PTI's Azadi March 14th August 2014 l Updates and debate.
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Jzaib
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The grandson of Allama Iqbal, Waleed iqbal, standing next to Imran Khan. Waleed was one of our candidates from Lahore pic.twitter.com/wjkI2Jp3mH
Dubious
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1 min people say we have no funds (for building dams or improving sewage and drainage) then 1 place you say funds shouldnt be?
We were talking about IDP not polio...If you want to jump to Polio you do know its a bacteria that we are fighting....and that pathetic drainage we have thanks to the backward mentality of whose gonna bother redoing the whole 1st century AD drainage is what is causing us to not be able to get rid off the damned disease!
As for funds for polio...its not like no one tried...we all tried now what someone needs to do is get a pathan from amongst them and make him/ her/ them explain to them the dangers of the disease...anyone voicing out against should be allowed to get them and their whole family with a live jab of the bacteria so they can be an example of what it can do!
I think you are confused! I said I am not against LOAN as in the loan itself BUT MISUSE OF THESE never ending loans!
We have taken soo many since the beginning of NS term....anyone has a count as to how much...where have they gone? Do you see anything where it was "utilized" in? Something that can help us in education, healthwise (including proper drainage), a step towards electricity or gas??
Yea the polio drops were made by a Jewish American dont take them! What the hell?!
As for good move...well why is NS now begging for donations / foreign aid for IDP? To boost his campaign? Tell me why was it wrong when IK wanted to get foreign aid (from Pakistanis overseas) but it is ok if NS does it?
You are confusing funds/ loans/ foreign aid: Funds can be any form of money be it given or loaned...
Loans are to be paid back..
Most foreign aid comes with no strings attached as it is collected by bodies who collect donations!
I dont think that...But I would like everything transparent as to how much he has taken ...how much CM has taken in his 7 yrs and where each and every paisa went! And a full analysis if the projects they did could have been done any cheaper...why they used so and so materials over so and so....full planing and all payments...
Why we need to know why pathetic material was used in a road made abt 6 mths back and which now looks like there is the blackhole sitting on it!
People keep saying paisa nai hai...well if you can pay for poor quality BS...I suggest you keep the money and wait for it to grow or invest in something that will give returns and go back to the previous project when you can afford something of good quality!
I live in south of Punjab...For past 6 years eveytime I visit it ...I see the roads torn apart! Nothing new I guess...the 1st time...some bastard forgot to put in pipes then after throwing in the pipelines they made the road again only to tear it open 3 mths later coz cables werent thrown in and then sealed again only to be torn again for sewage fixing (may i ask who planned this shit?) Dont cables, pipes and sewage come in when you are building the roads not 1 by 1? Why wasnt that contractor sued or dumped? and guess what those roads got demolished in the previous flood and the same cycle took place using the same contractors! May I ask are other contractors dead in Pakistan?
THIS is what I mean by where the loans are heading!
Give him a full 5 yrs to make sure no road is made of proper materials or ever made even in 6yrs ...
Mind you many took their anger out...this is why we oppose rigging coz even out anger was not answered to!
No one defeated PPP...they are taking turns...70 dishes have called him back! And NS adjusted that maximum rule so he can come back for more than 3 terms!
What right path please elaborate?
PMLN maybe in federal for 14 mths this time...but most of the roads (except motorway) that they built before have holes large enough to build a house on!
So tell me how different is his roads now? We saw Lahore portholes..thanks to the floods which showcased his 14mths of failure!
As for PTI it was given the most backward district..You said yourself how they view polio...you also talked about joining TTP instantly...a threat Punjab never faced! Now tell me for such a district you are comparing 14mths there as to Punjab which never had these problems and 14mths there....wait CM of Punjab has been CM what 7 yrs? So you are actually trying to compare 14mths of a backward district with 7 yrs of a district that has different challenges! How fair is that?
I dont want to wait for 5 yrs and see more roads being build this time metro....which will eat up all the funds from maintenance and still look like some sort of backward shithole!
You dont call temporary crap as development! Something that doesnt last 6mths is not included in development!
@Leader @Jazzbot @Jay12345 @balixd @Al Bhatti @Hyperion @metalfalcon @Ahmad1996 @Norwegian and @TankMan can anyone answer this one^ Which one of you posted that khattak goes back to KPK during the day? Or was it from my fb?
dude are you even reading what I wrote ya aywien free thanks?
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Leader
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Dubious
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Ahmad1996
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If you are talking about 5 years, then I think PTI is doing a much better job by spending and improving education. I have met educated people of KPK and mashallah most of them are very bright and brilliant students.
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It is shameful that certain government departments, specifically FIA, haven't been paid salaries for past 2 months because Nawaz can't be arsed to sign off the release of salaries!
But I'm sure Noora fans will cook up a valid reason for it! Dharnas started in August but departments were not paid July salaries and many spent Eid without a pay. This is the disgusting state of PMLN rule!
But I'm sure Noora fans will cook up a valid reason for it! Dharnas started in August but departments were not paid July salaries and many spent Eid without a pay. This is the disgusting state of PMLN rule!
syedali73
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Wow, this Mr. Murtaza Ali Shah is one hell of a lier. A true Jeoian.
VCheng
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Some points to ponder in this article:
A new regime change model? - Newspaper - DAWN.COM
A new regime change model?
By Babar Sattar
The unfortunate reality is that no one seems willing to learn anything from the mess our power elite has landed us in. We are unable to get out of the vicious cycle because we don’t want to.
Despite its failure multiple times, every 10 years or so we rehash the same khaki-backed saviour programme to address our multifarious challenges.
As Raza Rabbani candidly acknowledged in parliament, what we are witnessing is another manifestation of the perennial conflict for ascendancy within our power elite.
Cynics speculated that the Pakistan Tehreek-i-Insaf (PTI) and the Pakistan Awami Tehreek (PAT) marches must be khaki-inspired (even before Javed Hashmi spoke) because khaki intervention was the only means available for overthrowing the PML-N regime and bringing in the ‘revolution’.
During the ’90s, multiple factors allowed khakis the top slot within the power pyramid: 58(2b) and a president who could sack a government for corruption or breakdown of constitutional machinery; a judiciary that would sign on the dotted line; and easy to manufacture forward blocs.
Much has changed since the ’90s: 58(2b) is gone and the prime minister dissolving the National Assembly is the only constitutional route to mid-term polls; with Article 63-A (that disqualifies a parliamentarian who defects during a vote of confidence etc) and a national consensus against turncoats, manufacturing forward blocs isn’t as easy or useful; the judiciary survived a coup (or emergency-plus, if you like) in 2007 and since then ‘PCO judge’ has come to be recognised as a four-letter word; and the vibrant 24/7 electronic media shaping opinion is hard to control.
Our mainstream parties essentially concluded in the Charter of Democracy that even while playing dirty they would stop short of sleeping with the khakis to overthrow a government. The PPP imposed governor’s rule in Punjab in 2009 and the PML-N ignited the ‘memogate’ affair, but the khakis were kept at bay.
The joint parliamentary session is also meant to reaffirm allegiance to the same ‘code’. What has created a window for the khakis is that PTI, a party that didn’t partake in the ’90s politics, probably finds this code an undue restraint on its ambition.
For simplicity, let’s distinguish the three stages of influence or control by the khakis: Stage 1 where the khakis retain monopoly over key areas of state policies from behind the curtain; Stage 2 where regime change can be effected without direct intervention; and Stage 3 where the khakis assume direct control of the state.
Under Gen Kayani, the khakis seemed content with Stage 1 presence: absolute control over national security and foreign policy, while allowing civilians to make hay within their limited domestic political domain.
Let us recall that the PPP regime also had ideas about fixing the civil-military imbalance at first. Post-Mumbai we saw the scuffle over ISI’s control and then the skies caving in over Kerry-Lugar’s content.
Things stabilised once the areas of control, influence and interest of the khakis and civilian government became relatively well-defined and respected.
Even later in the day, Hussain Haqqani had to be sacrificed during memogate when the khakis felt he had strayed past the ring-fenced civilian domain.
With the Musharraf trial, independent ideas about Pakistan’s foreign policy towards India, Afghanistan and Middle East and the attempt to rein in the ISI using Geo, Nawaz Sharif not only threatened to disturb the Stage 1 equilibrium but also committed the unforgivable sin of creating an impression that khaki leadership is no longer ‘untouchable’.
This generated anger and probably also cultivated the sense that securing Stage 1 equilibrium with the Nawaz regime might not be possible without acquiring Stage 2 capability.
But how do you effect regime change without enabling constitutional provisions or an obliging judiciary ready to endorse a Bangladesh Model? Fellow columnist Abbas Nasir wonders if dharnas are the new 58(2b). They probably are, with two provisos.
One, agitators must have such overwhelming numbers that it can be claimed with some credibility that citizens have spoken against the regime and repressing them through use of force might ignite civil war. And two, the general in charge must be willing to move to Stage 3 if the threat of use of force doesn’t work.
Had PTI and PAT been able to bring even half a million people to parade on Constitution Avenue and attack buildings at will, Nawaz Sharif might have been history.
Had Javed Hashmi not added to the speculation that PTI/PAT are fomenting an ‘on-demand revolution’, Nawaz Sharif might have been history.
Had there been a general at the helm with the inclination, ambition and nerve to overthrow the government, suspend the Constitution, dismiss the judges, shut down the media and repress civil society, Nawaz Sharif might have been history.
Five to ten thousand baton-wielding revolutionaries pose no existential threat to a government, unless the arm of the government meant to enforce the government’s writ assigns to itself the task of creating a level playing field between the government and the street protesters challenging it.
Post the corps commanders’ conference, ISPR seemed to be saying that if the government didn’t heed the protesters’ demands and used force against them, the military might need to intervene to satisfy ‘national aspirations’.
The real problem posed by a new mob-led and khaki-backed regime change model is not just that it contravenes black letter law, but also that it regurgitates a tried, tested and failed idea. This is no grand conspiracy theory.
Our generals (past and present) who have contributed to our prevalent notion of national interest must have believed that they were/are pursuing the best interest of Pakistan and its citizens.
But they have been proven wrong by our own history and the experience of other comparable states.
A country run on the basis of transient emotion can go nowhere. Our deeply entrenched civil-military conflict continues to polarise and consume us.
If over a span of 60 years our khaki-run political incubator couldn’t produce decent leadership, how will the next time be any different?
Our problems of governance, justice, tolerance and integrity can’t be sorted overnight and will keep throwing up opportunities for ‘saviours’.
Is there a way to convince the saviours that we don’t deserve to be saved?
The writer is a lawyer.
sattar@post.harvard.edu
Twitter: @babar_sattar
Published in Dawn, September 8th, 2014
A new regime change model? - Newspaper - DAWN.COM
A new regime change model?
By Babar Sattar
The unfortunate reality is that no one seems willing to learn anything from the mess our power elite has landed us in. We are unable to get out of the vicious cycle because we don’t want to.
Despite its failure multiple times, every 10 years or so we rehash the same khaki-backed saviour programme to address our multifarious challenges.
As Raza Rabbani candidly acknowledged in parliament, what we are witnessing is another manifestation of the perennial conflict for ascendancy within our power elite.
Cynics speculated that the Pakistan Tehreek-i-Insaf (PTI) and the Pakistan Awami Tehreek (PAT) marches must be khaki-inspired (even before Javed Hashmi spoke) because khaki intervention was the only means available for overthrowing the PML-N regime and bringing in the ‘revolution’.
During the ’90s, multiple factors allowed khakis the top slot within the power pyramid: 58(2b) and a president who could sack a government for corruption or breakdown of constitutional machinery; a judiciary that would sign on the dotted line; and easy to manufacture forward blocs.
Much has changed since the ’90s: 58(2b) is gone and the prime minister dissolving the National Assembly is the only constitutional route to mid-term polls; with Article 63-A (that disqualifies a parliamentarian who defects during a vote of confidence etc) and a national consensus against turncoats, manufacturing forward blocs isn’t as easy or useful; the judiciary survived a coup (or emergency-plus, if you like) in 2007 and since then ‘PCO judge’ has come to be recognised as a four-letter word; and the vibrant 24/7 electronic media shaping opinion is hard to control.
Our mainstream parties essentially concluded in the Charter of Democracy that even while playing dirty they would stop short of sleeping with the khakis to overthrow a government. The PPP imposed governor’s rule in Punjab in 2009 and the PML-N ignited the ‘memogate’ affair, but the khakis were kept at bay.
The joint parliamentary session is also meant to reaffirm allegiance to the same ‘code’. What has created a window for the khakis is that PTI, a party that didn’t partake in the ’90s politics, probably finds this code an undue restraint on its ambition.
For simplicity, let’s distinguish the three stages of influence or control by the khakis: Stage 1 where the khakis retain monopoly over key areas of state policies from behind the curtain; Stage 2 where regime change can be effected without direct intervention; and Stage 3 where the khakis assume direct control of the state.
Under Gen Kayani, the khakis seemed content with Stage 1 presence: absolute control over national security and foreign policy, while allowing civilians to make hay within their limited domestic political domain.
Let us recall that the PPP regime also had ideas about fixing the civil-military imbalance at first. Post-Mumbai we saw the scuffle over ISI’s control and then the skies caving in over Kerry-Lugar’s content.
Things stabilised once the areas of control, influence and interest of the khakis and civilian government became relatively well-defined and respected.
Even later in the day, Hussain Haqqani had to be sacrificed during memogate when the khakis felt he had strayed past the ring-fenced civilian domain.
With the Musharraf trial, independent ideas about Pakistan’s foreign policy towards India, Afghanistan and Middle East and the attempt to rein in the ISI using Geo, Nawaz Sharif not only threatened to disturb the Stage 1 equilibrium but also committed the unforgivable sin of creating an impression that khaki leadership is no longer ‘untouchable’.
This generated anger and probably also cultivated the sense that securing Stage 1 equilibrium with the Nawaz regime might not be possible without acquiring Stage 2 capability.
But how do you effect regime change without enabling constitutional provisions or an obliging judiciary ready to endorse a Bangladesh Model? Fellow columnist Abbas Nasir wonders if dharnas are the new 58(2b). They probably are, with two provisos.
One, agitators must have such overwhelming numbers that it can be claimed with some credibility that citizens have spoken against the regime and repressing them through use of force might ignite civil war. And two, the general in charge must be willing to move to Stage 3 if the threat of use of force doesn’t work.
Had PTI and PAT been able to bring even half a million people to parade on Constitution Avenue and attack buildings at will, Nawaz Sharif might have been history.
Had Javed Hashmi not added to the speculation that PTI/PAT are fomenting an ‘on-demand revolution’, Nawaz Sharif might have been history.
Had there been a general at the helm with the inclination, ambition and nerve to overthrow the government, suspend the Constitution, dismiss the judges, shut down the media and repress civil society, Nawaz Sharif might have been history.
Five to ten thousand baton-wielding revolutionaries pose no existential threat to a government, unless the arm of the government meant to enforce the government’s writ assigns to itself the task of creating a level playing field between the government and the street protesters challenging it.
Post the corps commanders’ conference, ISPR seemed to be saying that if the government didn’t heed the protesters’ demands and used force against them, the military might need to intervene to satisfy ‘national aspirations’.
The real problem posed by a new mob-led and khaki-backed regime change model is not just that it contravenes black letter law, but also that it regurgitates a tried, tested and failed idea. This is no grand conspiracy theory.
Our generals (past and present) who have contributed to our prevalent notion of national interest must have believed that they were/are pursuing the best interest of Pakistan and its citizens.
But they have been proven wrong by our own history and the experience of other comparable states.
A country run on the basis of transient emotion can go nowhere. Our deeply entrenched civil-military conflict continues to polarise and consume us.
If over a span of 60 years our khaki-run political incubator couldn’t produce decent leadership, how will the next time be any different?
Our problems of governance, justice, tolerance and integrity can’t be sorted overnight and will keep throwing up opportunities for ‘saviours’.
Is there a way to convince the saviours that we don’t deserve to be saved?
The writer is a lawyer.
sattar@post.harvard.edu
Twitter: @babar_sattar
Published in Dawn, September 8th, 2014
Marshmallow
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1000s of PTI supporters in a car rally from Bahria Town to Azadi Square. This rally was organized by PTI Social Media Team member Bilal Ahmed Raja. People are joining in masses day after day and this movement is growing, as Chairman Imran Khan said "There is no going back now without resignations of these Badshahs", nation has responded to the call and becoming part of Azadi March on daily basis.
err.. kuch sikho apnay Kaptaan say... hum nay har jana hai, hum nay har jana hai, papa kehtay hain rigging hogi, hum nay har jana hai... damag kha liya tha mera, roz aik hi rona dhona hota tha apka...
...those election threads gosh
Ahmad1996
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I don't know why our media is linking army to these protests if army wanted they would have brought 100k protestors or more, its really easy for army to raise this much people but IK has not been able to, if army wanted martial law would have been announced long ago, they got many chances but they didn't which clearly shows that there is no link to army.
VCheng
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Did you comprehend what the article says?
Ahmad1996
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I am not talking about this article though it does links the protests to ISI but I am talking in general.
VCheng
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I see. Perhaps you should try reading the article to understand what the media are actually saying. It will help your counter-arguments.
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