast or the Makrani of Baloch coast have large Arab infusion. Rest of South Asia it is like a milk drop in the ocean.

Yes, 100% true. Genetic is proof. We have some commonality with Eastern and northern Europeans but rests are native to India.

 

[A1Kaid]

Do Muslims have a higher birth rate than Hindus in India?

 

[Kinetic]

not indian native .it is chinies native.

Actually its mix in the eastern side of India.. Bengal... Jharkhand... Assam... Odisha.. for thousand of years they have mixed. But some West bengal people are different though.

Do Muslims have a higher birth rate than Hindus in India?

Yes, much higher.

Look at the R1a (R-M420) frequency by population, mostly found in Europe and all over India (Hindus only, highest in West Bengal Brahmins anbd other North Indian Brahmins and Pakistanis, outside only found in Eastern and northern Europe) (sort by %). And rest of the chromosomes are native to India. End of debate and thread.



List of R-M420 frequency by population - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




Continental Country Population Sample R1a1 = SRY1532.2 positive, M17/M198 not tested (%) R1a1* = SRY1532.2 positive, M17/M198 negative (%) R1a1a = SRY1532.2 positive, M17/M198 positive (%) Source
South Asia India West Bengal (Brahmins) 30 NA 0.00 72.22 Sharma et al. (2009)
South Asia Pakistan Mohanna 70 NA 0.00 71.00 Underhill et al. (2009)
South Asia Nepal/India Hindus (proxy for Indian ancestry) Chitwan, Nepal 26 NA 0.00 69.2 Fornarino et al. (2009)
Central Asia Tajikistan Ishkashimi (near Afghanistan) 25 NA NA 68.0 Wells et al. (2001)
South Asia India Uttar Pradesh (Brahmins) 31 NA 0.00 67.74 Sharma et al. (2009)
South Asia India Khatri-Punjab/Haryana 15 NA 0.00 67.00 Underhill et al. (2009)
Central Asia Tajikistan Tajiks/Panjikent 22 NA NA 64.0 Wells et al. (2001)
Europe Germany Sorbs 112 NA 0.00 63.4 Behar et al. (2003)
South Asia India Ahir-Punjab/Haryana 24 NA 0.00 63.00 Underhill et al. (2009)
Central Asia Kyrgyzstan Kyrgyz 52 NA NA 63.0 Wells et al. (2001)
South Asia Pakistan Pakistan Hazara 23 NA NA 60.9 Qamar et al. (2002)
South Asia India Bihar (Brahmins) 38 NA 0.00 60.53 Sharma et al. (2009)
South Asia India Lohana Gujarat 20 NA 0.00 60.00 Underhill et al. (2009)
Europe Hungary Hungarian 45 NA NA 60.0 Semino et al. (2000)
Central Asia Afghanistan Nuristanis 5 NA NA 60.0 Haber et al. (2012)
Europe Belarus Brest 97 NA 0.00 58.8 Underhill et al. (2014)
North Asia Russia (Altai Republic) Southern Altaians (Beshpel'tir) 43 NA NA 58.1 Kharkov et al. (2007)
Europe Russia Tver region Russian 38 NA 0.00 57.9 Mirabal et al. (2009)
Europe Poland 913 NA NA 57.0 Kayser et al. (2005)
Europe Hungary 53 NA 0.00 56.6 Battaglia et al. (2008)
Europe Poland 99 NA 0.00 56.6 Battaglia et al. (2008)
Europe Poland Polish 55 NA NA 56.4 Semino et al. (2000)
Europe Belarus 267 NA 0.00 54.7 Underhill et al. (2014)
Europe Ukraine Ukrainian 50 NA NA 54.0 Semino et al. (2000)
Europe Russia Kursk region Russian 40 NA 0.00 52.5 Mirabal et al. (2009)
North Asia Russia (Altai Republic) Southern Altaians (Kulada) 46 NA NA 52.2 Kharkov et al. (2007)
Europe - Ashkenazi Levite 60 NA 0.00 51.7 Behar et al. (2003)
Central Asia Afghanistan Pashtuns 49 NA NA 51.02 Haber et al. (2012)
Europe Belorussia 306 NA 0.33 51.0 Behar et al. (2003)
South Asia India Indo-European Middle Caste 48 NA NA 50.4 Sengupta et al. (2005)
Europe Ukraine 92 NA 0.00 50.0 Battaglia et al. (2008)
North Asia Russia (Altai Republic) Northern Altaians (Gorno-Altaisk) 20 NA NA 50.0 Kharkov et al. (2007)

@Atanz

where is @bongbang and other turkish/arabic guys?

 

[DARIUS]

What most people do not understand is that Bengal before the Hindu reign of the Senas did not even have Brahmins and kayasths (Kshatriyas).It was only after the Chandravanshi Sen rulers came to power and Ballal Sen ascended the throne that a decision was made to invite Brahmins from Kanyakubj (Kannauj) belonging to 5 gotras (Shandilya.Kashyap,Bharadwaj,Savarna and Vatsya) and Kshatryas of 5 gotras (I can't recall the Gotras right now)most probably the Dutts,Basus,Ghoshes (Yadava),Guhas and Mitras to establish proper varna system.Now these Brahmins and Kayasthas whom I have referred to in turn had migrated to Kannauj from the NWFPs even earlier.Another thing which is not widely known is that there were several waves of immigration into Bengal from the North.For example the Bardhaman Royal family is from Punjab and had Kapoor surname The Punjabi Maharaja’s Of Bengal…The Royal Kapoor Dynasty… | Sulekha Creative,similarly several families of business people came to Bengal and had settled down here like the Seths of Murshidabad who again are of Punjabi ancestry. In the case of the Brahmin community I would like to state that Ballal Sen was the progenitor of the Kulin pratha which allowed Brahmins to take more than one wife and he also conferred honorary surnames like Bhattacharya on many Vaidik Brahmins whose original surname may have been Agnihotri or Jha or Mishra. As a matter of fact even today there are many Agnihotris and Mishras in Bengal and even Pathaks!! As far as the Muslim population of of West Bengal is concerned I am not sure of their Arab or Turk ancestry but most of them for sure belonged to the lower castes and had converted to Islam.

 

[A1Kaid]

@Kinetic

If Muslims have higher birth rates than Hindus then that will change the political map of India. Pro-Muslim parties will win more elections than Hindu centric parties. It may take decades but you will see provinces that were Hindu majority begin to become Muslim majority or at least majority-minority.

 

[bongbang]

Look at the R1a (R-M420) frequency by population, mostly found in Europe and all over India (Hindus only, highest in West Bengal Brahmins anbd other North Indian Brahmins and Pakistanis, outside only found in Eastern and northern Europe) (sort by %). And rest of the chromosomes are native to India. End of debate and thread.



List of R-M420 frequency by population - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




Continental Country Population Sample R1a1 = SRY1532.2 positive, M17/M198 not tested (%) R1a1* = SRY1532.2 positive, M17/M198 negative (%) R1a1a = SRY1532.2 positive, M17/M198 positive (%) Source
South Asia India West Bengal (Brahmins) 30 NA 0.00 72.22 Sharma et al. (2009)
South Asia Pakistan Mohanna 70 NA 0.00 71.00 Underhill et al. (2009)
South Asia Nepal/India Hindus (proxy for Indian ancestry) Chitwan, Nepal 26 NA 0.00 69.2 Fornarino et al. (2009)
Central Asia Tajikistan Ishkashimi (near Afghanistan) 25 NA NA 68.0 Wells et al. (2001)
South Asia India Uttar Pradesh (Brahmins) 31 NA 0.00 67.74 Sharma et al. (2009)
South Asia India Khatri-Punjab/Haryana 15 NA 0.00 67.00 Underhill et al. (2009)
Central Asia Tajikistan Tajiks/Panjikent 22 NA NA 64.0 Wells et al. (2001)
Europe Germany Sorbs 112 NA 0.00 63.4 Behar et al. (2003)
South Asia India Ahir-Punjab/Haryana 24 NA 0.00 63.00 Underhill et al. (2009)
Central Asia Kyrgyzstan Kyrgyz 52 NA NA 63.0 Wells et al. (2001)
South Asia Pakistan Pakistan Hazara 23 NA NA 60.9 Qamar et al. (2002)
South Asia India Bihar (Brahmins) 38 NA 0.00 60.53 Sharma et al. (2009)
South Asia India Lohana Gujarat 20 NA 0.00 60.00 Underhill et al. (2009)
Europe Hungary Hungarian 45 NA NA 60.0 Semino et al. (2000)
Central Asia Afghanistan Nuristanis 5 NA NA 60.0 Haber et al. (2012)
Europe Belarus Brest 97 NA 0.00 58.8 Underhill et al. (2014)
North Asia Russia (Altai Republic) Southern Altaians (Beshpel'tir) 43 NA NA 58.1 Kharkov et al. (2007)
Europe Russia Tver region Russian 38 NA 0.00 57.9 Mirabal et al. (2009)
Europe Poland 913 NA NA 57.0 Kayser et al. (2005)
Europe Hungary 53 NA 0.00 56.6 Battaglia et al. (2008)
Europe Poland 99 NA 0.00 56.6 Battaglia et al. (2008)
Europe Poland Polish 55 NA NA 56.4 Semino et al. (2000)
Europe Belarus 267 NA 0.00 54.7 Underhill et al. (2014)
Europe Ukraine Ukrainian 50 NA NA 54.0 Semino et al. (2000)
Europe Russia Kursk region Russian 40 NA 0.00 52.5 Mirabal et al. (2009)
North Asia Russia (Altai Republic) Southern Altaians (Kulada) 46 NA NA 52.2 Kharkov et al. (2007)
Europe - Ashkenazi Levite 60 NA 0.00 51.7 Behar et al. (2003)
Central Asia Afghanistan Pashtuns 49 NA NA 51.02 Haber et al. (2012)
Europe Belorussia 306 NA 0.33 51.0 Behar et al. (2003)
South Asia India Indo-European Middle Caste 48 NA NA 50.4 Sengupta et al. (2005)
Europe Ukraine 92 NA 0.00 50.0 Battaglia et al. (2008)
North Asia Russia (Altai Republic) Northern Altaians (Gorno-Altaisk) 20 NA NA 50.0 Kharkov et al. (2007)

@Atanz

You are getting hyper here. We dont claim what we are not. There was no genetic survey in BD ever. You are talking here based on wiki and Indian survey may be. All submitted in the paper is about the foreign migration and how people converted. We will be happy to be Chinese, Adivashi, Central Asian, South Asian etc

 

[Kinetic]

@Kinetic

If Muslims have higher birth rates than Hindus then that will change the political map of India. Pro-Muslim parties will win more elections than Hindu centric parties. It may take decades but you will see provinces that were Hindu majority begin to become Muslim majority or at least majority-minority.

But GoI is trying hard to control population explosion. It will be controlled. We have so many, not any more (both Hindus or Muslims), thanks.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

I think most South Asian's have this phenotype as the base. Indian Congress man from Chattisgarh.

and then this has been mixed with either West Asian or East Asian to produce the differant blends of people in South Asia like Punjabi, Kashmiri, Bihari, Gujrati, Tamil, Bengali.

My honest opinion on Bengali is most of their stock is Mr Karma, mixed with East Chinese a a tiny drop of West Asian. This mixture than changes across South Asia although you always get small number of variables who are well off the median.

 

[Kinetic]

You are getting hyper here. We dont claim what we are not. There was no genetic survey in BD ever. You are talking here based on wiki and Indian survey may be. All submitted in the paper is about the foreign migration and how people converted. We will be happy to be Chinese, Adivashi, Central Asian, South Asian etc

Article clearly states that 20% are descendants of Central Asian, 50% mixed and 30% local converts.

What happened to becoming 70% Central Asian and mix? see your own post. You still can post pics of masses in BD! lol





I don't understand what is wrong to being indigenous other than Central asian/ turkish / arabic!!! What the hell wrong with these guys!!!

I think most South Asian's have this phenotype as the base. Indian Congress man from Chattisgarh.

and then this has been mixed with either West Asian or East Asian to produce the differant blends of people in South Asia like Punjabi, Kashmiri, Bihari, Gujrati, Tamil, Bengali.

My honest opinion on Bengali is most of their stock is Mr Karma, mixed with East Chinese a a tiny drop of West Asian. This mixture than changes across South Asia although you always get small number of variables who are well off the median.

Well said.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Non of this is absolute scientific proof. I also take Wiki with caution as it is highly subject to being influenced. However I think as a general discussion we all can agree that there are wide variations even if we share lot in common.

But we all agree non of us is a Arab !

 

[bongbang]

What happened to becoming 70% Central Asian and mix? see your own post.





I don't understand what is wrong to being indigenous other than Central asian/ turkish / arabic!!! What the hell wrong with these guys!!!

That is 80% and assumed by someone stated in the article. 50% mixed + 30% converts total 80% at least have roots here.

So, as we are now mixtures, how we can
say, which race or races, we really belong to. This is why, A.A. Ghuznavi said that in
1901, 20% of Muslims were descendants of foreign settlers, 50% were mixtures of
foreign blood and 30% converts.

 

[Kinetic]

But we all agree non of us is a Arab !

blasphemy!

 

[Indus Pakistan]

I think this South Asian guy is 80% West Asian and 20% Mr Karma. What you guy's think?