QUAD, Pakistan and China

[Zarvan]

I am not great at writing articles or starting threads based on my opinion so forgive my mistakes. So lets start.

QUAD have become a reality. Right now the countries in it are USA, Australia, Japan, and India. Soon South Korea can or will join it. And although Indonesia plans to stay neutral but it has serious issues with China also. In fact even Vietnam can jump in and become part of QUAD. In short China is getting surrounded. Yes China has huge Navy and Air Force, still its enemies are no small powers. They are huge powers with huge budgets and have the will to spend on defence and are determined take on China. To counter this threat China needs allies, and let's be frank, right now China has only one true ally and in fact always had only one ally or let say a strategic ally which is Pakistan.

Pakistan is not only the flagship country for China's belt and road initiative but also a strong military ally of China. In the past our defence corporation was limited to Air Force and Army mainly. But due to CPEC we have started to focus on our Navy also. But due to QUAD, China is getting surrounded and one of the main country part of QUAD is our arch rival India. Therefore China's best bet to counter QUAD or at least taking India out of picture is to help Pakistan improve its Navy. Yes 4 Type 54 A and 8 submarines are great start, but to keep India busy on our side we would need much bigger Navy. Even Ballistic Missile carrying nuclear submarines and Destroyers like Type 52 D. A very strong Pakistan Navy is must to keep China's energy routes open, specially the one in Persian region.

@Rashid Mahmood @Horus @Tipu7 @Areesh @Arsalan @ajpirzada @Horus @SQ8 @Windjammer @Dazzler

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

A good summary. You should write more. Practice makes a man perfect....

 

[VCheng]

I am not great at writing articles or starting threads based on my opinion so forgive my mistakes. So lets start.

QUAD have become a reality. Right now the countries in it are USA, Australia, Japan, and India. Soon South Korea can or will join it. And although Indonesia plans to stay neutral but it has serious issues with China also. In fact even Vietnam come jump in and become part of QUAD. In short China is getting surrounded. Yes China has huge Navy and Air Force, still its enemies are no small powers. They are huge powers with huge budgets and have the will to spend on defence and are determined take on China. To counter this threat China needs allies, and let's be frank, right now China has only one true ally and in fact always had only one ally or let say a strategic ally which is Pakistan.

Pakistan is not only the flagship country for China's belt and road initiative but also a strong military ally of China. In the past our defence corporation was limited to Air Force and Army mainly. But due to CPEC we have started to focus on our Navy also. But due to QUAD, China is getting surrounded and one of the main country part of QUAD is our arch rival India. Therefore China's best bet to counter QUAD or at least taking India out of picture is to help Pakistan improve its Navy. Yes 4 Type 54 A and 8 submarines are great start, but to keep India busy on our side we would need much bigger Navy. Even Ballistic Missile carrying nuclear submarines and Destroyers like Type 52 D. A very strong Pakistan Navy is must to keep China's energy route from open specially the one in Persian region.

@Rashid Mahmood @Horus @Tipu7 @Areesh @Arsalan @ajpirzada @Horus @SQ8 @Windjammer @Dazzler

Great idea, but who will bear the costs for developing and then maintaining a very strong Pakistan Navy as you suggest, and under what terms? Nothing is for free in international geopolitics.

 

[jupiter2007]

As of now it's just chest thumping and posturing, and nothing more. I would like to see how Saudi Arabia and UAE will help QUAD in the long run. Saudi Arabia just rescue Austrialia by buying 660,000 tons of Barley after Australia-China trade dispute.
I think we will be ok as long as we stay the course of building infrastructure, improving economy, paying off our debts and focus on our foreign policy.

 

[waz]

South Korea will not join QUAD and has actually threatened to pull out of various pacts over its high tensions with Japan.
QUAD isn’t a feasible pact, when nations within it have multiple disputes with their own neighbours, who ironically want to form a front against China who bullies neighbours from their own perspective.
Like I’ve stated;
Australia too small to fight.
Japan too old to fight.
India too many to fight.
US can it really be bothered to fight.

 

[Saudang]

Quad is not to fight china in a direct conflict but to keep china in check. With quad shaping up, soon china will have combined enemy spread across its land and sea borders.

China has a formidable navy to challenge anyone close to its coast, but its still far away from challenging anyone beyond 1st island chain, where QUAD will strangle her

 

[IblinI]

Quad is not to fight china in a direct conflict but to keep china in check. With quad shaping up, soon china will have combined enemy spread across its land and sea borders.

China has a formidable navy to challenge anyone close to its coast, but its still far away from challenging anyone beyond 1st island chain, where QUAD will strangle her

We have came a long way, Obama's return to Asia policy, TPP, Trump admin, South China sea crisis 2016,Sino Jap diaoyu island incident and the recent 2020 corona virus crisis, for every and each, ppl shouting that China is doomed but we are still here.
We all know rise without tension/threat is impossible, thanks for every rival that helped us advancing.

 

[Neurath]

This article describes the geopolitical situation for China and Pakistan in a somewhat grim situation.

Much of the Arab world has been dropped by Biden, including the giants the UAE and Saudi Arabia, who will probably drift back closer towards Pakistan and become a part of the Chinese coalition. China has invested heavily in NEOM and Saudi Arabia's efforts to change their economy from an oil based one. They have also invested heavily in the UAE as well.
The Arabs' entrance in the Chinese coalition will probably result in the cooling down between their relations with Turkey, which we can already see in the form of Turkish drones being sold to KSA. Slowly but surely it will all come together.
The Chinese will have allies in the middle east, and central asia and russia are already covered. China's only problem will be India, and the far east. The best strategy would be to knock out India early with a direct conflict with the help of Pakistan, and bring them to the negotiating table, and then turn their attention East all the while developing their air force and navy to match those of their enemies.

 

[peagle]

I am not great at writing articles or starting threads based on my opinion so forgive my mistakes. So lets start.

QUAD have become a reality. Right now the countries in it are USA, Australia, Japan, and India. Soon South Korea can or will join it. And although Indonesia plans to stay neutral but it has serious issues with China also. In fact even Vietnam come jump in and become part of QUAD. In short China is getting surrounded. Yes China has huge Navy and Air Force, still its enemies are no small powers. They are huge powers with huge budgets and have the will to spend on defence and are determined take on China. To counter this threat China needs allies, and let's be frank, right now China has only one true ally and in fact always had only one ally or let say a strategic ally which is Pakistan.

Pakistan is not only the flagship country for China's belt and road initiative but also a strong military ally of China. In the past our defence corporation was limited to Air Force and Army mainly. But due to CPEC we have started to focus on our Navy also. But due to QUAD, China is getting surrounded and one of the main country part of QUAD is our arch rival India. Therefore China's best bet to counter QUAD or at least taking India out of picture is to help Pakistan improve its Navy. Yes 4 Type 54 A and 8 submarines are great start, but to keep India busy on our side we would need much bigger Navy. Even Ballistic Missile carrying nuclear submarines and Destroyers like Type 52 D. A very strong Pakistan Navy is must to keep China's energy route from open specially the one in Persian region.

@Rashid Mahmood @Horus @Tipu7 @Areesh @Arsalan @ajpirzada @Horus @SQ8 @Windjammer @Dazzler

In proposing Pakistan as an ally in competition to the Quad, which potentially is a powerhouse, what in your opinion does Pakistan have to offer?
What can it bring to the table?

Right now, our capabilities are limited, but please expand on what is Pakistan's potential.
Rather than soundbites, let us also see do we even have potential or are we stuck in soundbites.
Strong Army, Airforce, developing Navy, Nuclear weapons, Missiles, but

The above is a focal point for other capabilities,
Whats are those other capabilities?

 

[Chhatrapati]

QUAD is not a war grouping that has attacking China in mind. Fundamentally it's an economic alliance with security in the backburner. If anyone bothered to see what transpired in the recent meet has been more about economics rather than security.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

I am not great at writing articles or starting threads based on my opinion so forgive my mistakes. So lets start.

QUAD have become a reality. Right now the countries in it are USA, Australia, Japan, and India. Soon South Korea can or will join it. And although Indonesia plans to stay neutral but it has serious issues with China also. In fact even Vietnam come jump in and become part of QUAD. In short China is getting surrounded. Yes China has huge Navy and Air Force, still its enemies are no small powers. They are huge powers with huge budgets and have the will to spend on defence and are determined take on China. To counter this threat China needs allies, and let's be frank, right now China has only one true ally and in fact always had only one ally or let say a strategic ally which is Pakistan.

Pakistan is not only the flagship country for China's belt and road initiative but also a strong military ally of China. In the past our defence corporation was limited to Air Force and Army mainly. But due to CPEC we have started to focus on our Navy also. But due to QUAD, China is getting surrounded and one of the main country part of QUAD is our arch rival India. Therefore China's best bet to counter QUAD or at least taking India out of picture is to help Pakistan improve its Navy. Yes 4 Type 54 A and 8 submarines are great start, but to keep India busy on our side we would need much bigger Navy. Even Ballistic Missile carrying nuclear submarines and Destroyers like Type 52 D. A very strong Pakistan Navy is must to keep China's energy route from open specially the one in Persian region.

@Rashid Mahmood @Horus @Tipu7 @Areesh @Arsalan @ajpirzada @Horus @SQ8 @Windjammer @Dazzler

South Korea will not join due to territorial dispute with Japan. Vietnam won't join because they are commie. Indonesia won't join because Indonesia is far from China.

 

[araz]

Great idea, but who will bear the costs for developing and then maintaining a very strong Pakistan Navy as you suggest, and under what terms? Nothing is for free in international geopolitics.

And also does Pakistan want to become/ can afford to become embroiled in this fight of the big fish. This is a difficult juncture and Pakistani help and its nature needs to be determined.
Secondly why would we only concentrate on the Navy alone when we have nearly 90 obsete air platforms, and most importantly a country in financial doldrum of a nature which will surely bankrupt us.
Lastly Naval expansion is not only platform related but also manpower related. The latter would need to be trained and this will take time effort and money. In the context of impending disaster how would that be rlevant? I suspect we will need at least a decade to rain the staff to man the platforms/we already have ordered so how will we manage to get the rest of the staff?
So yes QUAD is an existential threat for Pakistan as well. However we need to ensure that we do not get embroiled in another war not of our own making and if we do, we get enough out of it to matter to us. The immediate need would be economic as these pressures will cripple us long before any war. Military hardware may be a secondary need. However we need another alliance to counter this one. Whether China can convince Russia to join in or not remains to be seen. The other potential allies could be Turkey and Iran. The repurcussions of Iran joining in will cause the whole middle East into turmoil and we need to study this very carefully. We also need to look at what Iran will actually bring to the fray and whether its inclusion will be productive or counter productive.
A

 

[Zarvan]

Great idea, but who will bear the costs for developing and then maintaining a very strong Pakistan Navy as you suggest, and under what terms? Nothing is for free in international geopolitics.

You have to start. You can't let the gap between Pakistani Navy and India more then 3 times. We can't allow Indian Navy to be 4 or 5 or 6 times bigger then us.

And also does Pakistan want to become/ can afford to become embroiled in this fight of the big fish. This is a difficult juncture and Pakistani help and its nature needs to be determined.
Secondly why would we only concentrate on the Navy alone when we have nearly 90 obsete air platforms, and most importantly a country in financial doldrum of a nature which will surely bankrupt us.
Lastly Naval expansion is not only platform related but also manpower related. The latter would need to be trained and this will take time effort and money. In the context of impending disaster how would that be rlevant? I suspect we will need at least a decade to rain the staff to man the platforms/we already have ordered so how will we manage to get the rest of the staff?
So yes QUAD is an existential threat for Pakistan as well. However we need to ensure that we do not get embroiled in another war not of our own making and if we do, we get enough out of it to matter to us. The immediate need would be economic as these pressures will cripple us long before any war. Military hardware may be a secondary need. However we need another alliance to counter this one. Whether China can convince Russia to join in or not remains to be seen. The other potential allies could be Turkey and Iran. The repurcussions of Iran joining in will cause the whole middle East into turmoil and we need to study this very carefully. We also need to look at what Iran will actually bring to the fray and whether its inclusion will be productive or counter productive.
A

We already are embroiled with India. I am not saying go after Quad. We should not what I am saying is developing a Navy so big with China's help that Indian Navy focus and primary threat for Indian Navy remains Pakistan Navy. And that would help China focus on other nations in Quad.

 

[airmarshal]

China can entice Australia out of the Quad by offering it its market. China is the number 1 market for Australian coal and iron ore.

Other than India or Japan, there are no countries which China cant pull out of alliance. USA cant match what China can offer. USA is a slowly dying power and I m not saying it out of wishful thinking.

 

[Jobless Jack]

I am not great at writing articles or starting threads based on my opinion so forgive my mistakes. So lets start.

QUAD have become a reality. Right now the countries in it are USA, Australia, Japan, and India. Soon South Korea can or will join it. And although Indonesia plans to stay neutral but it has serious issues with China also. In fact even Vietnam come jump in and become part of QUAD. In short China is getting surrounded. Yes China has huge Navy and Air Force, still its enemies are no small powers. They are huge powers with huge budgets and have the will to spend on defence and are determined take on China. To counter this threat China needs allies, and let's be frank, right now China has only one true ally and in fact always had only one ally or let say a strategic ally which is Pakistan.

Pakistan is not only the flagship country for China's belt and road initiative but also a strong military ally of China. In the past our defence corporation was limited to Air Force and Army mainly. But due to CPEC we have started to focus on our Navy also. But due to QUAD, China is getting surrounded and one of the main country part of QUAD is our arch rival India. Therefore China's best bet to counter QUAD or at least taking India out of picture is to help Pakistan improve its Navy. Yes 4 Type 54 A and 8 submarines are great start, but to keep India busy on our side we would need much bigger Navy. Even Ballistic Missile carrying nuclear submarines and Destroyers like Type 52 D. A very strong Pakistan Navy is must to keep China's energy routes open, specially the one in Persian region.

@Rashid Mahmood @Horus @Tipu7 @Areesh @Arsalan @ajpirzada @Horus @SQ8 @Windjammer @Dazzler

Quad is weak.

USA has internal problems

India has internal problems

Japan can hold its own

And as for australia lets face it, australia will be hilariously caught with its pants down

So ya on paper quad is strong but practically without the USA, its just a bunch of gossiping bitches