PTM Watch

[pzfz]

Only genuine case they had was of Naqeeb murder. But a single murder is simply not enough to run a movement against state. So they brought everything from missing persons to IEDs to IDPs. They keep on changing goalpost

That is why I said instead of ignoring them we should face them directly. Bring them on media. Expose them. They have no agenda. Whatever narrative they have is very weak. Won't stand an hour interview. Manzoor Pashteen was badly exposed when he gave interview to Zarra Khoro in Dawn News. BLA/TTP/MQM had stronger and better narrative than these guys.

The only genuine case where the father of Naqeeb doesn't attend their max 2 grand rallies? Their other issues are red-herrings to distract from the fact that these secularists were the prime proponents of war in waziristan and its associated fallout (drones, ieds, idps).

I don't agree with bringing them on media. Those that support them (on twitter) will do regardless even when they've been shown the facts. Media isn't obligated to cover every small-time gathering. Freaking rizvi had more protesters did that mean lend them a sympathetic ear? No! Rizvi, even today, could bring more people to protest in waziristan than these surkhas.

As for action, there has been clumsy action against certain actors of ptm and yet Pak nor its army have gone to hell in the eyes of Pashtuns. Nor will they when the rest of the assorted characters are charged and convicted. Pak Pashtuns will cheer on as they've been demanding action against these bacha bazi gul marjans.

 

[sparten]

How long did it take the state to take care of TLP when they actually got pissed?
15 minutes.

 

[__Jihadi__]

http://thelondonpost.net/baluchistan-terrorism-nawaz-sharif-really-an-indian-raw-asset-2/

 

[HRK]

Disjointed thinking had you bring up irrelevant topics like elite and real concerns.

first thing my reference of elite appeasement is taken out of context pls read that sentence again ..... and for real concern part could you deny Naqeeb issue ...??
so plz once again debate in context in which things were said not on your perception about my post

meray bhai what is your dying concern about proving them right or wrong? What are they gonna do if they're proven "right"?

Proving them right will give birth of ideology which will effect number of decades of Pakistan politically same as

Proving Mujib right in the election of 70 gave birth to BD

Proving MQM right in 90s kept Karachi in disturbance till 2015

Proving Akbar Bughti Martyred for Baloch cause is still giving birth to Baloch Terrorist organisations

Why don't you people understand PTM is not an isolated issue, it is created to influence Afghan Great game; till recently we were facing terrorism under the cover of religious ideologies now you want to prove PTM propaganda right by using Army against them which may result a Liberal Terrorist organisation supported by west at the name Human right of liberal and enlighten Pukhtoon Faction ???? same as Baloch organisations ....???

What direction you want Pakistan to take a direction of perpetual fight or Political stability by resolving issue by civilian institutes using political and legal course ....???

its the duty of the national security apparatus = the establishment, if you will.

Army is not the only institute of national security apparatus

Who cares about propaganda?

Foreign forces sitting right next to our Border ....

These anti-Pak elements will move on to the next campaign while vilifying Pakistan and creating hurdles in its steps towards stability.

yaap .... therefore I ask you why play under their strategy .....??? Why not create your own and make them play as per your wishes ....??

Have you people forget Pukhtoonistan and Pakhtoon Nationalism in KPK always surface when anti-Pakistan elements come in power in Afghanistan ....???

is this even a new trend ....??? we all have witness this past as well

in past it was NAP later changed into ANP ..... so PTM or no PTM our problem of disturbance in KPK is related to Afghanistan, resolve Afghanistan as per our interest, elements like PTM will die here

These campaigns do affect the overall image of Pak and its investment climate. If that's not the concern of the 'world's no. 1 agency' than I don't know what is.

agreed but military or violent action by civilian agencies against a Political clout will effect it more ..... so tolerate them till they commit blunder out of desperation and remain assured they will

And how does putting a subversive movement down through legal means equate to "solving" it with GUN?

who is opposing legal action against them.... I am just against the idea of putting military against them in any manner .... let the civilian institutes deal with them Army should only support them if and when required.

How long did it take the state to take care of TLP when they actually got pissed?
15 minutes.

exactly .... it was Punjab Police who did the job ....

 

[Abu Zarrar]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1085290718661353472

 

[Path-Finder]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1085198500101533696

 

[pzfz]

Proving them right will give birth of ideology which will effect number of decades of Pakistan politically same as defeatist mindset

Proving Mujib right in the election of 70 gave birth to BD appeasement leading up to the elections led to bd. Where were the geniuses at the establishment who couldn't see or tell that the soviets were inculcating? indians training? Heavy handed approach afterwards was a direct result of a lack of sustained and comprehensive strategy beforehand.

Proving MQM right in 90s kept Karachi in disturbance till 2015 again appeasement of the highest order until the fat bastard in london finally came out with his anti-Pak speech. The establishment was twiddling its thumbs before.

Proving Akbar Bughti Martyred for Baloch cause is still giving birth to Baloch Terrorist organisations baloch terrorist orgs existed before bugti's killing. they were molly-coddled into putting down their weapons. The state pardoned most of their actions. Still hasn't made the existence and support they receive from afg a talking point in relations with kabul.

Why don't you people understand PTM is not an isolated issue, it is created to influence Afghan Great game; till recently we were facing terrorism under the cover of religious ideologies now you want to prove PTM propaganda right by using Army against them which may result a Liberal Terrorist organisation supported by west at the name Human right of liberal and enlighten Pukhtoon Faction ???? same as Baloch organisations ....??? Oh, we understand alright, it's you who is continually excuses and apologizing for the incompetence in dealing with said 'great game'. Why always responding? Why no proactive approach? Why no firmness?

You're scaremongering does not stand up to scrutiny. Pashtuns are loathe to support a secularist/communist agenda. The only value this particular 'movement' has is for the external enemies is its nuisance value.

What direction you want Pakistan to take a direction of perpetual fight or Political stability by resolving issue by civilian institutes using political and legal course ....??? Maybe the direction of using political and legal course? Where are the cases registered against these refugees and communists? The problem is that there has been NO ACTION by state - policing, political, or legal - nothing.


Army is not the only institute of national security apparatus

Foreign forces sitting right next to our Border ....

yaap .... therefore I ask you why play under their strategy .....??? Why not create your own and make them play as per your wishes ....?? Yeah why not? That's what I want to see. Where are Pak's own creations?

Have you people forget Pukhtoonistan and Pakhtoon Nationalism in KPK always surface when anti-Pakistan elements come in power in Afghanistan ....??? Everyone realizes that. How about doing something about those elements instead of talking endlessly about theories and reactions and great games.

is this even a new trend ....??? we all have witness this past as well

in past it was NAP later changed into ANP ..... so PTM or no PTM our problem of disturbance in KPK is related to Afghanistan, resolve Afghanistan as per our interest, elements like PTM will die here if the state/establishment got tough with them instead of integrating them Pak wouldn't have this reoccurring problem.


agreed but military or violent action by civilian agencies against a Political clout will effect it more ..... so tolerate them till they commit blunder out of desperation and remain assured they will tolerating is what has gotten you to this state and tolerating them is what they're counting on. keep on tolerating and waiting.


who is opposing legal action against them.... I am just against the idea of putting military against them in any manner .... let the civilian institutes deal with them Army should only support them if and when required. no one's talking about sending a brigade after these desperados. Arrest them, book them, prosecute them. Police, media, courts, etc.


exactly .... it was Punjab Police who did the job ....police is part of the state apparatus. what's stopping KP police from doing the same? That's exactly what people want to see just as in tlp's case

You're still going off on a tangent with the "real issues". They're just excuses.

My responses in red.

 

[HRK]

you know now I cant even say that we should agree to disagree .... because after reading this post of yours I am still trying to figure out you posted all this in disagreement or because of misunderstanding of my post .....???

Now response to current post
What I said in post:1

who is opposing legal action against them.... I am just against the idea of putting military against them in any manner .... let the civilian institutes deal with them Army should only support them if and when required.

your response

no one's talking about sending a brigade after these desperados. Arrest them, book them, prosecute them. Police, media, courts, etc.

What I said in post:2

exactly .... it was Punjab Police who did the job ....

your response

police is part of the state apparatus. what's stopping KP police from doing the same? That's exactly what people want to see just as in tlp's case

while in the very first post of mine I wrote:

Now we all sharing the same concern about the PTM as it seems they have wasted the given opportunity so they may soon face the same fate as of TLP or MQM

This part I don't know why you just ignored .... ???

So what different point are you making other than showing misunderstanding the words "Appeasement" which was used by you first(see here), and in response I describe my understanding of this approach of appeasement in different context and historic background

It appears to me you are posting under certain perception about me or my post rather comprehending my stance, therefore consider it my last response to you on this unnecessary debate.

BTW Police is NOT a STATE Institution its a GOVERNMENT Institution, state institution are those which are formed by Constitution of Pakistan like Judiciary, Parliament, Defence forces

 

[Safriz]

 

[Abu Zarrar]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1085918576329007104

 

[Path-Finder]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1085878681241862144

https://twitter.com/x/status/1085887466870050816

 

[Mrc]

This guy is a thorough gentleman and true patriot

 

[Path-Finder]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1086211147328561152

 

[Abu Zarrar]

 

[Abu Zarrar]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1090097187973943297